I'd have rather Pedo had gone and retained Sellar. Similar abilities but I reckon Sellar had more heart and desparation

Me too Bbo but Sellar was out of contract and Pedersen has two more years.

I cry every time I think of that deal.

Disappointed that Sellar has gone, I can understand why, but disappointed just the same. He seemed to be going alright for a while but just never came on as I hoped he would.

I have similar thoughts Robbie

I thought he had a good second half in 2012.

But this year he seemed to fall in a big hole.

I have a good feeling about Jetta under Roos. Glad we've kept him.

so do I, & so am I....

he IMO, is the responsible type that Roos will infect with confidence & belief... the stuff that was unfashionable when a young Jetta joined us.... I've always been on Nev's side.

I believe he can grow into a fine footballer, after his stalled development starts to grow again.

Me too Bbo but Sellar was out of contract and Pedersen has two more years.

I cry every time I think of that deal.

I just cried when I read your post, I'd wiped that out of my mind, thanks for reinstalling it od.

The only one that gives me a slight pause for thought on that list is Tynan.

my opinion is tynan has to overcome his insecurities to progress... my impressions from a few observations was he was a bit pretentious. un-confident in himself. you cannot fully focus on growing a footy career in the AFL, like that.

I wonder if the sacking will give him the wakeup call he needs, to drive him to overcome the things that stop him from personal growth. I hope so. I wonder if he'll be lucky enough to get a second chance at it as a rookie?

The fate of Jetta, Nicholosn, and the one we call Magner rests with the fate of The Trade & Free Agency Period.

They are not safe just yet, they must be cautious.

And I think we think that Magner has trade value - I will call Todd tomorrow and inform him that: 'lolz.'

I completely disagree with the point that 'you can't just have a best 22 and kids'. I think that is EXACTLY how to run the show in the current game.

A high-low approach to the salary cap, as it were. Make sure the team has a good core of reliable, high quality AFL players, then hve a steady churn of fresh draft picks as you look for new talent to continuously boost your list.

If you have an injury-ruined year, so be it, collect your earlier picks, move on. It's not like having three or four extra Joel MacDonalds in your team was going to win you the premiership that year. And if instead of those depth players you have one extra young gun on your list long-term, well, it's a pretty good deal.

But the super-years come when that core mostly stays on the field, and the churn of youngsters mean you have a bit of surprise packet talent coming through as well.

It's not a coincidence that Geelong, Hawthorn and Sydney all punched through for premierships in years where they got the 'bonus' ready to go elite players like Selwood, Rioli, and Hannebury. ven Collingwood took the extra step largely because a collection of young mids pushed to the next level at the same time.

That is how you keep the 'window' open - an elite core, then keep on trying to ride a wave of young talent that peaks together if you're lucky.

Maybe I'm just embittered by the fact that we missed out on Dylan Grimes for no reason except to give Newton a seventh year. But that is a salient example of what I'm talking about.

Thats 7 off the list plus one rookie. I wouldnt expect too many more. Jetta/Tapscott possibilities off the main list and Magner/Clisby off the rookie list maybe?

I agree Demon Dave, I think its trade time now.. then maybe 1, or 2 more, depending on numbers later on. we'll have to wait to see who's available in the pre season draft.

The fate of Jetta, Nicholosn, and the one we call Magner rests with the fate of The Trade & Free Agency Period.

They are not safe just yet, they must be cautious.

And I think we think that Magner has trade value - I will call Todd tomorrow and inform him that: 'lolz.'

Can you trade rookies?

Excuse my ignorance if wrong...but doesn't that mean Magner has to be upgraded off the rookie list as he's been on it for 2 yrs already?

I think Magner is still swinging, depends on who we pickup... goodluck jimmy.

Tom Couch would go down as the most pointless rookie pick in MFC history.

Exactly, anyone could see he wasn't AFL standard, so why didn't we rookie a player with at least 1 elite trait and work on the others.

Get this through your head, Roos and other coaches of a similar ilk such as Lyon love players who run and have discipline to do abasic job which fits into the structure.

