No the bar is getting set Higher...

the expectations, set for the supporter when they become self destructive, are set lower....

Its the same as social media bullying.. the desires are too impatient, & then become aggressive & effect & interfere with the outcomes...

so they are obviously talking it down, for our expectations...

I'm sure that inside, the coaches & the players desire to improve, & raise the past years standards, would never have been higher, than this year.... this would have contributed to the poor start, with the injuries to key personnel, right at the business end of the Pre season...

Were you asleep when Neeldy said 'I want to be the hardest team to play against'? We have gone from that to 'Competitiveness is the aim.' Your perception as to what is going on compared to the rest of the footballing world's are pretty bloody different! I don't know where you are getting this 'we are building a team of hard azzed glass eaters' stuff from because your rhetoric doesn't match the reality on the field.

Clarkson

That's what I thought.

Another thing I noticed from the post match interview with Neeld was when he said something along the lines of "we missed 4 almost-certain goals, which Richmond turned around and kicked themselves." He went on to say that while it was disappointing, Neeld said it means (direct quotes) "I can coach now."

The Neeld haters will probably pay out on that as a weak statement, but to me it gave a real insight into what these past 18 months have been like. I think our players are at times so poor and disinterested that its impossible for a coach to fix the zillions of errors they make.

After a game in which our effort was right up there, most of the inexcusable (and inherently uncoachable) problems are gone; now we can actually get down to the business of explaining the specifics of what players should be doing.

This is in line with what Chris Dawes has been saying; that no coach should ever have to tell his players to provide effort. Once that obstacle is out of the way, we can get down to actually coaching professional footballers.

Just my take on it.

Fully agree Chook. This might be the clear air that Peter Jackson wanted him to work in.

I also liked the fact that Dawesy explicitly used the phrase 'we can't accept that' in regards to the loss. Exactly the way they should be thinking. Effort is a first step, it's not the final goal.

That's what I thought.

Umm, technically Viney too (after Bailey was sacked)

Dawes spoke well at the post match. Worth a look if you haven't seen it. He speaks with real conviction.

I could see Chris Dawes becoming a senior coach in about 10 years time. He's a great communicator, a great leader and seems to have a very good understanding of the game. I understand he has coaching ambitions, so it would be great to see it.

Who was the last Melbourne player to become a senior coach, by the way?

Whats he doing next Sat arvo?

Whats he doing next Sat arvo?

I think he's scheduled for a 3PM jumping jacks class. He'll be touching his toes a few times too I bet.

It is always great to watch Melbourne v Richmond games on TV. No clash jumpers needed and so easy to distinguish between the two in their TRADITIONAL jumpers. So very different.

My thoughts o the game:

I think people are being a little harsh on Nev. The dropped mark was entirely on Howe. He charged in, blocked Nev's view of the ball and then completely failed to make contact. Nev did make a couple of bad disposal errors in the first half and i'm pretty sure he squibbed a contest he could have gotten a fist into, but he also did some very good things, and he let himself get crunched to cause a turnover that resulted in a goal which is always nice to see.

I was very surprised at the high quality of some of Nicholson's kicks today. He made a few beautiful low trajectory passes that were pin-point accurate. Not at all what I would expect of him. He also took 7 marks, a great effort given it's not really a strength of his.

I loved Dunn's game today. I was very surprised to see him standing McGuan given that he has been their primary target all year, but Dunn smashed him and hurt them running the other way. Great effort from him, and he's clearly much better suited to playing in the backline than as a tagger.

It was very good to see Davey getting so involved. We've missed that beautiful delivery, and he had an impact on the scoreboard. The commentators said he last kicked 3 goals in a game in 2008. Great return for the Flash.

Likewise Dawes was very handy leading our forward pack. As has been said, he wasn't hesitating in his leads, the kicks were floating and forcing him to stop and prop, giving his man time to catch up. Better kicking (as from Davey and Strauss) allowed him to take it at full pace and his man was unable to do anything to stop him.

