No use sacking Neeld

[P-man 13,366]

There is another category you've neglected. Those of us who have simply argued that more time is needed before we judge. Some of us have done this without belittling other posters.

Your post is just as belittling as it implies weakness not to have posted something.. kettles... black?

From my point of view, I'm waiting for the dust to settle. If you'd asked me at 3/4 time yesterday I would have done more than sack him. In the cold hard light of day I want someone to tell me what are the alternatives that will guarantee we move forward. We can't afford to slip further backwards.

Fair call. In truth it was directed at a small segment, albeit one that is symptomatic of a tendency on Demonland to ATTACK and belittle those who disagree with you, which I detest, and have since I joined here. I hate bullies.

I only hope the mood changes once our club isn't such a cesspit of failure on and off the field, and everyone is more relaxed. I refuse to believe those guilty are just arrogant [censored].

I completely understood the logic in calling for more time, but I think now, more people are seeing that this situation can not continue as is.

[Moonshadow 17,677]

Paul Roos built Sydney into the club that they are today, whilst also getting them to 2 grand finals, in which they won one.

He left them with a culture rivalled only by arguably the best team to ever play the game - certainly one of the most consistant, in Geelong.

Over a period of the past 10 years, Sydney are up there with Geelong for consistancy and Roos built this, it's his the culture that he built.

It's a culture still going strong, still at the top.

So how much time would I give a bloke who built Sydney and turned them into one of the most consistant clubs in the past decade?

I'd give him as much time as he needs, because the job will get done, the rewards will be worth the pain, unlike at the moment, we just see pain, no reward in sight.

And to think that we gave Roos his worst beating only about three years ago.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Fantastic weak counter argument ????? This is typical of a person unable to sensibly put up a decent reply or argument... Please try not o be so unproductive...

No at all old chap, but when a so called argument has no substance to it at all, then there is not much else you can say. As I I have consistently said, we can wait, we can equivocate, we can ponder, but it will not change things that must be changed for our very survival.

No-one is saying this current playing list will be finals bound, but they are certainly better than what's on display at present. You can wait if you like, but you are likely to miss the bus.

[binman 43,822]

Neeld is part of the problem. He certainly is not part of the solution.

GNF, you certainly have been both vocal and consistent in your views, particularly in regard to Neeld having lost the players (or never having them) I have said that there was a flicker (more spirit) in the last few weeks suggesting that he had the boys onside. Well the first q of the game yesterday snuffed that flame out for me.

I went and cannot recall a more insipid lifeless performance that that first q. The players must take some responsibility but i agree that it is the coaches job (perhaps his most important job) to make sure his team is ready and switched on. In Neeld speak it is the fundamental KPI and he has failed to meet it on way, way too many occasions.

GNF you have been vocal in your arguments for sacking Neeld but for my money your comment i've quoted above is the most compelling argument for sacking him now. He is certainly only part of the problem but as you say he is not part of the solution.

Its funny though, the timing of that Roos rumour. As Terry Wallace said on radio players get hinky when a coach is discussed as being on the way out and i wonder if the Roos rumor was a deliberate attempt to destabilize Neeld given it came in the week of a must win game.

[DEMON FROM WITHIN 46]

Our playing group is NOT capable of doing any better !!! No coach will do any better with this soft sub AFL standard group.... Sorry to have to admit that, but tell it as it is I MUST... If I am attacked for my views ,then so be it ..I expect it from some of those whom write on this site... You are all entitled to your opinions, as am I.

Soxy ever heard of a chap by the name of John Northey he picked up a playing list and got it all the way to a grand final.

Hope is what is needed at present I know you are shattered by our results as we all are but we need hope and a change of coach provides an avenue for hope

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,765]

I reckon some people overate the influence of coaches. We will never get an 'experienced premiership coach.' They are experienced premiership coaches because they pick winners. Malthouse has coached the three powerhouse clubs successfully and one minnow with limited success. Do you really think there's a magic coach out there that will suddenly have them playing good footy?

[Striker475 696]

Yeah, there is.

It's for the supporters.

It's not going to achieve [censored] onfield right now, I agree. But it says to us, us who are putting up with this garbage, that 'well we aren't putting up with this anymore and change is required.' It at least gets the ball rolling. We all go from being despondent about the current problems to going 'well this year is a write-off, sure. But who will help us get on the right track?'

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

GNF, you certainly have been both vocal and consistent in your views, particularly in regard to Neeld having lost the players (or never having them) I have said that there was a flicker (more spirit) in the last few weeks suggesting that he had the boys onside. Well the first q of the game yesterday snuffed that flame out for me.

