Didn't his line also say something like "of the drugs they are aware were injected... the parents were given assurances that the players were in nor danger."

Like wtf? the drugs the club is aware of...

I think that's a point that gets lost in a lot of the speculation about whether or not the players took a banned substance or not. By not keeping records of what was taken, how much and by whom, they have absolutely failed in their duty of care to the players. They can say that there are little to no side effects to the drugs that where used, but that to me largely irrelevant. Even legally prescribed drugs by doctors are documented as to get a picture of patients history, the Essendon players now have a gaping hole in their medical history and the club has opened themselves up to being liable for possible future problems.

The doc on AFL360 said it was on the S2 list prior to April which goes against everything WADA have said.

This whole saga is steaming pile of shite.

Vlad needs to be removed from office.

The issue is that the drug is not approved and Essendon have no evidenced of proper confirmation and validation.

Any uncertainty is an ASADA issue. But where is the proof of Essendon's uncertainty being validated? Huh?

There is a lot of last minute desperate efforts to get the fingers pointed away from where they should point at the 4 aminos.

And you want Vlad for this?

There is a lot of last minute desperate efforts to get the fingers pointed away from where they should point at the 4 aminos.

I certainly agree this is whats being played out currently. Smacks of total desperation..

If and when they can pin one of the 4 Aminos on something, it will all unravel.

I get the sense ASADA and the ACC are both just giving them ( Messendon & Co ) the rope required.

I cant see what the AFL has done wrong. The issue with AOD is that WADA think it was baned under S0 and ASADA have advised it is not. There is obvioulsy no chance of charges or infractions being made against the Blubbers (Essendon) or its players for the use of AOD as a baned substance but that is not what the club and employees have been charged with. They have been charged with bringing the game into dissreput. While use of baned substance is material to that charge it is not the only evidence to sustain the charge. Essendon by its own admission had poor governance over the supplements program that was implemnted outside of the clubs medical regime. The club employed or sourced substances from people who are at best suspect and most likely have, and contnue to deal in illegal/ASADA baned and dangerous substances and are alledgeded (by the ACC) linked to organised crime. The club does not have complete or accurate record s of what was provide to players are all factors that have obviously been consdered by the AFL in laying the charges that they have laid. These facts all support the charges that are layed and in my opinion the responsibility as Hirds has stated himself goes back to the heaf of the Football Department (James 'teflon' Hird). The others are in my opinion guilty of te same offences ut to a lesser degree given Hirds role and influence at the Club.

It would be highly inappropriate for the AFL to comment n the status of any substance while an ASADA investigation that the AFL was involved in was underway. The AFL has never accused players of taking a baned substance, the public discussion has been generated and created by the media who have reported on hald facts, runours and innuendos since the start of this like they did to us during the tanking investigation.

If it was good enough for the Dees to answer to these charges to the AFL Commision then it is good enough for the Blubbers. If offences are established by ASADA then they will still have to answer to the AFL in accordance with the existng AFL antidoping rules that Essendon pressumabley agreed to when the were drafted years ago. All the talk about indepndant umpires and confiicts of interest is legal spin and not what the rules say or based on fact.

Hird and Co have employed spin doctors and lawyers from day one and most of the rubbish beng promulgated is from them and they are tryng to shift blame to the AFL to minimise any damage to the Blubbers. In doing so they are continuing to bring the game and brand into dissreput and should hang their heads in shame.

Anyway thats my rant done!!! I hate the Blubbers and hope they cope the flogging they deserve.

Essendon seeks to allay concerns about health problems related to the drugs/supplements scandal

I find this curious for a number of reasons the least of which is the almost contemptuous manner in which they abuse and use the poistion of a media 'performer' who also was a club great and is father to a Messendon star.

I would think the media should be getting the views of other parents and partners, I'm really not that interested in what Tim has to say. Surely the club can't shut down the others, I find it hard to believe there are not at least sources in the parent and partner community even if they don't want to go on the record.

I would think the media should be getting the views of other parents and partners, I'm really not that interested in what Tim has to say. Surely the club can't shut down the others, I find it hard to believe there are not at least sources in the parent and partner community even if they don't want to go on the record.

Rjay.. .I would have to agree. I think its curious that they are trying to ride the coat-tails of Watsons value in the media as a leveraging point, whilst treating him as they are the rest of the parents as nongs. Its disingenuous.

Im curious to why no-one's really gone after any other parents. There must be some pact in place that they ( the parents) think has some currency and value to uphold. But belief must be being tested to the limits you'd have to think.

I believe it was Sue who raised the spectre of what happens once anyone is delisted and then feel cut off form the pack, left to wither sts.

Im quite happy for this to play longer.I dont think Messendon will get far in september and theres quite a bit of time before the Draft to invoke any penalties in that realm.

