Too early to say we stuffed up (again) in not picking Wines?

[DeeZee 7,363]

The best player in the next draft is a key forward. do we pick him?

No, no and double no.

We are desperate for a quality midfield.

We have enough forwards now with Clark, Dawes and Hogan.

[Satyriconhome 10,731]

We've had a ridiculously poor, largely unexpected shock to the season. Everyone is really emotional. Let's not over-react and lower ourselves, because threads like this are a very bad look for the club.

I am afraid, judging by most of the topics on the board today, you would have to close the board down completely to stop it being a very bad look for the club. But then again it is also open to the, more, shall we say optimistic, supporters such as myself to counter the negativity that is displayed.

On this matter, yes I would have liked Wines, but we didn't, so I move on, don't really care how good or bad he is as he doesn't play for MFC, if we manage to persuade him to leave PA in a couple of years, then I will take an interest

[Yossarian 1,820]

Would be happier with this thread locked until the end of the season. Silly, reactionist bullsh!t.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Yossarian

[P-man 13,366]

Would be happier with this thread locked until the end of the season. Silly, reactionist bullsh!t.

Felt that your input was worth bumping it up though, obviously.

[45HG 1,539]

This thread is entirely misdirected IMO.

It should have been focused on how we have played him when he is (clearly) not ready. Rubbish to say we stuffed up on a pick after 9 quarters!

[Hardnut 327]

The evidence doesn't seem to support this, though.

Would that evidence include a team of 22 Geelong players ranging in height from 175 to 200 cm or so, all of whom seem able to go in hard and also run?

[rjay 24,887]

No, no and double no.

We are desperate for a quality midfield.

We have enough forwards now with Clark, Dawes and Hogan.

I would take best available, if he is the same quality as Hogan, Patton or Cameron you would have to take him. Dawes just may not come up at all and Clark would be a great ruck/forward option.

Trade for a good mid and pick up a free agent.

[P-man 13,366]

This thread is entirely misdirected IMO.

It should have been focused on how we have played him when he is (clearly) not ready. Rubbish to say we stuffed up on a pick after 9 quarters!

FFS.

Clearly I've overestimated the ability of some Demonlanders to take a question in the spirit it was intended. I was watching Ollie Wines tear up his third game of AFL, after two very impressive displays prior to that, and the question popped into my head which I shared on a whim for some input on here, as you would chatting down the local. It's been met with ridicule and big noting from certain posters. Others at least have put some thought into their response.

Mods you can lock this thread if you wish. I can't see it being beneficial from here.

[ignition. 1,463]

What really annoys me is that he came second in the Larke Medal behind Whitfield and averaged 24+ disposal in the championships. I find it frustrating how media outlets and recruiters overate the likes of speed, for example I rated Wines far higher than O'Rourke pre-draft. As Shifter Sheahan say you draft the players with runs on the board, e.g. The basics and stats. Look at Lenny Hayes he was never the fastest bloke, but he knew how to get the ball, how to tackle and how to use it under pressure. Wines is similar in that contest just not as nimble but more bash.

With all that said I rated Toumpas higher than Wines at the time (I had 1. Whitfield, 2. Toumpas, 3. Wines, and 4. Stringer (although was unsure really as I think he in the long run will turn out to be the No.1 of that draft). I thought we were lucky to get him at pick 4 and not to mention Viney was already good friends with him from his days in Adelaide.

So it's a shame to see him killing it, prior to the season start I was hoping and think PA would spend the next two years on the bottom of the ladder and hoping we could recruit Wines at the end of his contract. I'm sure the Melbourne boys probably thought a similar thing.

[Pennant St Dee 13,118]

The best player in the next draft is a key forward. do we pick him?

No best available midfielder, but do your due dilligence and make sure he has some grunt in him and great work ethic

[45HG 1,539]

FFS.

Clearly I've overestimated the ability of some Demonlanders to take a question in the spirit it was intended. I was watching Ollie Wines tear up his third game of AFL, after two very impressive displays prior to that, and the question popped into my head which I shared on a whim for some input on here, as you would chatting down the local. It's been met with ridicule and big noting from certain posters. Others at least have put some thought into their response.

Mods you can lock this thread if you wish. I can't see it being beneficial from here.

