The benchmark of progress is right before our eyes every week. You don't need to play someone at your level to see how you've progressed. Your performances against the top sides can give a very good indication of progress. For example, no one would have expected us to beat the Dons or Dockers, but a reasonably competitive showing would have shown some signs of progress. However, the way we were systematically dismantled in those games shows how far backwards we've gone.

Even if we are to look at sides around our level, I think our performances against Port, GC and GWS again highlight just how far we've regressed under Neeld. These are sides who finished near the bottom last year. We have played these three sides AT HOME and have been smashed by Port and GC and were 3 goals down to GWS at 3/4 time.

I don't need to wait any longer to see how far we've regressed - it is there to see each and every week of this miserable season.

I see,,, Neeld has made us regress.... against other developing sides. sides with GAblett Jnr & other senior players amongst their kids...

... Not the fact that we are withOUT: > Green, Moloney, Jurrah, Rivers, Gysberts, Morton, Martin, Bennell, Petterd, Cook, Bate, Bartram ?

&, the fact that we have largely been without leaders in,,,,, Mitch Clark, Dawes for most, Grimes, Trenners for all practice matches.....

I would say that is a big slice of experience to lose, whilst trying to compete with your Ports, Suns & Tigers etc...

He didn't lose them. He got rid of them.

The bottom line is both Neeld and the players are the problem. Saying it is absolutely one or the other is plain wrong. Neeld's gameplan is still quite a mystery and clearly there are communication issues. His man management also seems to be lacking so coaching is an issue. Our list is not great, so improvements need to happen there. This is the perfect storm that will be a great story if we can survive it.

Go ask current players & ones that left....

They hate this guy!

A coach needs to embrace & get the best out of his list.....not drive a stake through it!

...so, clarkson refused our offers, as did RLyon, & others like Roos said he won't coach this club... what does that tell you??? they don't want to go near this culture with a B-52 !!!!

... Let some other poor soul do it.

... it takes guts to stepup to this mire we have built over 15 Yrs. On top of an already flashy & unprofessional culture thru the nineties, we've added soft.

It is this sort of thing which sells the club short. A mire for 15 years? Rubbish!

MFC made the finals 13 times out of 20 years from 1987-2006. I think in that time we played 2 GFs and 5 prelims. At the end of 2006 the football world did not condsider we were in crisis.

We then had 4 years of rebuilding. Painful, but in 2010 we won 8.5 games. We discharged a huge debt. MFC did not seem in crisis at the end of 2010.

In 2011 we won 7.5 games before the Geelong disaster. Less than 2 years ago we beat Freo and Adelaide by about 96 points. Anyone watching 2011 games would see an inexperienced but promising list, with holes in it but full of promise.

For reasons I don't understand, the new coach appointed at the end of 2011 has decided to effect awful changes to the list. He has downgraded the few senior players, he has complained about the list he has inherited. IT IS HIS PROBLEM! He has been given (correctly) free rein by the committee, thus he has selected 5 duds who couldn't get a game elsewhere (yes I am dubious about Dawes)

I believe he has responsibility for the assistant coaches.

I agree, this is very painful but the coach must stand down or be stood down. This is not a unique situation. Look at what happened to Tim Watson ( a decent, capable man) at St K.

But it's a gross error to categories everything as being bad for decades.

Over the past 5 years the footy dept' tried to fix it & made some mistakes along that path, moving on the more disciplined & hard workers, & kept the flashy... the coach was removed.

Now we have someone who understands the Issue & is doing the hard work, with the backing of the footy dept along side him. don't you think they would have walked out, if it was wrong?

most ex players from other clubs have known, Melbourne have been undisciplined & lazy as a club for decades, but none of them would say it as Melbournefc were still adding entertainment to the show.

Now they are just putting out cheap shots from the soft seats.

We lost the last half by 20 points to a genuine premiership contender.

Oh please.

Neeld has big plans for Blease and Strauss....he is taking notes to sort this list out properly.

Ok will have to take your word for that - I don't understand why he wouldn't be pumping games into guys like these though if they are going to be part of our future, nothing like learning on the job. Surely they'd have to be better choices than some of the guys who keep getting games.