I just have the feeling we're only a short wait before a hole in a dyke cracks open.

Why does this Garnham put his head up now?

Exactly, when he says he knew, what he is now saying, back in February.

He also said today on Watson's show, that he is now a paid consultant for Essendon.

oh what a tangled web...........

Rjay.. .I would have to agree. I think its curious that they are trying to ride the coat-tails of Watsons value in the media as a leveraging point, whilst treating him as they are the rest of the parents as nongs. Its disingenuous.

Im curious to why no-one's really gone after any other parents. There must be some pact in place that they ( the parents) think has some currency and value to uphold. But belief must be being tested to the limits you'd have to think.

I believe it was Sue who raised the spectre of what happens once anyone is delisted and then feel cut off form the pack, left to wither sts.

Im quite happy for this to play longer.I dont think Messendon will get far in september and theres quite a bit of time before the Draft to invoke any penalties in that realm.

I just have the feeling we're only a short wait before a hole in a dyke cracks open.

It's as though the parents and partners all speak with one voice, I can't believe that is the case.

They are definitely trying to muddy the waters and using every available avenue - the complicit media of Robbo and Connolly, ex-employees, ex-players, supporters, lawyers - you name it.

I wonder if Dank has a new holiday house somewhere on an exotic island....I know nuthing....

This is the biggest scandal to hit the AFL in 150 yrs. They need to be open and transparent - not their forte. If its not the stench will remain for a very long time

The obfuscation is incredible. We don't know what drugs we took, we know what we took but they weren't illegal. We don't have records, We have done nothing wrong. But we got rid of Dank and Robinson anyway. Doc Reid wrote to the Board but we can't find it and it was never delivered. Paul Hamilton is also gone as is Robson and Evans butwe did nothing wrong. We never would have fessed up if it wasn't for the AFL telling us too. Its their fault.

Its franky unbelievable.

I would think the media should be getting the views of other parents and partners, I'm really not that interested in what Tim has to say. Surely the club can't shut down the others, I find it hard to believe there are not at least sources in the parent and partner community even if they don't want to go on the record.

With due respect, if I had a son caught up in this I would be look at more low key methods than media sprinkling. I don't blame parents who wish not to be used as media fodder

I have no issue with Watsons actions given he is a father of a son with much to lose. I do question his motives of upping the pressure on the AFL and the media for the pressure on the players. If Watson is mad with this parties I can't see how he could other than appalled and disgusted at the cowboys ( former teammates and friends) who have put his son and others at such risk and pressure.

I would though be wary of Watsons motives beyond his sons disposition though.

It's as though the parents and partners all speak with one voice, I can't believe that is the case.

Where I think this might change is again going to Sue's assertion about post season will be once Messendon start messing with their list. On current form I cant see them going much past the first week of the finals ( going down to the Filth ).

The dam wall may well hold until then. ASADA and the ACC have time on their hands. The AFL can then get niggly with Windy Hill as time also plays into Vlads hands. The Messendon faithful will have seen 2013 come and go. All the bruhaha about the right to finals etc becoming moot.

With the draft not til Nov 21 there's a eon in which to faciltate the upending of Hird & Co

I cant see Messendon figuring much in trade week, though free agency might become interesting but then again with possible infractions looming theyd all be tarred.

The weather forecast looks particularly bad around the airport

......Im quite happy for this to play longer.I dont think Messendon will get far in september and theres quite a bit of time before the Draft to invoke any penalties in that realm.

That's win win Essendon get penalised and the chances of Carlton reaching the finals are diminished by the delay.

That's win win Essendon get penalised and the chances of Carlton reaching the finals are diminished by the delay.

its moorishly delicious isnt it

AFL 360 seems determined to clear the Bombers.

You've just noticed this now?

Robbo and Whateley write for the HUN and I suspect they are being fed much of their information from the Essendon camp. Garnham himself is a consultant to the Bombers and while I have no doubt he made calls to ASADA on the S2 and S0 points raised in last night's programme, I wonder why his confusing piece of evidence has come out now and not in earlier AFL reportage. Does he have any written proof of his advice and what are WADA's rulings on the apparent conflict between S2 and S0? I've always had a lot of time for Whateley but last night wasn't his finest hour or his best interview because it didn't really explain why Essendon had such faith that its players were free to be given AOD9604.

This is what S0 is about:-

S0. Non-Approved Substances

Any pharmacological substance which is not addressed by any of the subsequent sections of the List and with no current approval by any governmental regulatory health authority for human therapeutic use (e.g drugs under pre-clinical or clinical development or discontinued, designer drugs, substances approved only for veterinary use) is prohibited.

Staggering that Whateley should come to the conclusion that S0 is not intended to apply to AOD-9604.