One thing Nicho has is a tank which is to his advantage, players who can perform roles whilst getting occassional runs through the midfield as run with or just to give other mids a breather are a strong chance to at least be looked at or held over until after the trade period.

Spot on

I reckon Nicho has a year to improve his disposal skills & his decision making.

if magner get his senior spot, its his for 2.

Jetta is as honest a player as it comes... he'll improve under a man like Roos.

I feel sorry for Troy Davis.

Undoubtedly earned a senior spot after consistent performances in defence for Casey.

Inexplicably plays deep forward for the firsts.

Tries his guts out in the unfamiliar role with minimal opportunities.

Dropped and forgotten.

I hope he does well somewhere else. I reckon he might mirror Kyle Cheney's mighty effort as a fringe player in a ?premiership list.

Magner was upgraded to the senior list in August while Clark was placed on the long-term injury list.

He didn't play a senior game subsequent to that.

That tells me that he has been assessed as being capable of playing senior football and the club took the opportunity to see if the likes of Davis, Clisby and Jetta were worthwhile retaining, in lieu of playing him.

We now know the answer for Davis.

Our new coach is adamant about mid-fielders. He has shown his ability in the past to get the absolute maximum out of ordinary players ( Shaw, Richards). So I can't see him throwing away a mid who has shown his ability to get the ball. Roos can work on Magners disposal like he has done with the others.

Roos would have also looked at the VFL finals that Casey played in. Based on the performances it is easy to see why Tynan and Gillies were dropped. (Tynans brother is a better footballer coincidentally!)

Jetta may also have his cards marked with an uninspiring effort. Bail, Nicholson and Evans aren't up to AFL standard but Evans will be saved this year by his contract.

Clisby is a certain upgrade. The kid knows how to play football and used his opportunity until suspended.

With 2 upgrades and Hogan to be added, there will be more to come. 3 retirements 4 delistings and 1 rookie gone is only the minimum amount that every club does each year.

Remember where we finished in 2013? To get to be competitive we have to do more than the rest. I'm hoping for another 4 to go.

And we will still have a sizable group of flawed players at the club! ( insert names here)

Ouch - http://images.theage.com.au/2013/09/11/4738419/aasp11afl3-20130911150036181960-620x349.jpg

Edited September 11, 201312 yr by PaulRB

One thing I notice is the amount of KPD depth we've discarded: Davis, Sellar and Gillies.

Not that they were worth keeping.

But I get the feeling (and at times during the season I wondered about this) that Roos sees us as having too tall a backline.

Not enough runners.

I think Dunn & Pedersen will be outside our 22 as depth, with Garland, Frawley and McDonald as our tall defenders.

We'll have more runners in defense, running the ball out and running forward to create options.

Dunn in particular is mobile, but doesn't often use his ability to run out of defensive 50.

(Not trying to turn this into a Dunn thread - it's just how I see it, as far as balance. Dunn is never going to misplace the other 3 tall defenders, and simply needs to create more run).

If you think about the running backmen at Sydney - Kennelly, Shaw, Mattner, Malceski... I think there were more.

I wonder if Grimes goes back onto the HBL, & Hogan comes in to a back pocket or flank, then Dunn will struggle to get a game. If you add a SThompson, or other its a certainty.

I think Pederson will develop into some sort of afl player yet. Roos will sort him,,,, or send him.

add Strauss & Jetta as runners & I think our senior defender list is OK for the next 12 months.... they may add some U-18 running backs this year for our future.

now, our centreline & mids is where we all know we need to add many.... insiders & runners. # are there many available Machiavelli ?

Praise The Lord!

Can we still delist Nicho? (won't be able to trade him)

Magner must be pretty [censored]!

Jetta - good choice

Are they all Neeld appointments?

Now trade Byrnes Pederson for pick 88?

Byrnes can be a handy crumbing forward and Pedersen good back up forward and back. Plus he has 2 years left of a contract!

Davey - 30 yrs, 178 games

Rodan - 29yrs, 185 games

MacDonald - 28yrs, 124 games

Sellar - 24yrs, 44 games

Gillies - 23 years, 15 games

Davis - 21 yrs, 2 games

Tynan - 19yrs, 2 games

Remembering that 22 games by 22 players is 484, those retirements and de-listings mean we finish the year with 66 less games experience than we started.

