POSTMATCH DISCUSSION - Round 11

[Craig Drinker 179]

over exaggeration - they are no less worse than when Bailey was coaching. We had lazy players then - the only difference was we had a few who could still remember some success. They just need to start turning to winning - that not only means games but every contest - they need to work harder of the ball.. even though we were flogged - there were patches where we actually moved the ball quite well - however Collingwood were able to shut us down through greater experience and work harder. The players just have to become more mentally tougher, especially under pressure.

Rubbish!! But beautifully spoken.

[DemonOX 8,701]

What will happen when we lose to GWS?

I USED to enjoy footy now it's just depressing.

[machine11 142]

is it skill or the ability execute skills because the opposition are better and more experienced. Is the inability to carry out the game plan because they don't understand it or that the opposition are that much better, that under pressure the players cannot pull it off.

We try hard , you can see that, but the last two weeks have shown me its all about skill and run.
We constantly turn the ball over = poor skills
The opposition always run harder, and get more players loose = More run and speed and run and carry.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Wish we had a few more players inept enough to get 23 disposals at 87% DE and take 8 marks.

It's easy to rack up possessions and accuracy, when you are kicking it backwards and forwards across the goal under no pressure. Shaw and Maxwell do it all the time.

[Harrisonrules 273]

for me, Jamar just doesn't have the ability to win the ball to be a premium ruckman. The days of ruckman whose only stats are hit outs was made redundant years ago.

Not an adequate assessment of ruckwork.

[Craig Drinker 179]

Possibly, I don't know for sure, just interested in some reasons people question the coaching, not being a smartarse

I am questioning the coaching because it is my belief that the the playing list is not that bad! That will only be proven rightly or wrongly if coaching changes are made. Until then it remains my opinion.

[hardtack 10,422]

I think they said four out of the last six.

They are now saying on AFL360 that it's 3 out of the last 5.

[DemonOX 8,701]

Just out of interest, give us a list of things the coaching staff did wrong

Didn't man Swan up.

Can't motivate the boys

Game plan what game plan

[DeeZee 7,296]

is it skill or the ability execute skills because the opposition are better and more experienced. Is the inability to carry out the game plan because they don't understand it or that the opposition are that much better, that under pressure the players cannot pull it off.

I dont know, but i feel fitness has a big part to play.

The midfield running group just cant keep up with the good sides especially.

Im a little perplexed with the skills because teams like Collingwood can introduce young players, who dont miss a beat.

[Harrisonrules 273]

Just out of interest, give us a list of things the coaching staff did wrong

If you can explain the game plan, please go ahead, not only do supporters want to know but radio commentary are baffled. But then you may be more perceptive than every one else.

Hand balling to players in hopeless situations has to be connected to game plan. Reminds me of the bad early days of Bailey.

Despite saying he would not throw 18 players behind the ball to stop the flood, that's what he did, the few occassions we did break free through the middle we had no forwards to kick to but a wall of Colliwobblers.

The limited McKenzie is capable of nothing but scrounging. They say he is a tagger. He couldn't stop Sidebottom, at the same time Swan ran amuk. His dinky little handballs are usually to someone covered. If you think that's smart coaching I'll go hee. He gets a couple of kicks per game. We are playing with 17 men, while Magner is wasting away at Casey. Unfortunately Neeld has a string of bad decisions. Every one erodes confidence and trust.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Harrisonrules

[rjay 24,615]

What would you change if you were coach? What moves don't you like?

We're not good enough, that's clear but what are the specific game plan issues you have?

Let me have a go at this. This is based on a recent post and observation; someone posted that the players are restricted to certain parts of the ground and this is measured on the GPS, it may or may not be true but it looks to be true. No one seems to read the play coming down the ground and make position for the kicker, players seem stagnant in zones forward and back and in centre bounces. The first thing I would do is to get movement around the ground.

We have 2 senior coaches in Neeld and Craig who are very structured and as someone else pointed out they believe in the science of football. The coaching move I would make is to get back not only the balance but take it back to the creative side of football, the art of football. Develop appropriate defensive structures but also let the players play, the spirit is taken out of them by the concentration of zones and defence. The best defence is having the ball and keeping it, we have trouble getting it and then give it away easily when we have it.