I went and cannot recall a more insipid lifeless performance that that first q. The players must take some responsibility but i agree that it is the coaches job (perhaps his most important job) to make sure his team is ready and switched on. In Neeld speak it is the fundamental KPI and he has failed to meet it on way, way too many occasions.

GNF you have been vocal in your arguments for sacking Neeld but for my money your comment i've quoted above is the most compelling argument for sacking him now. He is certainly only part of the problem but as you say he is not part of the solution.

Its funny though, the timing of that Roos rumour. As Terry Wallace said on radio players get hinky when a coach is discussed as being on the way out and i wonder if the Roos rumor was a deliberate attempt to destabilize Neeld given it came in the week of a must win game.

Interesting analysis of the Roos rumour. Could possibly be the case, there are many at the club who want him out. I know (as a fact) that Roos has been contacted by the club, and that Roos will coach someone next season. So what I am saying is that although the rumour may have not been precisely true, where there is smoke there is normally fire. I have no idea where conversations have gone between the Board, Jackson and Roos, but I do know there has been at very least "sounding out" talks. Naturaly considering we have a coach in contract any such conversations would be denied by the club. But this being the case you would think that there is a chance Roos coaches or is Head of Football at Melbourne next year. Particularly considering the AFL is highly likely to get behind any move since they now control our club (thank god).

[pm24 451]

ThreeOneSix, on 13 May 2013 - 13:41, said:

Paul Roos built Sydney into the club that they are today, whilst also getting them to 2 grand finals, in which they won one.

He left them with a culture rivalled only by arguably the best team to ever play the game - certainly one of the most consistant, in Geelong.

Over a period of the past 10 years, Sydney are up there with Geelong for consistancy and Roos built this, it's his the culture that he built.

It's a culture still going strong, still at the top.

So how much time would I give a bloke who built Sydney and turned them into one of the most consistant clubs in the past decade?

I'd give him as much time as he needs, because the job will get done, the rewards will be worth the pain, unlike at the moment, we just see pain, no reward in sight.

As I mentioned in my previous post....should Roos get ALL the praise for the state of the Swans after Barassi coach the team in the early 90's and then Eade took them all the way to a grand final before Roos took over. I'm sorry, but the two situations are not the same, but I am also not trying to suggest that Roos doesn't deserve the respect he receives.

Just one final point. What Roos did at the Swans was fantastic and he was/is a great Coach. Roos did it as an untried, inexperienced head coach in his first senior appointment. Just saying.

Edited May 13, 2013 by pm24

[binman 43,822]

As I mentioned in my previous post....should Roos get ALL the praise for the state of the Swans after Barassi coach the team in the early 90's and then Eade took them all the way to a grand final before Roos took over. I'm sorry, but the two situations are not the same, but I am also not trying to suggest that Roos doesn't deserve the respect he receives.

Just one final point. What Roos did at the Swans was fantastic and he was/is a great Coach. Roos did it as an untried, inexperienced head coach in his first senior appointment. Just saying.

True, but what was so completely clear was that from the get go he galvanized a team who were really struggling. Neeld has done the opposite.

The other thing to remember about Roos was that fans loved him from the start and he seemed universally popular (in no small part i reckon because he sold a positive message - not the negative be patient rubbish Neeld has peddled). So much so that IIRC the club were going to go with another coach (Eade?) but were pressured by the members and fans to stick with Roos. It seems history has judged their decision to listen to their fans to be a wise one.

Edited May 13, 2013 by binman

[jazza 1,323]

Interesting analysis of the Roos rumour. Could possibly be the case, there are many at the club who want him out. I know (as a fact) that Roos has been contacted by the club, and that Roos will coach someone next season. So what I am saying is that although the rumour may have not been precisely true, where there is smoke there is normally fire. I have no idea where conversations have gone between the Board, Jackson and Roos, but I do know there has been at very least "sounding out" talks. Naturaly considering we have a coach in contract any such conversations would be denied by the club. But this being the case you would think that there is a chance Roos coaches or is Head of Football at Melbourne next year. Particularly considering the AFL is highly likely to get behind any move since they now control our club (thank god).

so we know roos will take the gc job when its ready to be topped up for finals

does that mean we get guy mckenna?????

JUST SAYING

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

As I mentioned in my previous post....should Roos get ALL the praise for the state of the Swans after Barassi coach the team in the early 90's and then Eade took them all the way to a grand final before Roos took over. I'm sorry, but the two situations are not the same, but I am also not trying to suggest that Roos doesn't deserve the respect he receives.

Just one final point. What Roos did at the Swans was fantastic and he was/is a great Coach. Roos did it as an untried, inexperienced head coach in his first senior appointment. Just saying.

