Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[jnrmac 20,065]

why are people astonished ? There was always going to be two very separate issues at play.

There is only one issue at play. Anything else is in the minds of the Ess Kool Aid drinkers.

[nutbean 8,838]

There is only one issue at play. Anything else is in the minds of the Ess Kool Aid drinkers.

really only one issue ? so we are over a year into this and this has all been settled and put to bed......ohhh

[beelzebub 23,376]

Have I missed something? Has their "guilt" been proven? I've seen stacks of evidence which suggests Essendon players MAY have taken banned substances but just because popular opinion is that illegal supplements were used, I'm still waiting for proof. The closest to "proof" that I've seen is when Nick McKenzie from The Age interviewed Stephen Dank who allegedly admitted players were given one substance only to change his story during the interview when told what he'd just admitted to was an illegal substance. Relying on a media story as the source of "proof" is fraught with danger.

Are you being deliberately mischievous ? The deed to which the sporting codes signed ( WADA) works by the Inquisitional System not the adversarial one of common law. I.e You are Guilty until you can show innocence. They haven't done this to date and seriously don't they ever could for a very simply reason.

So , and it's a point worth repeating. you ARE Guilty unless you can show you are INNOCENT. That is the whole purpose of Show Cause Notices. It gives the recipient the opportunity to SHOW they are innocent.

[pitchfork 181]

I honestly can't put this all together - I asked a lawyer friend, he wasn't exactly sure what their whole case is.

Even if the AFL/ASADA process was improper, and perhaps even outside ASADA's legislated powers, it still doesn't seem to call into question the legitimacy of the original tests, and doesn't appear to prevent ASADA reissuing the show-cause notices. All people should be able to fight charges they feel they are innocent of, but even if Hird and the EFC are in their right to fight this, it seems a small matter compared to the looming punishment of 30 employees.

------

Also, the EFC surely have an interest in protecting the state of the game. They benefit from it. An Essendon win is a loss for the code, and in the end a loss for Essendon.

I wish this was over.

[beelzebub 23,376]

yeah im more astonished that the media have gone along with it and been sucked in

it sells papers

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

Are you saying the Essendon players aren't entitled to defend themselves the best way they can? The right to not self-incriminate seems to me like something the Essendon players are perfectly entitled to pursue. It's potentially their livelihood we're talking about, after all.

I am not disputing the players right to not self incriminate, rather the manner in which Essendon are planning to use that to stop ASADA re-gathering evidence.

I am of the opinion Essendon have left the integrity of the game in tatters and are trying to get away on a technicality rather than own up to their own mistakes

[nutbean 8,838]

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Also, the EFC surely have an interest in protecting the state of the game. They benefit from it. An Essendon win is a loss for the code, and in the end a loss for Essendon.

They absolutely do have an interest to protect the state of the game right up until the time they are about to get whacked with a very big stick - then self interest kicks in.

[beelzebub 23,376]

I honestly can't put this all together - I asked a lawyer friend, he wasn't exactly sure what their whole case is.

Even if the AFL/ASADA process was improper, and perhaps even outside ASADA's legislated powers, it still doesn't seem to call into question the legitimacy of the original tests, and doesn't appear to prevent ASADA reissuing the show-cause notices. All people should be able to fight charges they feel they are innocent of, but even if Hird and the EFC are in their right to fight this, it seems a small matter compared to the looming punishment of 30 employees.

------

Also, the EFC surely have an interest in protecting the state of the game. They benefit from it. An Essendon win is a loss for the code, and in the end a loss for Essendon.

I wish this was over.

No, youve got it. This is the nonsense of it all. They EFC arent actually questioning the validity of the reasoning for the SCN only the procedural method of having arrived at them. They are hoping to derail the train. They know the train is legit but just dont want it arriving at its destination.

[beelzebub 23,376]

Are you saying the Essendon players aren't entitled to defend themselves the best way they can? The right to not self-incriminate seems to me like something the Essendon players are perfectly entitled to pursue. It's potentially their livelihood we're talking about, after all.

We arent dealing in common law here. Its about adherence to a code of practice as laid down by the representative bodies and agreed to by all participants. This usurps the so called right to non self incrimination.

maybe they should have read the fine print huh

Edited August 15, 2014 by beelzebub

[beelzebub 23,376]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-would-consider-appeal-says-chairman-paul-little-20140815-104d6g.html

Of course he will say this...its the "Tilting at Windmils ' methodology. Its a form of bullying really. He seeks an unjust outcome by show of relentless attack. hes just hoping to wear it all down. he underestimates his adversaries me thinks. They are even more stubborn and determined.

[Damo 3,356]

Bub your shrill lynching party shtick gets on my goat. Shoulda done it ages ago. See ya.