My response is exactly what I'd have said to you if you asked me at the pub.

The fact that I don't agree with you doesn't mean I didn't put thought into my post. My position is that he shouldn't be in the side - that was pretty clear after his first few involvements of the Port game. We've handled him terribly and that has lead to his selection already being questioned.

I wish supporters could just look at a player and applaud him for a great performance rather than the perennial need to make it Melbourne-related (this isn't focused on you P Man).

[P-man 13,366]

Not a crack at Toumpas, far more leaning towards "how good is Wines?"

I don't know how I can be any more explicit about that. I've said it how many times in the thread now? Five?

Not. A. Crack. At. Toumpas.

[censored] this. Talk amongst yourselves.

[45HG 1,539]

Not a crack at Toumpas, far more leaning towards "how good is Wines?"

I don't know how I can be any more explicit about that. I've said it how many times in the thread now? Five?

Not. A. Crack. At. Toumpas.

[censored] this. Talk amongst yourselves.

Talk about an over-reaction.

Where in my last post did I say that you were having a crack at Toumpas?

And this line "Rubbish to say we stuffed up on a pick after 9 quarters!" is taken from the thread title - so it's not like I was being unfair.

I agree with what you have to say about Wines - cracking start to the year.

[Axis of Bob 11,686]

Would that evidence include a team of 22 Geelong players ranging in height from 175 to 200 cm or so, all of whom seem able to go in hard and also run?

I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

Sydney, the great contested team of the last decade, had a team that was based around 2 inside ball winners (Kennedy and O'Keefe). It then surrounded them with high level runners.

You need to get out of your head the anachronistic view that a runner = scared rabbit uncontested footballer. That's an old way of looking at it. Now, the hard running players create contests, rather than avoid them. Sydney's runners are able to win contests (mostly), but their prime skill is their ability to cover the ground as quickly as possible. We don't have that ability.

Ollie Wines is an inside ball winner, but he's a constantly rolling tank rather than a high level burst athlete in open space. We are OK for that inside perpetual motion type, and you don't need many of them in your side (otherwise you become slow and get run off your feet).

How many of Wines' type do Geelong have? You may be surprised.

[Hardnut 327]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

Sydney, the great contested team of the last decade, had a team that was based around 2 inside ball winners (Kennedy and O'Keefe). It then surrounded them with high level runners.

You need to get out of your head the anachronistic view that a runner = scared rabbit uncontested footballer. That's an old way of looking at it. Now, the hard running players create contests, rather than avoid them. Sydney's runners are able to win contests (mostly), but their prime skill is their ability to cover the ground as quickly as possible. We don't have that ability.

Ollie Wines is an inside ball winner, but he's a constantly rolling tank rather than a high level burst athlete in open space. We are OK for that inside perpetual motion type, and you don't need many of them in your side (otherwise you become slow and get run off your feet).

How many of Wines' type do Geelong have? You may be surprised.

If Sydney was the great team you say, they would have won more than they have - you underestimate the speed of modern inside ball winners. You also clearly have not studied Geelong's style closely enough - their players love a contest, but use their skill to move the ball quickly without a contest if possible. A skilled kick will cover 50 m in about 2 s - a runner would take at least 5 s - that's how you generate pace from players who look slow on the track!

[Axis of Bob 11,686]

You still aren't reading what I write. Or if you are then you aren't translating those words into meaning. How do you apply defensive pressure to a team that moves the ball quickly?

Also, given that we are talking about Wines' selection, how many of Wines' type do Geelong have?

As a hint, the two answers are linked.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Axis of Bob

[rjay 24,887]

You still aren't reading what I write. Or if you are then you aren't translating those words into meaning. How do you apply defensive pressure to a team that moves the ball quickly?

Also, given that we are talking about Wines' selection, how many of Wines' type do Geelong have?

As a hint, the two answers are linked.

How many do you think 'Bob' and who?

By the way I think there are more than the 2 inside ball winners at Sydney, but then again I think the good ones are inside and out. I would put both Kennedy and O'keefe in that mould along with Bolton, Hannaberry, Jack & McVeigh just off the top of my head.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

No, no and double no.

We are desperate for a quality midfield.