So let me paint a picture of what Neeld took on when he accepted the head coaching position. When Neeld took over this club after Bailey's tenure, he took on a list that had kicked out it's best leader, Jnr McDonald, and said goodbye to good clubmen like Yze, Miller, Robertson, and Bruce; lost Tom Scully due to financial incentives and (if Scully is to be believed) concerns around the leadership of the veterans on the club list; had training standards and fitness levels that would take 3 years to fix; had a core group of young inexperienced players that had never experienced an environment with real AFL level standards before; a history of poor drafting and insufficient investment of funds into player development; but he took it on with an aim to turning the club around to become "the hardest team to play against" within 3-5 years.

Now, some people seem to think that this can be fixed within 18 months. I think that is unrealistic. We have a team bereft of leadership, which is why we have two of the youngest captains in the history of the game. We have also said goodbye to some senior players during the last offseason and gotten younger again. We are now in a position where we have the 2nd least experienced team in the league.

However, the foundations are there for change. Veteran players recognised as good clubmen, who are recognised for their attitude to training, as well as some seriously talented Key Position talent, have been recruited. Byrnes and Rodan were two such players recognised as good club men, who were brought into to help mentor the player group. Clarke and Dawes have been recruited to provide us with the most promising Key Forward combo this club has seen since the Neitz and Schwartz years. Players have been recruited to fill roles, and some good mature age recruits have been brought in to bolster the ranks (Pederson, Magner, Terlich, Couch, M Jones). All the while, some seriously promising young talent has been recruited (Toumpas, Hogan, Viney) while games have been poured into our developing list. Some players have also shown a new level of consistency not previously seen (N Jones, Sylvia (some may disagree on this one), Garland, Grimes) under previous coaches.

There are a number of positives, to go along with the negatives. Some say blame Neeld, some say don't, blame the players instead.

I say, the problems lie largely in the past, and have contributed to the poor practices that I current player group have displayed. Why, because when you look at everything that has happened, our club was a basket case before Neeld took over and changes were needed to turn it around. Those changes are currently being made, and I believe that we will not see the improvement we are all craving, until next year. And when I say improvement, I simply mean that we will jump over the Saints and Bulldogs on the ladder while holding off a developing GWS. But we shouldn't expect much more than that, because that's just not where we are at with our list.

Many on here will disagree, and many will say, BUT IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!. It may not be good enough for where we WANT this club to be. But we are where we are for a reason and I do not believe that the big improvement will come until next year, and the year following. For me, the benchmarks of our progress for the remainder of this season should be when we play St Kilda and the Bulldogs, two clubs I believe to be in a similar transition period to us, but with a better group of experienced leaders.

Those are just my thoughts on where we are, agree or disagree I don't care.

I largely agree with you. However it was the news last week, that Sylvia, Watts and Frawley, are wanting out, that, in ascending order of concern, alarmed me!

Despite everything that you rightly say, about the situation Neeld inherited, if he can't sell the vision to the key players, then he must go.

Go ask current players & ones that left....

They hate this guy!

A coach needs to embrace & get the best out of his list.....not drive a stake through it!

Who cares though

Bailey was best mates with the players and they lost by 186 points

Cale Morton says WCE elite players are a class above any player when he was at the club including Moloney, Rivers & Green

Do we want a 'best mate' for the players or do we want professional players who perform to high standards on a consistent basis in any conditions and or venue????

If you can have a crap point with a lot of speculation I also reserve the right to express mine without the fact he needs the players to play for the jumper.........

If the club says Neeld isn't or won't get the elite results I say move him on - but [censored] me have soft expectations at this club...

There is hope there - I wish I had on the couch's graphic where they showed 12 - 14 solid players to take us forward - but [censored] me most of them were young or injured....We've got 2 weeks of crap ahead then we can really see how good of a coach Neeld is - and if he [censored] up the last 10 weeks then let's [censored] him off

WYL, I'm not following you around, so don't think this is creepy....

I see your tone has softened as you have a clearer understanding of where we're at.

24 hours ago, you were screaming for Neeld's head on a tray.

Don't be seduced by posters who think Neeld is the problem - he's not.

We have too many players that are in love with being footballers, rather than coming together for a common goal.

We're getting there and I'll do everything I can to help this club.

i haven't softened at all mate.

I feel sorry for Mark. But he has to go...