The inclusion of Jamar and Magner helped us enormously in the stoppages. Even if many of Jamar's taps fall too close and cause our mids to be tackled, it's better than a clear win to the opposition and a clearance to them. His physical presence at stoppages if vital while we get more games into Gawn.

As others have said, how good are Terlich and M Jones? They have both cemented their spots in the side and shown exactly why we needed them. Terlich in particular is demanding the ball and delivering off half back, and he appears to be very nearly fearless. Jones showed a surprising burst of acceleration at times today to get a couple of meters of space when he looked like getting caught.

Overall I was pretty happy with the game today. We fought for it, which is the first thing we ask every week. Every player on the ground gave it a go. Only two had no tackles, and they both impacted the game in other ways. As always it was our transition from HB to HF that killed us. We simply miss too many easy passes and take too many wrong options moving along the wing. Once we can get the team playing with more cohesion we should see these things becoming less of a factor and the scoreline becoming more competitive.

270 possessions. The effort was there today, our defence was good, but we simply aren't getting run through the middle or controlling any games disposal wise. 270 disposals mustn't be much lower than our average, either. We are simply not at AFL standard and won't win games unless we are getting 350+

Were you asleep when Neeldy said 'I want to be the hardest team to play against'? We have gone from that to 'Competitiveness is the aim.' Your perception as to what is going on compared to the rest of the footballing world's are pretty bloody different! I don't know where you are getting this 'we are building a team of hard azzed glass eaters' stuff from because your rhetoric doesn't match the reality on the field.

Are you stupid or something?

He said when he got here, that he wants us to become the Hardest team to play against.. He has a 3 Yr contract. So that to me said he is using his 3 Yrs, to try to build this team into "the Hardest Team to Play Against"... hopefully all going well by the end of 2014...

Not 6 months after he has just cleaned out the Rot that has been eating away at the clubs development.

We are 2 Pre seasons into an elite fitness program which they've previously said would take 3 Pre seasons to get up to an AFL standard...Not the best AFL standard, just the average AFL standard...

I think you just Read, or Hear what you want to, to suit your own agenda... & that seems to be to sabotage what we have just started to build. you & others have continually rumoured that the players don't like Neeld & won't play for him... I'm yet to witness such a thing.

..... I've seen the young kids capitulate this year under pressure, & become overwhelmed thru a lack of more mature bodies, experience, & maturity....

But I have Not seen Once, any player who appears to not play for the coach!

Some are seeing things they don't like (capitulation) & then labeling that as something else that its Not.

In a 3 yr plan, you have many stages to get thru,,,, & this club hasn't been at all good for maybe 15 Years, at the contested ball & clearances.... this is competativeness. & it comprises many things to achieve it.

Stronger bodies & with greater endurance, to be able to maintain strength for longer, & to get to as many contests as possible before rotating. this would help don't you think, in winning the stoppages & one on ones? & generally being more competitive.

As well as a willingness to put the head over the footy, & to go when its your turn... I suppose you want Bennell & Morton back... as well. no, we are heading in the right track, finally. But some just can't see things taking shape until It bangs them in the forehead.

.

cant underestimate the fact we won the 1st quarter against a good side who would have been hoping to bury us in the first 30 minutes

"Our biggest issue is that we get killed in uncontested possessions. Reason - we don't play well enough as a team when we've got the ball."

Absolutely agree, Macca. We do not link up well enough and so have few passages where we hold onto the ball uncontested. Everyone went on about Ellis, Houli, etc... They get so much of because our set up allows it.

I agree many of our players simply make poor decisions with the ball in their hands

A lot panic and ball chase its like watching under 10 football because they are all trying hard but not thinking and taking time

Symptomatic is kicking into man on mark, handpassing to stationery players and turning in to traffic instead of clearing wide im sure thay all have skill(or they wouldnt be there) but cannot make good decisions in the game

cant underestimate the fact we won the 1st quarter against a good side who would have been hoping to bury us in the first 30 minutes

See, I'm not so sure about that HH. A good side? A well drilled side, yes, but a good side? Not really. Certainly not on the evidence of yesterday.

