OUT: Abbott IN: Turnbull

[dpositive 1,665]

I wonder if the "hiatus" has occurred due to some minority of countries (including China meeting their obligations) have taken action to reduce their climate impacting practices. The Hiatus is too recent and short term to be factually investigated but there are indeed some interesting impacts on the models. i will probably wait for the scientists rather than the economists the pope and politicians.

I dont know who Tony will listen too.

Re the boats why are we still having these damned interminable discussions over border protection if the boats have been stopped.

They havent.

Terrorists aren't coming either which is why we have enough to spend on a royal commission that so far has found that Bill Shorten ran a union and got employers to pay for things such as training and staff that made the union work better for its members.

[nutbean 8,838]

hey earl, you forgot the fitzroy hipster threat.....and jacqui lambie....

I warned you before - lay off Jacqui - I got this whole Jacqui/Pauline/nutbean menage fantasy going on,,

Wait...how do i delete this post.

[nutbean 8,838]

No doubt Zak's ignorance on live TV played into the hands of common sense and the Abbott Government but that's not the point it gave Abbott a chance to address the bias against them at Q&A and the ABC.

Sorry - that is the point - you have rightly pointed out that Zaky played into the hands of the Abbott Government - but hardly a word on that.

Absolutely missed the chance to hold Zaky up as the poster boy for his legislation.

You must concede that one of the biggest talking points of Governments worldwide is terrorism and how to deal with it ( weave into the debate fundamentalism/Radicalism and any other ism you care to mention as well as the treatment of nationals fighting for these wars). Whether one agrees with Abbotts approach or not here was a prime example of someone who could have been a powerful tool for publicizing Abbotts legislation.

[daisycutter 29,614]

Sorry - that is the point - you have rightly pointed out that Zaky played into the hands of the Abbott Government - but hardly a word on that.

Absolutely missed the chance to hold Zaky up as the poster boy for his legislation.

You must concede that one of the biggest talking points of Governments worldwide is terrorism and how to deal with it ( weave into the debate fundamentalism/Radicalism and any other ism you care to mention as well as the treatment of nationals fighting for these wars). Whether one agrees with Abbotts approach or not here was a prime example of someone who could have been a powerful tool for publicizing Abbotts legislation.

but, nut, we already know he is a tool

[nutbean 8,838]

Nutbean - I appreciate you posing links but I asked for you to show me one climate scientist (or anyone really) who predicted a hiatus before it happened.Not after.

Flimsy arguments denying a measurable fact are not persuasive. And if you you do believe those links you posted are you arguing the IPCC is no longer believable as they do recognise a hiatus? The science is settled right? So one has to be incorrect. Let me know which.

And here in lies why we will never see eye to eye. You see this problem only in absolutes. If there are corrections to models or adjustments that need to be made because new data comes to hand or a new way of looking at something as the Science is ever evolving then that makes all previous arguments on climate change moot.

NOAA has now come out and suggested their research show that there was no Hiatus. So you will come back and ask who is wrong and who is right NOAA or the IPCC report ? I guess I believe that just because adjustments continue to be made and new learnings alter our understanding this has not altered the general concensus on where we are heading with this. The thing I suppose I find the most frustrating is the IPCC fifth assessment makes pretty scary reading yet all that some have managed to take out of it is the "hiatus".

[nutbean 8,838]

but, nut, we already know he is a tool

alas, not all of us.....

[Grapeviney 9,718]

Sorry - that is the point - you have rightly pointed out that Zaky played into the hands of the Abbott Government - but hardly a word on that.

Absolutely missed the chance to hold Zaky up as the poster boy for his legislation.

You must concede that one of the biggest talking points of Governments worldwide is terrorism and how to deal with it ( weave into the debate fundamentalism/Radicalism and any other ism you care to mention as well as the treatment of nationals fighting for these wars). Whether one agrees with Abbotts approach or not here was a prime example of someone who could have been a powerful tool for publicizing Abbotts legislation.

I don't think he needed to nut - the most powerful opposition to the citizenship stuff has come from inside Cabinet, not the Coalition party-room or the electorate. Most punters would happily see Australian citizens stripped of their status, never mind dual nationals. Abbott knows this, and so do a majority of the backbench. He hasn't really had to convince anyone of the merit of these new laws other than the moderates in Cabinet.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I wonder if the "hiatus" has occurred due to some minority of countries (including China meeting their obligations) have taken action to reduce their climate impacting practices. The Hiatus is too recent and short term to be factually investigated but there are indeed some interesting impacts on the models. i will probably wait for the scientists rather than the economists the pope and politicians.

I dont know who Tony will listen too.

Re the boats why are we still having these damned interminable discussions over border protection if the boats have been stopped.