If each of those players are replaced by an 18 year old, we've also dropped 40 or so 'years' of experience, enough to bring our team average a full year lower.

Which could be a way of saying 'average age and games played means nothing' or could be a way of noting that we continue to be rebuilding and only one year in the last seven has our list become more experienced.

LOL - for comparison, GWS' four delisted veterans (Brogan, Cornes, O'hailpin and Thornton) have more experience than the rest of the list combined! :D

Much more important of course, is that this year at least we haven't lost much in terms of on-field contribution, whereas last year there was a fair bit cut out.

WHAT AN AMAZING LAST 6 DAYS IT'S BEEN!!!

- We officially sign Roos.

- We F*** off Royal (FINALLY) and delist 4 spuds and a plodder.

- Neeld's buddy Brown is gone! (nothing against him really).

- We sign a well respected forward line coach - Brett Allison (also sticking it up to the whinging Kangas).

- It's reported and rumoured Roos has convinced Watts to re-sign, hopefully he can do the same with Hogan for the long term (reported).

- It's rumoured we may obtain David Swallow in a trade for pick 2 (I hope this eventuates).

Not sure lunacy applies here Chook.

Neither of them can hit the side of a barn from 20 metres.

They are both turnover experts.

Bail is contracted and he may stay.

Nicholson is on very shaky ground IMO.

Turnovers kill a side.

I will be very surprised if both are around in 2015

stepping stones OD stepping stones... our lack of workrate & intensity is of a higher urgency at this stage than Nicho's kicking.. I reckon he may have one year to improve it.

Bail, it'll be interesting to see which way Roos takes this.

I'd have rather Pedo had gone and retained Sellar. Similar abilities but I reckon Sellar had more heart and desparation

Have to disagree there. Ball bounced off his chest too many times. A dud! With Craig golng he was never going to last

I feel sorry for Troy Davis.

Undoubtedly earned a senior spot after consistent performances in defence for Casey.

Inexplicably plays deep forward for the firsts.

Tries his guts out in the unfamiliar role with minimal opportunities.

Dropped and forgotten.

I hope he does well somewhere else. I reckon he might mirror Kyle Cheney's mighty effort as a fringe player in a ?premiership list.

I was very hopeful for Davis when he joined our list. I don't think he's made the most of his opportunity. last year cost him dearly with a lost 12 months of development. he should have improved his skills.

The surprises in today's announcement aren't in the names of those delisted, it's in the names of those who, at least for now, were spared.

7 senior spots freed up, one to be taken by Hogan leaves 6. Clisby gets one, surely, and Magner's still here. If they were both to get spots, we'd only have four live picks, which isn't enough I don't think, so I'd expect at least one more to come off (Magner + Nicholson/Jetta, I suspect).

Can you trade rookies?

Teams have been able to trade rookies for a few seasons now. I think, from memory, Mumford was one of the first rookies ever to be traded.

Magner was upgraded to the senior list in August while Clark was placed on the long-term injury list.

He didn't play a senior game subsequent to that.

That tells me that he has been assessed as being capable of playing senior football and the club took the opportunity to see if the likes of Davis, Clisby and Jetta were worthwhile retaining, in lieu of playing him.

We now know the answer for Davis.

Our new coach is adamant about mid-fielders. He has shown his ability in the past to get the absolute maximum out of ordinary players ( Shaw, Richards). So I can't see him throwing away a mid who has shown his ability to get the ball. Roos can work on Magners disposal like he has done with the others.

Roos would have also looked at the VFL finals that Casey played in. Based on the performances it is easy to see why Tynan and Gillies were dropped. (Tynans brother is a better footballer coincidentally!)

Jetta may also have his cards marked with an uninspiring effort. Bail, Nicholson and Evans aren't up to AFL standard but Evans will be saved this year by his contract.

Clisby is a certain upgrade. The kid knows how to play football and used his opportunity until suspended.

Agree regarding Clisby who looks an absolute goer, and Nicholson and Bail to go but Evans is worth perservering with.