I'm however feeling a bit more confident that we might just be able to pinch a win out of either the Dogs or the Saints. More likely the Dogs.

Didn't look good, did it?

But, Vlastuin is 19 and Davey is 30 and has lost yards.

Jumbo, that is a pathetic excuse.

A number of outlets have been commenting on how Frawley played well. Can someopne please do me a favour and post the last 30 seconds of the game on here please, just when Riewoldt was taking the last kick of the game. The siren hadn't sounded, JR takes a shot for goal (missed luckily) and Frawley just stood there, no hands up on the mark, just standing. I don't care what stage we are at in a game, I don't care how frustrated you are with yourself, your players or your opponent, you DO NOT stand the mark, especially when a player is having a shot, and not raise your hands. It's this onfield sh!t leadership that Rivers showed time and time again, and now Frawley is getting in on the act. Totally inexcusable.

I'll even go one bit further and say that his effort late in the third when JR got that goal right on the siren, that basically ended our chance. JR is a first class [censored], he thrives with confidence and is generally ineffectual when things aren't going his way. For Frawley to gift him a goal because he "didn't think he had a left foot", absolute bullsh!t. Watch the replay again, Frawley had a slight slip, JR got a yard or two on him, that doesn't excuse the fact that Frawley gave up chasing because of this apparent lack of left foot. You can tell Frawley hoped that his teammate would chase, but when he realised that wasn't going to happen, he had to put in the hard ones himself, too late by that stage. This incident changed the game, which frustrates me as it is an attitude problem and not a skill error.

The Chip lovers will get up me for this post, bring it on! I do not make any apologies for having high expectations of our top players.

And one last one, why the fcuk do we continue to play Rohan Bail? He is a liability, is not AFL standard, and should be delisted at the end of the season.

On the positive side, Dawes was very good, and I can't wait to see what level he may go to when Clark/Hogan are in the same side. Also, I hope Matt Jones lives in an apartment - will make it a lot harder for me to look through his windows. I'm growing a concerning amount of man love for this bloke.

Maybe Chip can employ the 'star jumps' technique of our captain when manning the mark. Christ he looks ridiculous doing that. It looks even worse when he's had under 10 touches of the footy and he's out there doing star jumps.

Maybe Chip can employ the 'star jumps' technique of our captain when manning the mark. Christ he looks ridiculous doing that. It looks even worse when he's had under 10 touches of the footy and he's out there doing star jumps.

It's much better than what Chipper currently does. At this point, we'd be lucky to get one hand in the air from him.

Maybe Chip can employ the 'star jumps' technique of our captain when manning the mark. Christ he looks ridiculous doing that. It looks even worse when he's had under 10 touches of the footy and he's out there doing star jumps.

Something is better than nothing P_Man. "Nothing" is inexcusable. It is something that should never be instructed from the coach, it should be a natural part of your game.

I'd drop Frawley for 2 weeks based on yesterday's performance. He needs to decide how much he really wants it, and how much he wants to stay at the MFC. If you don't want to work your ass off for it, then fcuk off. A senior player with a poor onfield attitude isn't going to help this team, hence why I was delighted to see Rivers leave.

Jumbo, that is a pathetic excuse.

A number of outlets have been commenting on how Frawley played well. Can someopne please do me a favour and post the last 30 seconds of the game on here please, just when Riewoldt was taking the last kick of the game. The siren hadn't sounded, JR takes a shot for goal (missed luckily) and Frawley just stood there, no hands up on the mark, just standing. I don't care what stage we are at in a game, I don't care how frustrated you are with yourself, your players or your opponent, you DO NOT stand the mark, especially when a player is having a shot, and not raise your hands. It's this onfield [censored] leadership that Rivers showed time and time again, and now Frawley is getting in on the act. Totally inexcusable.