[ManDee 7,148]

Bub your shrill lynching party shtick gets on my goat. Shoulda done it ages ago. See ya.

Between you and me, I don't think he will miss you. And you couldn't miss a parting shot.

I sometimes disagree with BB, we often get stuck in, but he regularly has valid points of view to which i often agree.

[beelzebub 23,376]

Bub your shrill lynching party shtick gets on my goat. Shoulda done it ages ago. See ya.

That would be schtick!! and franky..my dee, ..I couldn't give a damn!

What Little and co are doing is despicable. I make no apology for schticking the boot in to these despots.

Edited August 15, 2014 by beelzebub

[ManDee 7,148]

On a totally unrelated topic and in the wrong place, the half forward line at Casey looks pretty good.

I reckon we will give those Tassie Bombers a flogging next year.

[beelzebub 23,376]

Titus brings a spot of levity to this saga.

What really happened during James Hird and Essendons court case with ASADA

[jnrmac 20,065]

really only one issue ? so we are over a year into this and this has all been settled and put to bed......ohhh

Pardon? nothing has been settled. Are you on the Kool Aid?

All the stuff about a legal investigation, demetriou, David Evans etc is all distraction. Surprised you can't see it. It is totally irrelevent.

The only issue issue of any substance if did the ess players take banned drugs and what are the health implications for them.

[jnrmac 20,065]

Bub your shrill lynching party shtick gets on my goat. Shoulda done it ages ago. See ya.

Its hardly shrill. Your post on the other hand....

[ManDee 7,148]

I explained Essendons obfuscation to my wife this way.

It is like the police warning you that speed cameras are in the area. (Demetriou)

You get booked for speeding, (ASADA)

Then you complain that the police did the wrong thing by warning you about the speed cameras. (Essendon)

Therefore you are innocent. ???????????

This is not a case of post hoc ergo propter hoc.

[nutbean 8,838]

Pardon? nothing has been settled. Are you on the Kool Aid?

All the stuff about a legal investigation, demetriou, David Evans etc is all distraction. Surprised you can't see it. It is totally irrelevent.

The only issue issue of any substance if did the ess players take banned drugs and what are the health implications for them.

correct nothing has been settled - and I am surprised you can't see that the distractions aren't irrelevant. If the distractions were irrelevant this whole mess would have been over months ago.

footnote - you are right on what should be the only issue but obviously Essendon are making it about the process and what can and can't be proven. Distractions ? yes - but distractions that Essendon will keep dragging on

Edited August 15, 2014 by nutbean

[beelzebub 23,376]

correct nothing has been settled - and I am surprised you can't see that the distractions aren't irrelevant. If the distractions were irrelevant this whole mess would have been over months ago.

footnote - you are right on what should be the only issue but obviously Essendon are making it about the process and what can and can't be proven. Distractions ? yes - but distractions that Essendon will keep dragging on

This is all about a game of distractions !!!

[binman 42,961]

This is all about a game of distractions !!!

I keep meaning to watch that show, i've heard it's good , but something always comes up

[ManDee 7,148]

I keep meaning to watch that show, i've heard it's good , but something always comes up

Can't wait until Working Dog make a mini series about this fiasco.

"Spot the Doper"

Tom Gleisner as Little Paul

Rob Sitch as Jaques Merde

Santo Cilaro as Andy Dee

Jane Kennedy as Tanya Merde

Russle Coight as ASADA

You know the storyline, all the truth and nothing but the truth. No one would believe that you could make this stuff up.

[Soidee 1,496]

Hands up those who have had enough of Paul Little.

I'm sick of this self absorbed bully who pushes everyone around as he sees fit.

He is an absolute A grade half back flanker.......

Essendon would do much better to get rid of this litigious floggg

[binman 42,961]

Hands up those who have had enough of Paul Little.

I'm sick of this self absorbed bully who pushes everyone around as he sees fit.

He is an absolute A grade half back flanker.......

Essendon would do much better to get rid of this litigious floggg

my hand is up. Plus he can't shut up. Makes a stupid cooment about making it go away and has to make a clarification the next day. Making it hard for the hun to show blind faith Edited August 15, 2014 by binman

[Whispering_Jack 30,122]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-would-consider-appeal-says-chairman-paul-little-20140815-104d6g.html

He also called on ASADA to disclose more information surrounding their grounds for issuing show-cause notices in June.

"If ASADA is sitting on evidence then surely for sake of health and welfare of players they should be tabling it now."

We've just gone through a three day circus spectacle in the Federal Court in which Little's club alleged that ASADA had acted beyond its powers and now Little's telling ASADA to divulge its evidence when it's clearly under no obligation under its charter to do so.

The cheek of the man!