The science aint working...

[ucanchoose 1,816]

My jumping the shark moment today was a 3rd quarter kick in. Dunn waving his arms like its some sort of set play. Kicks to himself, runs another 10m metres and proceeds to kick it straight over the head of every single one of our players straight down Jolly's throat. Nobody's on the same page. It's just rubbish and unwatchable

[Jaded No More 67,772]

Incidentally, am I the only one who loved the 50m penalty Garland gave away? Just hurled Cloke face-first to the ground to emphasize his point to the rest of our defence. Beautiful.

Applauded that as much as I did any one of the four goals we kicked.

Garland has been huge this year and had a great game on Cloke, but he seems so angry and frustrated and I don't blame him.

I genuinely feel gutted for guys like him and Jones. They must feel so angry and cheated all the time.

[Demon Dynasty 17,094]

Im still struggling how there are any redeeming qualities to a 83 point thrashing by a side that itself is struggling to find its A-game.

Glimmers here and there are nothing more than that....glimmers.. one might call them 'aberations" even

Neeld doesnt seem able to orchestrate a plan on the run that can contain annihilations.

I just dont seem to understand what anyones trying to achieve because I cant see anything thats working.

I just see a lot of failure...time after time. Nothing is learnt

And I'm happy to give examples to back that BB. Just 4 off the bat...

1. Allowing teams to get too many +1 +2s and in some rare cases +3s at and around the stoppages. Occasionaly we have the advantage here but its rarely for more than a quarter. Oponnents often up the ante with numbers at the stoppage after quarter or half time but for some inexplicable reason, after 18 months under Neeld, Royal & crew we are either unwilling or unable to match top clubs at doing this for more than a quarter or so.

2. Our positioning of numbers around the stoppage is poor. Often standing either side of the throw in or ball up, allowing opponents to occupy or run through the contest towards the open corridor side. They then spread quickly corridor side for the quick transition straight up the middle with options to deliver directly in front or sideways to lead up targets who are themselves spreading in order to isolate their opponents.

3. We continue to allow at least one opponent to run free from the kick outs even though we are apparently playing a man on man defense.

4. In a 1 on 1 tackle situation with the ball on the ground and 2 players scrapping over the ball, too often a Demon hovering close by will leave his opponent and jump into the contest on the ground, leaving his opponent free to take the ball either directly or on a receive on occasions when it is prised or pops free from the contest.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Rusty Nails

[manny100 1,396]

Positives:

Hogan to come in next season

Hogan to come in next season,

etc,

Toumpas, Terlich, M Jones - 2nd preseason to come,

Watts showed some aggression

Trengove stepped up

Clark, Grimes, Viney to come back in,

Blease showed some pace,

Fitzpatrick played his best game,

Evans should improve,

Hogan to come in next season,

Pick 2 this coming draft should get us a star midfielder

Free agency - FGS get someone good!!!!!

Billy Stretch in 2014 draft

[Dr. Gonzo 23,723]

The one thing that kills us week in and week out is our shocking disposal and decision making leading to turnovers which we get scored on, heavily. Today Collingwood scored 89 of their 122 points through turnovers. There's multiple reasons such as lack of forward structure and players standing still and failing to make options coupled with failure to kick to a players advantage/into space.

This is why I find it difficult to really assess Neeld as if we had players with decent disposal and decision making we'd have at least one more win this year (Brisbane) and possibly two (Richmond).

[Jaded No More 67,772]

My jumping the shark moment today was a 3rd quarter kick in. Dunn waving his arms like its some sort of set play. Kicks to himself, runs another 10m metres and proceeds to kick it straight over the head of every single one of our players straight down Jolly's throat. Nobody's on the same page. It's just rubbish and unwatchable

This.

We have what, 9 coaches? Between them all can they not come up with one single alternative to the bomb it long to Jamar (who rarely takes a mark anyway!)???

And for the love of all that is red and blue, why oh why is Dunn the designated kicker? He. Is. Shite!

[Kenny Powers 90]

The positive is that for the first time for many year I didn't go to the QB game.

The positive is people like you make us all look that little bit brighter...please contribute rather than dribble shi*t, pick up your lip

[Kenny Powers 90]

Applauded that as much as I did any one of the four goals we kicked.