They havent.

Terrorists aren't coming either which is why we have enough to spend on a royal commission that so far has found that Bill Shorten ran a union and got employers to pay for things such as training and staff that made the union work better for its members.

the temperature is shifting around the globe, & is also being absorbed into the oceans; changing current flows, & speed, & the Oceans are shifting the heat around as well, impacting on things like 'El Nino', & 'La Nina'...

CO2 is also being absorbed into our waterways & oceans, increasing salinity acidity of our Oceans.

..... its nothing the Earth wouldn't have been thru before, but we are bringing it on quicker, & possibly more severely.

the dinosaurs would have witnessed worse... for a short time in their Era.

I not so worried by the increased heat (air temp) on me personally, as I can move to cooler climates, but guessing which climates will be the cooler ones in 20 years time is anybody's guess.

As the changes, will change all known expectations... So Tassie could end up being like West Australia ? Who knows, once this snowball starts really rolling along, just how big it'll get, will be anybody's guess, & how quickly it then melts, well

.... the thing that worries me the most is the devastation it brings, before it tips over into a new Iceage.

The graphs of past climatic temperature rises, show a steady gradual rise in CO2's until it arrives at a point, where the graph spikes upward to a peak, then comes crashing down almost vertically, in next to no time, compared to the rise.

an icy world isn't something that can sustain many populous.

Edited July 18, 2015 by dee-luded

[daisycutter 29,614]

glad you cleared that up d-l

sadly i'll be 6' under by then

[dee-luded 2,959]

Of course you won't show me anything. Facts or evidence aren't really your thing. But keep posting meaningless links all you like.

I don't answer to anyone I don't care to as i'm not your servant.

I looked for the facts a long time back & I was convinced by them, at that time.. did I write them down. No.

I wouldn't bother wasting any facts on a skeptic with a closed mind anyway, as the craap you view things with would surely only damage anything put forward.

So I wouldn't put any facts before you; like any Pearls before you, you'd likely chew them, & then spit.

so, there is really no point.

Edited July 15, 2015 by dee-luded

[dee-luded 2,959]

glad you cleared that up d-l

sadly i'll be 6' under by then

its not you dc i'm worried for, or even me..

Its this beautiful Earth, that gives us running Rivers with Salmon purging upstream, Ice/Snow capped Mountains, Coral Reefs, the ability to grow Sweet Corn out in the back yard.

all our beautiful Animals & Fish, Reptiles & Marsupials, & even some Humans... this is what I worry for.

[daisycutter 29,614]

its not you dc i'm worried for, or even me..

Its this beautiful Earth, that gives us running Rivers with Salmon purging upstream, Ice/Snow capped Mountains, Coral Reefs, the ability to grow Sweet Corn out in the back yard.

all our beautiful Animals & Fish, Reptiles & Marsupials, & even some Humans... this is what I worry for.

just a state of mind, mate

earth hasn't always been like that and i'm sure those creatures in their own time thought it was beautiful too

[dee-luded 2,959]

just a state of mind, mate

earth hasn't always been like that and i'm sure those creatures in their own time thought it was beautiful too

precisely

[nutbean 8,838]

I don't think he needed to nut - the most powerful opposition to the citizenship stuff has come from inside Cabinet, not the Coalition party-room or the electorate. Most punters would happily see Australian citizens stripped of their status, never mind dual nationals. Abbott knows this, and so do a majority of the backbench. He hasn't really had to convince anyone of the merit of these new laws other than the moderates in Cabinet.

Good politicians rarely miss an opportunity to say "see..i told you so" and wave the flag on their triumphs. This was just opportunity that went begging.

I am not sure but I hope most punters can see the difference between Australian/Dual citizens being stripped of their status by the courts as opposed to ministers. ( that was Zaky's point before he went off the rails)

[Earl Hood 6,086]

Gee I think Miss Bishop may be in a spot of trouble if we invoke the Slipper standard of behaviour. Gee he was crucified for using a cab for a [censored] up not a fricking Helicopter to get to a LNP fundraiser! .

[Wrecker45 3,378]

Proof... as long as the evidence is NOT from govt sources, from right wing journos or shock jocks, but rather is from sources to do with human rights issues, then yes, you might manage to convince me. I would be interested to know why you think Abbott is trying to silence the workers at the detention centres?

Stopping the boats... on what do you base your claim that the numbers are down? Didn't Abbott put a code of silence in place with regards to sea going naval operations in relation to the boats? How would you have even the vaguest idea of how many boats there are? You can assume all you like, but it doesn't necessarily make it so.