True, but Roos was put in as a temporary coach before mid season, who was there simply to build confidence and self belief in the playing group. He did so well he got the main gig. The board (at great expense) had to renege out of a contract with Wallace to keep him. I might add this was probably the best ever money wasted by Sydney FC.

The point I am trying to make, is that we are now in the same position as Sydney in 2003, they too were a basket case (though not as bad). We too have an opportunity to put in a temporary coach who like Roos will be told to build confidence and self belief. You never know our temporary coach may turn out to be the one we have been looking for. Nevertheless, we would have a jump on the other clubs securing the best experienced coach available. Hopefully that would be Roos himself.

What ever the case there is simply nothing to lose from dumping Neeld today.

[DEMON FROM WITHIN 46]

True, but what was so completely clear was that from the get go he galvanized a team who were really struggling. Neeld has done the opposite.

The other thing to remember about Roos was that fans loved him from the start and he seemed universally popular (in no small part i reckon because he sold a positive message - not the negative be patient rubbish Neeld has peddled). So much so that IIRC the club were going to go with another coach (Eade?) but were pressured by the members and fans to stick with Roos. It seems history has judged their decision to listen to their fans to be a wise one.

Great Post Binman

As soon as I read it, I thought wow that sort of comment inspires hope

[pm24 451]

True, but what was so completely clear was that from the get go he galvanized a team who were really struggling. Neeld has done the opposite.

The other thing to remember about Roos was that fans loved him from the start and he seemed universally popular (in no small part i reckon because he sold a positive message - not the negative be patient rubbish Neeld has peddled). So much so that IIRC the club were going to go with another coach (Eade?) but were pressured by the members and fans to stick with Roos. It seems history has judged their decision to listen to their fans to be a wise one.

Roos galvanised a team of senior players, who would have arguable been involved in a club with a better culture than what have had for the last decade. The situations are not the same. Barassi came in during the 90's to help fix the club and the culture. The Eade took over and helped lead the team to the finals. Then Roos took that list to become a group of contenders. We are like Sydney in the early 90's at the moment. No-one knows how Roos would perform in that context.

How are we to know there wasn't any player discontent post Roo's. The media, particularly social media coverage of the gave in 2002 was no where near what it is today. And why do people keep saying the playing group isn't galvanised and united when every message we here from the playing group, and other anecdotal evidence presented on here, says otherwise???

I'm simply trying to point out that no COACH, including Roos, is a guaranteed solution to the problems that this melbourne, as a football club, are facing at the moment.

[pm24 451]

The point I am trying to make, is that we are now in the same position as Sydney in 2003, they too were a basket case (though not as bad). We too have an opportunity to put in a temporary coach who like Roos will be told to build confidence and self belief. You never know our temporary coach may turn out to be the one we have been looking for. Nevertheless, we would have a jump on the other clubs securing the best experienced coach available. Hopefully that would be Roos himself.

I disagree. We are in a worse situation. Sydney finished 7th in 2002 and had a list that included guys like Barry Hall, Adam Goodes, Paul Williams, Leo Barry, Paul Kelly, Michael O'Loughlin, Jude Bolton, Brent Kirk, Ryan O'Keefe, Wayne Schwass, Tadhg Kennelly.

We are in no way in the same position list wise, or culturally as that team.

We are like Sydney in 1993.

[binman 43,822]

And why do people keep saying the playing group isn't galvanised and united when every message we here from the playing group, and other anecdotal evidence presented on here, says otherwise???

I'm simply trying to point out that no COACH, including Roos, is a guaranteed solution to the problems that this melbourne, as a football club, are facing at the moment.

I totally agree that replacing Neeld will not by itself fix the various ills at MFC. Howver i can't agree that the playing group is galvanised and united. There is no way a galvanised and united team can play the way we have played for most of this year. No way.

Like many dees fans i know about poor sides. I followed the dees through the seventies through woeful season after woeful season. I remember how poor we were under big Carl, mainly because we simply not have the cattle. But the players tried and played for their coach.

I'm not sure what anecdotal evidence you are referring to and the only message from the playing group i care about is what they do on game day.

Galvanised? They had the chance to shore up Neelds position with a solid win, a win that if achieved would have quietened the jungle drums. If they cared for their coach they would have been ballistic in their attack on the ball and opposition. If they cared for their coach and wanted to reduce the pressure on him they would have left nothing out there. To their shame they did the complete opposite.

I get the message loud and clear. They don't care for their coach.

[DEMON FROM WITHIN 46]

It has been decided in my mind the clearest thinking individuals I have read on this site for a long time are Binman & Grand New Flag

[ThreeOneSix 954]

I disagree. We are in a worse situation. Sydney finished 7th in 2002 and had a list that included guys like Barry Hall, Adam Goodes, Paul Williams, Leo Barry, Paul Kelly, Michael O'Loughlin, Jude Bolton, Brent Kirk, Ryan O'Keefe, Wayne Schwass, Tadhg Kennelly.

