I reckon you had a shocker of a pre-season on and off the field.

I hope next year is better.

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

I pass on information as I see it. The training standards from a quality and professionalism point of view were vastly superior to previous years. And I passed that information on. When the AFL season started we were diabolically crap. And I passed that information on.

Early on I thought Mark Neeld was little more than a spin doctor and border-line crackpot. And I passed that information on.

I disseminate and process what is put before me and form the best conclusions I can from the available data. I hoped Jack Watts would be a star and was desperate to draft him, but he plays like a girl. I thought Cale Morton had genuine talent. He was a pea-heart. When I first saw Trengove play I thought we'd landed a beauty. He's a park footballer. One of the more baffling reversals of early form I've seen, but we all have opinions as to why. I have positions on many things and people, but unlike some, I'm not wedded to earlier views and I don't let any natural bias cloud my thinking.

You sponsor Jordie McKenzie and let your bias control your judgment. I call him out to be the hack he is. You were buying shares in Daniel Bell when he needed a hospital ward. We're all prone to busts.

i thought he was pretty good yesterday?

if so his 4 out of the last 5 have been pretty solid

i like the look of thiskid.

he doesnt lack composure, he's got great skills and he takes the game on.

i have no doubt Melbourne will recruit or buy a good midfield and hell than have some support and some targets to kick to

Seriously ? A dozen games in and it's clear cut? Mind boggling the impatience shown here.

Can you blame him for lack of patience? Can you blame any of us??

Toumpas was skilful and thoughtful in his play yesterday. The only thing that was holding back was an engine to keep going and confidence in himself and the team to attack the ball first rather than pause because we cough up the ball so often you have to defend.

Viney / toumpas is the right mix. Viney / wines would be same same.

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

I pass on information as I see it.

I enjoy reading you're posts Ben, more insightful than most and certainly entertaining.

But I do think you misread the preseason horribly, singing the praises of Petersen (amongst others) and saying Viney could turn our midfield round quickly. When I suggested that preseason was like dancing with your sister you said perhaps but "she's had a makeover". You call it as you see it but by your own admission you're a blue sky junkie and that, more than personal relationships, leads you to wrong conclusions.

I've given up trying to pick players, I'm not much good at it. You and I could point to numerous situations where we've each got it wrong. Come to think of it we could point to numerous situations where the recruiters have got it wrong.

I don't remember your initial stance on Neeld but I don't recall it being anything but positive. I called him very early and had one poster stalking me. I also called McLardy and Schwab and was abused from pillar to post. Unlike players I reckon we can have more meaningful opinions of off field performance which is why I concentrate on that area. I think we can have views on the structure of list management so I comment occasionally on that.

Neeld was a disaster from day one and there were very clear signs. His first public utterances were to criticise Watts and Davey and go on to say "I don't know the players, I've only just got here". His appointment of joint Captains was a disaster and his alienation of the senior players catastrophic. His tenure has put this club back 5 years and ruined the careers of many at our club. McKenzie, like Trengove and Grimes, has been cruelled by a coach with no idea of leadership or game plan. Hopefully the next coach can restore these players to somewhere near their real potential but I reckon for Trenners the horse has bolted which was my fear right at the beginning. The failure of our club to recognize Neeld's inadequacy is the single biggest blunder I can remember it making. And it was evident from the outside very early and blindingly obvious from the inside.

Poor old Belly is a hard call by the way. Many clubs expressed interest in him because he had all the physical attributes to be very good but nobody realized he was affected as much as he was from his high incidence of concussion and the brain damage he suffered playing AFL footy. It had a profound effect on this ability to play the game. Thankfully the last I heard he had made very good progress and has overcome most of his issues.

I think today was one of his better games. Made a couple of errors (should have had a crack at goal ffs) but was very good in the main. Used the ball quite well, hitting most targets. Played mainly in the back line, which is unusual for him. I especially liked his mongrel when he and Harvey scuffled. He didn't take a backwards step.What is very disappointing is how little spirit there seems to be in our team. Only Grimes came in to fly the flag. Everyone else had a look and turned away. When you expect a 19 year old to show some fire, it doesn't bode well for our Club.

Good points. It's so bloody frustrating how little unity and mateship there seems to be. All around the ground there's just little to no support for each other, pulling each other up off the ground etc. The only one I can remember is Dawes shoving Thompson off Viney.

If that situation (Toumpas) happened in a Sydney or Hawthorn game, they'd be all in there. You don't even have to be a good footy player to back up your mates, it's just pathetic.

I enjoy reading you're posts Ben, more insightful than most and certainly entertaining.

But I do think you misread the preseason horribly, singing the praises of Petersen (amongst others) and saying Viney could turn our midfield round quickly. When I suggested that preseason was like dancing with your sister you said perhaps but "she's had a makeover". You call it as you see it but by your own admission you're a blue sky junkie and that, more than personal relationships, leads you to wrong conclusions.

I've given up trying to pick players, I'm not much good at it. You and I could point to numerous situations where we've each got it wrong. Come to think of it we could point to numerous situations where the recruiters have got it wrong.