On the other hand, the Age is taking the opposite tack to the HUN, probably get a lot of their information from the AFL etiher directly or indirectly and is riding Essendon a lot harder.

The truth?

Who knows where that sits in this tangled web?

If I was Essendon I would send an fully itemised list of all substances injected to players, amounts and dates to Fairfax Media to prove we've done nothing wrong - I'm sure they'd publish it. For privacy reasons the actual players don't need to be named just ...

• player A: 14/4/2012: Amino Acid XYZ 20 micrograms

Or maybe they don't have that information and that's the whole problem? Maybe the players were injected with Strontium-90 laced spider venom - no-one at Essendon knows for sure.

spider venom would make sense with tangled webs !!!

Exactly, when he says he knew, what he is now saying, back in February.

He also said today on Watson's show, that he is now a paid consultant for Essendon.

I am sure this not affecting his view Redleg.

Just a coincidence no doubt!!!!!!!!

I heard Garnham on morning show on SEN. He admitted that he is a paid consultant for Essendon. When asked a direct question about whether he had anything in writing about AOD9604 not being banned, he attempted to dissemble but could not say yes. When the subject of the 'mexico' drug was bought up, he said that he had an idea what it might have been. After the interview was over, Maher and company mused over the question that they did not ask him - If he was a party to the Switkowski report, why was the supposed ASADA advice not in it?

It wasn't in it because they have nothing in writing. They are in trouble for their shocking governence; why can the Essendon apologists not see this is a real mystery.

A doctor employed by the club cannot tell the players what drugs they were injected with. He just has an idea what they might have been ...

The abysmal level of reporting is standard,

I heard Garnham on morning show on SEN. He admitted that he is a paid consultant for Essendon. When asked a direct question about whether he had anything in writing about AOD9604 not being banned, he attempted to dissemble but could not say yes. When the subject of the 'mexico' drug was bought up, he said that he had an idea what it might have been. After the interview was over, Maher and company mused over the question that they did not ask him - If he was a party to the Switkowski report, why was the supposed ASADA advice not in it?

It wasn't in it because they have nothing in writing. They are in trouble for their shocking governence; why can the Essendon apologists not see this is a real mystery.

A doctor employed by the club cannot tell the players what drugs they were injected with. He just has an idea what they might have been ...

Good to see at least some of the media ask the obvious question. Why did Garnham wait till now? I pride myself on being a good conspiracy theorist with finely attuned (cynical) political antennae, but I'll be blowed I can think of any reason. So I have to conclude saying it now is a last minute attempt to muddy the waters.

Exactly, when he says he knew, what he is now saying, back in February.

He also said today on Watson's show, that he is now a paid consultant for Essendon.

when they spoke to him did they ask the question

how did Essendon know it was safe in 2011/2012

why did jobe admit he was on AOD and knew it was safe, yet his club publicly wouldn't answer this for 7 months

and please show us the receipts for these injections 2011/2012

bet timmy didn't ask him those questions

With due respect, if I had a son caught up in this I would be look at more low key methods than media sprinkling. I don't blame parents who wish not to be used as media fodder

I have no issue with Watsons actions given he is a father of a son with much to lose. I do question his motives of upping the pressure on the AFL and the media for the pressure on the players. If Watson is mad with this parties I can't see how he could other than appalled and disgusted at the cowboys ( former teammates and friends) who have put his son and others at such risk and pressure.

I would though be wary of Watsons motives beyond his sons disposition though.

With due respect, if I had a son caught up in this I would be look at more low key methods than media sprinkling. I don't blame parents who wish not to be used as media fodder

I have no issue with Watsons actions given he is a father of a son with much to lose. I do question his motives of upping the pressure on the AFL and the media for the pressure on the players. If Watson is mad with this parties I can't see how he could other than appalled and disgusted at the cowboys ( former teammates and friends) who have put his son and others at such risk and pressure.

I would though be wary of Watsons motives beyond his sons disposition though.

No, I don't blame the parents either 'Rhino', but I would have thought the media would have chased something down even if it was off the record. It seems too quiet apart from Tim.

As for Watson, I agree fully with what you are saying.

http://t.co/cDKmJyluex

Bang

http://t.co/cDKmJyluex

Bang

noooooooo

not Essendon nnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooo

heart bleeds

guess who were gonna thrash next year

bombers on the bottom nnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Essendon liars and cheats nnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

black ops , say that again? and you were in the room when he said it nnnnoooooooooooo

No, I don't blame the parents either 'Rhino', but I would have thought the media would have chased something down even if it was off the record. It seems too quiet apart from Tim.

As for Watson, I agree fully with what you are saying.

Youd think if they kept it up thered be a weak link somewhere, Never are everyone totally happy or quiet.

Time will out