We are in no way in the same position list wise, or culturally as that team.

We are like Sydney in 1993.

I do see where you are coming from now in regards to where you think our list is now - compared to when Roos came into Sydney.

But, at the same time, we've seen how much a coach can change things in a short space of time with Hinkley at Port Adelaide.

So I don't see why Roos couldn't do the same if not better at Melbourne, we aren't that far off Port in terms of talent.

[Bossdog 2,002]

No you are wrong. Roos does want to coach again. He will be coaching somewhere next season. Melbourne is in the hunt. Take this as fact.

Although Barassi,s period of coach did not produce finals, I think it would be unfair to say it was a failure. Melbourne made the finals for the very first time since 1964 in 1987 one season after Barassi's departure. It is my view we were unlucky not to win a premiership with this group. The seeds that Barassi sewed in culture and playing group may have taken longer than expected to grow, but they did and Barassi was responsible for kicking off two decades of success. Two decades that we were consistently in the finals.

So saying that......Neeld will responsible for our success in the future???????...Will he be launded for our future stars????...because of the things he started someone else will get the glory?????

And I take nothing for fact........ in this world of AFL....until a contract is presented......And why would he give up a very easy life style where he goes to the USA every off season to visit his wife's family?????

Edited May 13, 2013 by Bossdog

[bing181 9,330]

Not sure where all this talk of getting an experienced coach comes from, as if that's some kind of (instant) recipe for success. The current top 5 on the ladder are all teams under first-time coaches.

The 3 teams with experienced coaches, are currently 6th, 10th, and last.

BTW, I'm also in the "we need to stop kidding ourselves about the capabilities of our players" camp. I like Colin Garland, and respect the fact that he's putting himself forward - even if he had a shocker yesterday. But the fact that a 25 year-old 80-gamer like Garland is having to shoulder the load says it all for me. Meanwhile, North of the border, Sydney will apparently have 3 players who have played 250 games together this weekend. Not just 250 games, 250 games TOGETHER. We're all discussing the coach - but with a team built around players like that, you hardly even need a coach!

[[email protected] 101]

Soxy ever heard of a chap by the name of John Northey he picked up a playing list and got it all the way to a grand final.

Hope is what is needed at present I know you are shattered by our results as we all are but we need hope and a change of coach provides an avenue for hope

Of course I have heard of "a chap named Northey"...... (will never forget that "stare" directed at Jimmy after the Prelim Final of "87 when he ran over Buckenara's mark.)..Northey's playing group was a little better than the present one and was a bit of a legacy from the years it was gradually built by Ronald Dale Barassi .. I think. ...

[[email protected] 101]

It has been decided in my mind the clearest thinking individuals I have read on this site for a long time are Binman & Grand New Flag

congratulations are in order "in your mind" ??

[DEMON FROM WITHIN 46]

Soxy how about a bit of comparion to that side Northey picked up

Brett Lovett - Grimes

Ricky Jackson- Blease

Danny Hughes - Frawley

Stynes - No one

Sean Wight - No one

Flower - No one

Your right Soxy Northey did pick up a great nucleas of a side

[Pennant St Dee 13,305]

True, but Roos was put in as a temporary coach before mid season, who was there simply to build confidence and self belief in the playing group. He did so well he got the main gig. The board (at great expense) had to renege out of a contract with Wallace to keep him. I might add this was probably the best ever money wasted by Sydney FC.

The point I am trying to make, is that we are now in the same position as Sydney in 2003, they too were a basket case (though not as bad). We too have an opportunity to put in a temporary coach who like Roos will be told to build confidence and self belief. You never know our temporary coach may turn out to be the one we have been looking for. Nevertheless, we would have a jump on the other clubs securing the best experienced coach available. Hopefully that would be Roos himself.

What ever the case there is simply nothing to lose from dumping Neeld today.

Sydney made the Prelim in 2003 (Roos first full year) and were only over run by the Lions in the last quarter, Stuie Maxfield got onto a clearance at the start of the final quarter and sprayed it, had he put it through they either would have drawn level or to within a goal. Against the run of play Lions kicked a couple and it was game over.

I'm sorry but under Eade the Swans were never a basket case, I think it was to a case of time was up and he and the team needed a change. What we are seeing at our club has not been seen for a long time, maybe Sydney before Barrassi went there.

I agree with you though Neeld has to go now and someone even temporary needs to take over to install self belief and confidence. Otherwise more of this could ruin the players/club for many years to come

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

Pennant: On reflection Sydney were much, much better in 2002 than we are today.

Still Neeld must go and go quickly.