Garland has been huge this year and had a great game on Cloke, but he seems so angry and frustrated and I don't blame him.

I genuinely feel gutted for guys like him and Jones. They must feel so angry and cheated all the time.

totally agree, Garland is looking so frustrated I feel for him.

[Jaded No More 67,772]

Oh and another thing. Last quarter, Collingwood get back just outside their attacking 50, and then proceed to pick not one, but two unmarked teammates inside their forward 50. Two uncontested marks inside 50, while we had nobody inside our attacking half. That means everyone stood inside our defensive 50, and failed to man up twice.

How the hell can this be acceptable? Not to mention that numerous Collingwood players who strolled down from half back to half forward unaccounted over and over again.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Im still struggling how there are any redeeming qualities to a 83 point thrashing by a side that itself is struggling to find its A-game.

Glimmers here and there are nothing more than that....glimmers.. one might call them 'aberations" even

Neeld doesnt seem able to orchestrate a plan on the run that can contain annihilations.

I just dont seem to understand what anyones trying to achieve because I cant see anything thats working.

I just see a lot of failure...time after time. Nothing is learnt

I'll go along with that, we were dreadful today and from some of the posts on here you'd think we played well; we were outscored 16.14 to to 4.4 in the last three quarters, thats 82 effing points. How some can come away with glimmers of hope in spuds like Pederson, Fitzpatrick and Rodan is completely beyond me.

Maybe there was a parallel game somewhere in the Universe that I missed and perhaps I just had a nightmare instead.

In my game O'Brien was running out of the backline and Sylvia was chasing him, O'Brien gave off the ball so Sylvia stopped but O'Brien didn't, he kept on going accepted the return hand pass and ran off and kicked a goal. Thank God that only happened in my nightmare.

I also saw a tall player, one of the tallest on the ground, miss so many marks as the ball bounced off is hands or just went straight through them and another payer in the backline kick the ball three times in a row directly to the opposition, tell me that didn't happen; did it?

We are [censored], the worst side in the comp by far and we are that desperate we are praising second raters, for performing second rate jobs.

[Hardnut 327]

A comment about today's President's lunch based on media reports.

In regard to Jeff Kennett's comments about offerring himself for President of MFC, McLardy was correct in dismissing the 'brown and gold' side of JK.

However, McLardy showed his lack of understanding of the responsibilities of his own position when he brought JK's politics into the discussion - this lack of judgement parallels that of MN as Coach and shows how poorly both men are dealing with the pressures of the current MFC position.

Both men need to keep their eyes on the ball, not on the man.

[DeeZee 7,296]

Collingwood had their pick of loose players inside 50 all day.

All mostly midfielders whose opponents failed to run back with them.

[CHAMP 347]

Confidence was shot in round 2??? What was with that???

Major issues with the coaching staff and not just Neeld. I feel a little sorry for him as he seems way over his head. I think he had an ambition to become an AFL coach. Achieved his ambition, unfortunately I don't think his ambition was to become a quality AFL coach.

If he is removed, then most of his assistants including Neil Craig need to be removed, as this isn't all Neeld's doing.

Unless a major miracle occurs then I can't possibly see Neeld coaching in 2014. Make the call, cut him now. Do him and everyone else a favour.

For a reason I can't put my finger on the confidence of the playing list is shot and that was evident from round 2.???

I keep saying this and I truly believe it. Our playing list isn't that bad!!!

I thought Mark covered it well in the Presser when he said "Our Playing List is our Playing List".

This was after he'd admitted certain players should be running out in the VFL but that we didn't have that luxury.

Not sure if he was talking about older players not up to it or the young guys short on the blessed experience.

[DemonOX 8,701]

Positives for me

1 Garlo getting up his team mates for not running hard enough to fill the gap to help stop cloke on a few occasions

2 Sylvia giving Fitzy a spray for a shite hand pass which led to pies goal

3 Watts giving it to the umps for their shite decisions

Neeld needs to go, the FD needs to be changed and the board needs a change NOW

We need Roos so badly it not funny. Pay him whatever as its costing us more leaving it the way it is.

Edited June 10, 2013 by DemonOX