The job is too big for a rookie.

Go ask current players & ones that left....

They hate this guy!

A coach needs to embrace & get the best out of his list.....not drive a stake through it!

Come on. You hate this guy but let's not conflate your distaste for Mark Neeld with the player's feelings towards their coach.

Who cares though

Bailey was best mates with the players and they lost by 186 points

Cale Morton says WCE elite players are a class above any player when he was at the club including Moloney, Rivers & Green

Do we want a 'best mate' for the players or do we want professional players who perform to high standards????

If you can have a crap point with a lot of speculation I also reserve the right to express mine without the fact he needs the players to play for the jumper

I don't really think it's either/or. You can have someone who is middle ground. I would say we need an authoritative coach: not someone who is authoritarian and harsh like Neeld (he has since let go of the tough guy act to keep his job and/or sanity) nor someone who is indulgent and submissive like Bailey.

I largely agree with you. However it was the news last week, that Sylvia, Watts and Frawley, are wanting out, that, in ascending order of concern, alarmed me!

Despite everything that you rightly say, about the situation Neeld inherited, if he can't sell the vision to the key players, then he must go.

That's the big issue all else is largely irrelevant - if we are going to lose players because of Neeld he has to go. We don't know that only those within the club know if its the case.

I don't really think it's either/or. You can have someone who is middle ground. I would say we need an authoritative coach: not someone who is authoritarian and harsh like Neeld (he has since let go of the tough guy act to keep his job and/or sanity) nor someone who is indulgent and submissive like Bailey.

My point was what difference does it make - the coaches attitued

Bailey - soft = we were [censored]

Neeld - tough - we are [censored]

People need to accept where we are as a club - as I posted above

There is hope there - I wish I had 'on the couch's graphic' where they showed 12 - 14 solid players to take us forward - but [censored] me most of them were young or injured....We've got 2 weeks of crap ahead then we can really see how good of a coach Neeld is - and if he [censored] up the last 10 weeks then let's [censored] him off

All this dramatic chest thumping to sack everyone is not going to solve our problems short term....... People just want change to make themselves feel better and give themselves hope.

We can't even run a club properly - A footy club is run like a company - the board make decisions and run the place - supporters/media = owners and have no say in decisions but just watch this [censored] weak club fold to pressure - and that right there will see the MFC be a laughing stock for ever

If the owners disagree wiht the board they get voted out - and someone else takes over - so my example here is that the owners (us members and the media) are dictating the direction of the club

I don't care if you agree or disagree with this - that is the basic fundamental of operations

People say people are leaving the club - thanks for stating the obvious - I wonder if they realise people will return when someone has the balls to do the hard work and turn the club around. People love success and unfortunately we are so far away from it and have been for years when someone actually attempts it they get fired half way through a job they were hired to do

Just listen to that muppet the bald one - on AFL 360 (the chief writer at the Sun damn i've forgotten his name)

regarding Neeld he says he should be sacked - something has to happen now

Scott Watters is on the panel and he starts blabbing on how Waters inherited a list and dosen't understand how people don't get it a coach needs a few years to rebuild

Right there is the stupidity that is dictating the direction of our club - media pressure will force our clubs hand I guarantee it - we are a [censored] weak club and always will be

No matter how right or wrong you think Neeld being coach is - the board need to make the decisions based on their inside knowledge, evaluate consequences and plan ahead strategically - sacking Neeld right now stinks of [censored] weak administration. Fire him at the end of the year once the season has played out and we have the total picture.

Who cares though

Bailey was best mates with the players and they lost by 186 points

Cale Morton says WCE elite players are a class above any player when he was at the club including Moloney, Rivers & Green

Do we want a 'best mate' for the players or do we want professional players who perform to high standards on a consistent basis in any conditions and or venue????

If you can have a crap point with a lot of speculation I also reserve the right to express mine without the fact he needs the players to play for the jumper.........

If the club says Neeld isn't or won't get the elite results I say move him on - but [censored] me have soft expectations at this club...

There is hope there - I wish I had on the couch's graphic where they showed 12 - 14 solid players to take us forward - but [censored] me most of them were young or injured....We've got 2 weeks of crap ahead then we can really see how good of a coach Neeld is - and if he [censored] up the last 10 weeks then let's [censored] him off

How many more 100pt loses an this club & members/supporters take?