How is this link? https://theconversation.com/sea-level-is-rising-fast-and-it-seems-to-be-speeding-up-39253

A left wing rag trying to hype up the scare despite saying the sea level has risen 2 - 3 mm since 1993. If you miss the bit about only 3mm sea rises over 3 decades you could be forgiven for thinking we are about to drown because that is the tone of the article.

But but but but but it says we will rise 1m by 2100. Based on current rising that will take alot of pissing in the ocean.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Wrecker45

[Wrecker45 3,378]

the temperature is shifting around the globe, & is also being absorbed into the oceans; changing current flows, & speed, & the Oceans are shifting the heat around as well, impacting on things like 'El Nino', & 'La Nina'...

CO2 is also being absorbed into our waterways & oceans, increasing salinity of our Oceans.

ok. Great. Show me the models that predicted that. I follow the IPCC and they said the temperatures would rise and hit a tipping point which couldn't be turned back.

I didn't notice any predictions of heat hiding in the oceans or changing current flows. Point me to them.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

I wonder if the "hiatus" has occurred due to some minority of countries (including China meeting their obligations) have taken action to reduce their climate impacting practices. The Hiatus is too recent and short term to be factually investigated but there are indeed some interesting impacts on the models.

The hiatus has lasted as long as the "unprecedented warming" did. You can't have one without the other. If the hiatus is too short to be factually investigated so is the rapid warming.

Please note I acknowledge the warming since the Little Ice Age. The climate has always changed; it has to go up or down.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Wrecker45

[Wrecker45 3,378]

Gee I think Miss Bishop may be in a spot of trouble if we invoke the Slipper standard of behaviour. Gee he was crucified for using a cab for a [censored] up not a fricking Helicopter to get to a LNP fundraiser! .

Agreed. Absolute disregard for public money. I like Bishop but that is indefensible.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

I am not sure but I hope most punters can see the difference between Australian/Dual citizens being stripped of their status by the courts as opposed to ministers. ( that was Zaky's point before he went off the rails)

Agree with you nutbean it needs to be a decision independent from politicians and made in the courts. I don't think Zaky made that point. He seemed to be talking about himself and taking a victims stance despite having plotted to kill ASIO officials.

On a side note can you believe Q&A had a 10 year old to make a political point during the week? At least when they had that terrorist on the Liberal party member was rightly able to call him out. Abbott or any other Liberal will never argue with a child (except Sarah Hanson Young) it would be an unethical attack.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Wrecker45

[Wrecker45 3,378]

And here in lies why we will never see eye to eye. You see this problem only in absolutes. If there are corrections to models or adjustments that need to be made because new data comes to hand or a new way of looking at something as the Science is ever evolving then that makes all previous arguments on climate change moot.

NOAA has now come out and suggested their research show that there was no Hiatus. So you will come back and ask who is wrong and who is right NOAA or the IPCC report ? I guess I believe that just because adjustments continue to be made and new learnings alter our understanding this has not altered the general concensus on where we are heading with this. The thing I suppose I find the most frustrating is the IPCC fifth assessment makes pretty scary reading yet all that some have managed to take out of it is the "hiatus".

Nutbean - I appreciate your post. Unlike some who have posted in this thread you have read and have an understanding of the information available.

The data is always evolving and that is why I am in the skeptics camp. If we get rapid warming again I will be in the the global warming camp.

Whilst I am not familiar with the NOAA data I have looked at it. I am genuinely interested, did the website begin before or after the hiatus?

[dee-luded 2,959]

ok. Great. Show me the models that predicted that. I follow the IPCC and they said the temperatures would rise and hit a tipping point which couldn't be turned back.

I didn't notice any predictions of heat hiding in the oceans or changing current flows. Point me to them.

http://gfdl.noaa.gov/bibliography/related_files/td0802.pdf

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/141208/ncomms6752/full/ncomms6752.html

Edited July 18, 2015 by dee-luded

[Wrecker45 3,378]

Terrorists aren't coming either which is why we have enough to spend on a royal commission that so far has found that Bill Shorten ran a union and got employers to pay for things such as training and staff that made the union work better for its members.

Hah? Bill Shorten took payments that weren't disclosed to the electoral commission from companies to buy memberships that increased his powerbase. At the same time those same companies reduced the workers rights and won contracts because they could afford too on the reduced labor costs.More unethical than conflict of interest.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

I wonder if the "hiatus" has occurred due to some minority of countries (including China meeting their obligations) have taken action to reduce their climate impacting practices.

I like how you count China as a minority country. Where do think Australia fits in if China is a minority?

[Wrecker45 3,378]

http://gfdl.noaa.gov/bibliography/related_files/td0802.pdf

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/141208/ncomms6752/full/ncomms6752.html

dee-luded you are prolific poster of meaningless links. Unless you say why you are posting them I am not going to read them.