I don't remember your initial stance on Neeld but I don't recall it being anything but positive. I called him very early and had one poster stalking me. I also called McLardy and Schwab and was abused from pillar to post. Unlike players I reckon we can have more meaningful opinions of off field performance which is why I concentrate on that area. I think we can have views on the structure of list management so I comment occasionally on that.

Neeld was a disaster from day one and there were very clear signs. His first public utterances were to criticise Watts and Davey and go on to say "I don't know the players, I've only just got here". His appointment of joint Captains was a disaster and his alienation of the senior players catastrophic. His tenure has put this club back 5 years and ruined the careers of many at our club. McKenzie, like Trengove and Grimes, has been cruelled by a coach with no idea of leadership or game plan. Hopefully the next coach can restore these players to somewhere near their real potential but I reckon for Trenners the horse has bolted which was my fear right at the beginning. The failure of our club to recognize Neeld's inadequacy is the single biggest blunder I can remember it making. And it was evident from the outside very early and blindingly obvious from the inside.

Poor old Belly is a hard call by the way. Many clubs expressed interest in him because he had all the physical attributes to be very good but nobody realized he was affected as much as he was from his high incidence of concussion and the brain damage he suffered playing AFL footy. It had a profound effect on this ability to play the game. Thankfully the last I heard he had made very good progress and has overcome most of his issues.

I don't disagree with a single word. I am a bit of a blue sky junkie. If I wasn't I wouldn't be here.

And yes, I supported Neeld in his first year, as I thought the playing group needed someone with a hard edge and the list culling, but I realised at the beginning of the season that he was a total crackpot out of his depth.

I still believe in Viney, but he's had a tough run with injuries and will be better when others can capitalise on his good inside work.

Who would have thought it could have got to this ?

.

Who would have thought it could have got to this ?

Not me. I also believe in Viney but he, like Toumpas, will need time.

Edited July 28, 201311 yr by Baghdad Bob

Jimmy should have a spell for a few weeks. Back to Casey to get possies, and the winning feeling again.

Jimmy was always going to be a development player - we all knew this before he was drafted.

Had an interrupted pre-season with a hip op and only been able to play a few games.

Alot of very premature judgements on this site. Will be interesting what a full preseason will do to him.

but it does beg the q ( at least to me ) when we are in such dire need of up and running midst why did we go for a project ibt lieu of a near ready made.

nothing against Toumpas .

We have him; yay us. good for down the track i suppose. Its always about tomorrow yet yesterday we got smashed .

but it does beg the q ( at least to me ) when we are in such dire need of up and running midst why did we go for a project ibt lieu of a near ready made.

nothing against Toumpas .

We have him; yay us. good for down the track i suppose. Its always about tomorrow yet yesterday we got smashed .

nice title for a country and western song there bub

I certainly hope you Dmitri knockers have tge guts to come on here and apologize in a years time.

Jimmy should have a spell for a few weeks. Back to Casey to get possies, and the winning feeling again.

Not sure about this. He was far from our worst against North and his confidence seems to be on the rise again.

He is actually one of the players I feel most comfortable with when he has the ball - his skills are so good.

I actually thought he was probably in our top 2 or 3 yesterday. Not saying much given our performance, but a much better return.

I certainly hope you Dmitri knockers have tge guts to come on here and apologize in a years time.

I dont knock him per se...just the decision to take him

I dont knock him per se...just the decision to take him

The difference is so subtle that it ceases to exist.

The difference is so subtle that it ceases to exist.

Rubbish..

prey tell quantify such a ridiculous remark

Wines impacts games..Toumpas might,,in a coupe of years

Rubbish..

prey tell quantify such a ridiculous remark

Wines impacts games..Toumpas might,,in a coupe of years

"I don't like dogs"

"I don't like people who have dogs"

Either way, you're probably not going to let any dog owners over to your house. It's the same thing; the same result.

wines has a strong midfield supporting him, toumpas does not.

"I don't like dogs"

"I don't like people who have dogs"

Either way, you're probably not going to let any dog owners over to your house. It's the same thing; the same result.

english if you may please sir

wines has a strong midfield supporting him, toumpas does not.

Wines has grunt... Toumpas probably has more class.

Im not saying for one moment that Dimitri isnt making a fist of it...Just Olivers is bigger Simples !!! and hes doing it NOW

i wonder what our chances are of luring ollie back to play with jack? id give up watts or pick 2 for him, just that bit more help for jones would go a long way

wines has a strong midfield supporting him, toumpas does not.

Wines is a large part of that strong midfield.

He is who we desperately need. Toumpas is an outside mid.

We needed extractors as building blocks

Toumpas is a class act but he should not have been picked above Wines.

Look at our Mids right now.

Wines is a large part of that strong midfield.

He is who we desperately need. Toumpas is an outside mid.

We needed extractors as building blocks

Toumpas is a class act but he should not have been picked above Wines.

Look at our Mids right now.

i can see the reason behind it though, toumpas is a classy leader and something different, plus we got viney already, i think toumpas skills will be a huge asset for us in terms of kicking to our tall forwards advantage, although you are right, wines is better right now.