We have enough forwards now with Clark, Dawes and Hogan.

the club needs to trade its 1st draft pick and perhaps the priority pick as well for established quality midfielders. once the midfiled is strong this team will click. a very potent forward line potentially. skip the kids for a year. get some classy midfielders. mfc cant afford another season like this. it will fold

[baysidedave 246]

No disrespect to Toumpas, but this kid has everything we need and more. Just watching the Showdown and he's taken it by the throat with 22 possssions and 2 goals. Easily in the top 3 or 4 on the ground.

"A ready made gun midfielder who supports Melbourne and is Viney's best mate? We'll pass thanks."

F me...

l said this on draft day but its typical of our club, the last decent draft pick is Grimes and we got him at pick 14. Trengove is an average player, lucky $cummy went because he's useless too.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Not a crack at Toumpas, far more leaning towards "how good is Wines?"

I don't know how I can be any more explicit about that. I've said it how many times in the thread now? Five?

Not. A. Crack. At. Toumpas.

[censored] this. Talk amongst yourselves.

Yes. It. Is. A. Crack. At. Toumpas.

You are essentially saying we stuffed up monumentally by selecting him over Wines.

Everyone on this site is impressed with Wines.

A couple of facts though:

1. he went at pick 7.

2. people are amazed we managed to snag Toumpas at all - he was widely touted as top 2 pick for most of the year.

3. Todd Viney would've known all about Wines - and, for much of that time, you wouldn't have heard of him, nor cared about him.

Without doubt, this club has made some unbelievable drafting mistakes over the years.

But drafting Hogan, Toumpas and Viney will not be in that category.

And, by the way, we get it that you like Wines. Toumpas and the Vineys (snr and jnr) probably do too.

[P-man 13,366]

No Ron, it wasn't, but you believe what you like pal. At no stage have I stated outright that we made a mistake in picking Toumpas because to do so after 3 games is clearly short sighted. This was an off the cuff thought that occurred to me whilst watching the Adelaide game, which I thought I'd share on here. If I had any idea it was cause this degree of angst and result in me being labelled a disgrace to Melbourne supporters, I never would've shared it.

[Satyriconhome 10,731]

No Ron, it wasn't, but you believe what you like pal. At no stage have I stated outright that we made a mistake in picking Toumpas because to do so after 3 games is clearly short sighted. This was an off the cuff thought that occurred to me whilst watching the Adelaide game, which I thought I'd share on here. If I had any idea it was cause this degree of angst and result in me being labelled a disgrace to Melbourne supporters, I never would've shared it.

P_Man, you are not labelled as a disgrace, but if you read the board you will notice that the grouping of dissenters is getting smaller and smaller, most posters and readers, like myself are totally sick of the constant negativity, yes we are all aware of where the Club is at at the moment, we don't need constant reminders......unfortunately you hit a nerve

[DeeZee 7,363]

the club needs to trade its 1st draft pick and perhaps the priority pick as well for established quality midfielders. once the midfiled is strong this team will click. a very potent forward line potentially. skip the kids for a year. get some classy midfielders. mfc cant afford another season like this. it will fold

I would be happy to trade the number one pick for a good midfielder, Mitchell, Thomas, Prestia,Priddis, anyone decent.

[titan_uranus 24,975]

Not a crack at Toumpas, far more leaning towards "how good is Wines?"

I don't know how I can be any more explicit about that. I've said it how many times in the thread now? Five?

Not. A. Crack. At. Toumpas.

[censored] this. Talk amongst yourselves.

It's definitely a crack at Toumpas.

If you thought Toumpas was a good player, you wouldn't be asking if we'd stuffed up, and you wouldn't be talking about how Wines would be amazing in our side.

As 45 said, if you wanted to start a thread talking about Wines, why did you link it to potentially 'stuffing up' our pick with Toumpas?

[P-man 13,366]

It's definitely a crack at Toumpas.

If you thought Toumpas was a good player, you wouldn't be asking if we'd stuffed up, and you wouldn't be talking about how Wines would be amazing in our side.

As 45 said, if you wanted to start a thread talking about Wines, why did you link it to potentially 'stuffing up' our pick with Toumpas?

I'm done talking about this and have requested the thread be locked.