I'll even go one bit further and say that his effort late in the third when JR got that goal right on the siren, that basically ended our chance. JR is a first class [censored], he thrives with confidence and is generally ineffectual when things aren't going his way. For Frawley to gift him a goal because he "didn't think he had a left foot", absolute bullsh!t. Watch the replay again, Frawley had a slight slip, JR got a yard or two on him, that doesn't excuse the fact that Frawley gave up chasing because of this apparent lack of left foot. You can tell Frawley hoped that his teammate would chase, but when he realised that wasn't going to happen, he had to put in the hard ones himself, too late by that stage. This incident changed the game, which frustrates me as it is an attitude problem and not a skill error.

The Chip lovers will get up me for this post, bring it on! I do not make any apologies for having high expectations of our top players.

And one last one, why the fcuk do we continue to play Rohan Bail? He is a liability, is not AFL standard, and should be delisted at the end of the season.

On the positive side, Dawes was very good, and I can't wait to see what level he may go to when Clark/Hogan are in the same side. Also, I hope Matt Jones lives in an apartment - will make it a lot harder for me to look through his windows. I'm growing a concerning amount of man love for this bloke.

I was talking about Davey's chase on Vlastuin.

But, I feel your frustration about Chip - but, he's our biggest defender at the moment, so we cannot afford to lose him.

Me too, but I'm staying loyal to Mitch Clark

270 possessions. The effort was there today, our defence was good, but we simply aren't getting run through the middle or controlling any games disposal wise. 270 disposals mustn't be much lower than our average, either. We are simply not at AFL standard and won't win games unless we are getting 350+

The boys are one possession per game short of averaging an even 300. The opposition is 97 up on us.

I don't think the differential is as bad as it appears. Fact is one uncontested stat frequently results in another couple.

I was talking about Davey's chase on Vlastuin.

But, I feel your frustration about Chip - but, he's our biggest defender at the moment, so we cannot afford to lose him.

Me too, but I'm staying loyal to Mitch Clark

Yeah, I know what you were talking about re Davey/Vlastuin, but the excuse of one being 19 and the other being 30 does not excuse work ethic. If Flash was running his guts out and couldn't catch him, I'd accept it.

Again, we can't have this attitude of excusing poor attitude, depending on who the player is. Frawley is in out Top 3, would go close to being our best player, that doesn't mean he is immune to doing the things that are deemed "standard" by most clubs.

We are crying out for our senior players to lead the way, so that the kids can learn the right way. There has to be consequences when this doesn't happen, regardless of the number they wear on their back.

Yeah, I know what you were talking about re Davey/Vlastuin, but the excuse of one being 19 and the other being 30 does not excuse work ethic. If Flash was running his guts out and couldn't catch him, I'd accept it.

Again, we can't have this attitude of excusing poor attitude, depending on who the player is. Frawley is in out Top 3, would go close to being our best player, that doesn't mean he is immune to doing the things that are deemed "standard" by most clubs.

We are crying out for our senior players to lead the way, so that the kids can learn the right way. There has to be consequences when this doesn't happen, regardless of the number they wear on their back.

I think that's exactly what happened.

As was mentioned in the telecast there still isn't enough pressure on the opposition ball carrier.

Too often Melbourne players think they are too far away to have an impact so they just jog, they need to sprint and really push to put any kind of pressure on.

I think that's exactly what happened.

We will have to disagree sorry!

But, I feel your frustration about Chip - but, he's our biggest defender at the moment, so we cannot afford to lose him.

Agreed. I see billy's point, but Chip's simply too valuable to let go and we're in a position where we need to be doing all we can to keep players of his quality.

If you were going to call for him to be dropped, there were performances previous to this that were far more lacklustre in terms of his demonstrated effort. I saw yesterday as being more a case of a couple of lapses in concentration (granted I didn't notice the lack of effort at the very end). I can only take him on his word when he spoke about his lack of awareness of JR's left boot.