The brand is damaged!

The player exodus will be massive! Imagine losing what talent we have left eg Frawley,Silvia,Watts etc

We need change to somehow embrace these players & sell them a new message of hope along with the supporter base which has been smashed!

People need to get their heads out of the sand & see the train wreck occuring.....death of a footy club!

There is hope there - I wish I had on the couch's graphic where they showed 12 - 14 solid players to take us forward - but

UH, Clint Bizkit posted it in the "Core Players" thread so you can join in there or bring it over here I guess

UH, Clint Bizkit posted it in the "Core Players" thread so you can join in there or bring it over here I guess

Thanks Biff

My point was what difference does it make - the coaches attitued

Bailey - soft = we were [censored]

Neeld - tough - we are [censored]

People need to accept where we are as a club - as I posted above

There is hope there - I wish I had 'on the couch's graphic' where they showed 12 - 14 solid players to take us forward - but [censored] me most of them were young or injured....We've got 2 weeks o

f crap ahead then we can really see how good of a coach Neeld is - and if he [censored] up the last 10 weeks then let's [censored] him off

All this dramatic chest thumping to sack everyone is not going to solve our problems short term....... People just want change to make themselves feel better and give themselves hope.

We can't even run a club properly - A footy club is run like a company - the board make decisions and run the place - supporters/media = owners and have no say in decisions but just watch this [censored] weak club fold to pressure - and that right there will see the MFC be a laughing stock for ever

If the owners disagree wiht the board they get voted out - and someone else takes over - so my example here is that the owners (us members and the media) are dictating the direction of the club

I don't care if you agree or disagree with this - that is the basic fundamental of operations

People say people are leaving the club - thanks for stating the obvious - I wonder if they realise people will return when someone has the balls to do the hard work and turn the club around. People love success and unfortunately we are so far away from it and have been for years when someone actually attempts it they get fired half way through a job they were hired to do

Just listen to that muppet the bald one - on AFL 360 (the chief writer at the Sun damn i've forgotten his name)

regarding Neeld he says he should be sacked - something has to happen now

Scott Watters is on the panel and he starts blabbing on how Waters inherited a list and dosen't understand how people don't get it a coach needs a few years to rebuild

Right there is the stupidity that is dictating the direction of our club - media pressure will force our clubs hand I guarantee it - we are a [censored] weak club and always will be

No matter how right or wrong you think Neeld being coach is - the board need to make the decisions based on their inside knowledge, evaluate consequences and plan ahead strategically - sacking Neeld right now stinks of [censored] weak administration. Fire him at the end of the year once the season has played out and we have the total picture.

How many more 100pt loses an this club & members/supporters take?

The brand is damaged!

The player exodus will be massive! Imagine losing what talent we have left eg Frawley,Silvia,Watts etc

We need change to somehow embrace these players & sell them a new message of hope along with the supporter base which has been smashed!

People need to get their heads out of the sand & see the train wreck occuring.....death of a footy club!

Grow some ball mate

Take the time to see where the club list is at and what we are trying to achieve -

The brand has been damaged for years - that is a stupid argument

I don't want to see players leave - that is up to the club and the coach to sell them the direction. Are you saying Frawley is lying when he says he supports the coach? You do realise Frawley has to be traded he can' walk at the end of 2013 and the MFC dosen't have to accept a trade

Afterall if what your saying is true then he isn't playing for the coach in 2013 - what difference does 2014 make?

As for the rest - where is the solid evidence any of them want to leave - the only one with a real option to leave is Sylvia - I like him but after 8 yeras or medocricty and the MFC won't play finals for at least 2 - 3 years who'd blame him for chasing success

Unless you get some facts then you are talking crap - yes I would be very disappointed if Gawn left

The club needs a change or you need a change to sell you hope?

The train wreck is here mate and has been for years - People just expect this [censored] to turn around in 1 year

My point was what difference does it make - the coaches attitued

Bailey - soft = we were [censored]

Neeld - tough - we are [censored]

People need to accept where we are as a club - as I posted above

There is hope there - I wish I had 'on the couch's graphic' where they showed 12 - 14 solid players to take us forward - but [censored] me most of them were young or injured....We've got 2 weeks of crap ahead then we can really see how good of a coach Neeld is - and if he [censored] up the last 10 weeks then let's [censored] him off

But go back to 2011. Yes we had the disaster at Geelong, but we won 8.5 games that year and the previous year. Please watch our wins v Adelaide and Freo by 16 goals. I strongly disagree that we were a basket case. Problems yes, basket case no. What is the evidence we were unfit under Bailey? None so far as I am aware except the present coach's pleading.

On the other hand there are so many players have regressed. And whilst the pressure to go younger had been started earlier.Neeld has gone further--immediately. Didn't wait a year to observe-- downgraded the few senior players before he had coached a match.

Feel sorry for him but he has to accept responsibility. Surely you agree with that?

All this dramatic chest thumping to sack everyone is not going to solve our problems short term....... People just want change to make themselves feel better and give themselves hope.

We can't even run a club properly - A footy club is run like a company - the board make decisions and run the place - supporters/media = owners and have no say in decisions but just watch this [censored] weak club fold to pressure - and that right there will see the MFC be a laughing stock for ever

If the owners disagree wiht the board they get voted out - and someone else takes over - so my example here is that the owners (us members and the media) are dictating the direction of the club

I don't care if you agree or disagree with this - that is the basic fundamental of operations

People say people are leaving the club - thanks for stating the obvious - I wonder if they realise people will return when someone has the balls to do the hard work and turn the club around. People love success and unfortunately we are so far away from it and have been for years when someone actually attempts it they get fired half way through a job they were hired to do

Just listen to that muppet the bald one - on AFL 360 (the chief writer at the Sun damn i've forgotten his name)

regarding Neeld he says he should be sacked - something has to happen now

Scott Watters is on the panel and he starts blabbing on how Waters inherited a list and dosen't understand how people don't get it a coach needs a few years to rebuild

Right there is the stupidity that is dictating the direction of our club - media pressure will force our clubs hand I guarantee it - we are a [censored] weak club and always will be

No matter how right or wrong you think Neeld being coach is - the board need to make the decisions based on their inside knowledge, evaluate consequences and plan ahead strategically - sacking Neeld right now stinks of [censored] weak administration. Fire him at the end of the year once the season has played out and we have the total picture.

I get the feeling you want to say something Stuey Spencer

I know my opinion is not the popular opinion - I know Neeld has dug his own hole, but I also firmly believe Neeld is out to change this culture and turn this club around - It hasn't happened in the first 18 months - we are playing a lot of inexperienced players or kids, this is going to take time, we have a soft draw for the last 10 games - that will answer for me if Neeld can coach or not.

The board have inside information and know the direction, we already know 2013 is a write off - What I want from this club now is a CLEAR direction. Fixing this starts at the board level they need to decide if Neeld is the man, they need to support their blue print for this club or fire Neeld..... and when they fire Neeld we should fire them for putting this club in this position...

Fixing this starts at the board level ... they need to support their blue print for this club ...

Agree with you, but I think we need to get a blue print in place first. Enter one Peter Jackson.

I say give Neeld all your support at lease until the end of the season. Maybe players not playing for the club the jumper or the coach is the culture he is trying to change.

I say give Neeld all your support at lease until the end of the season. Maybe players not playing for the club the jumper or the coach is the culture he is trying to change.

Support has run out Mr Steve..

Go ask current players & ones that left....

They hate this guy!

A coach needs to embrace & get the best out of his list.....not drive a stake through it!

I have and not one of the current players has told me they hate him, but if you want to be that way, feel free

I'm sure others on here can assist you, but surely your not saying you have not seen any posts on MN's tenure that don't suggest that there are those that believe that staying the current course is the only way to go?

For somebody who doesn't like to be misquoted you do a good job of doing the same.

This topic is "Neeld is not the problem".

Some of us (me) don't believe that Neeld is the sole reason for the predicament we are in at the moment

This topic was meant to discuss the pros and cons

Do we think if we get a 'name' coach in the next week or so the situation will dramatically change?

Maybe, perhaps not

But I am also a realist, personally I don't think getting rid of the coach half way through a season will achieve anything, but this doesn't mean the Club won't do it

If it occurs, I won't be happy, but I will support the Club's decision

But I will also make my feelings known by email and at the next AGM