On 09/04/2013 at 23:08, Outside fifty said:

To me this is the source of most of our on field problems. It's not that the game plan cannot work rather the way it's was implemented. Neeld has come into a club that had little or no defensive abilities but on the other hand a free flowing attacking style. Rather than observe and evaluate what the playing group were capable of he has wiped the board clean and started afresh with a game plan devised for the Collingwood playing group. in effect he has made a major mistake of going to hard to soon, our players were not in a position to execute such a game plan.This in turn has the players confused and playing with little or no confidence. The net result is that he has either lost the players or is in the process of losing them. He was right in one sense that the players fitness was below AFL standard and given their new fitness levels one wonders how they would be performing today playing their older game style with a slight tweaking of defensive accountability. In other words making small incremental changes rather than wholesale changes. It's my guess that Neeld probably came to club under the assumption that they were an undisciplined rabble that needed a hard task master to pull them into line. This I believe was another mistake. He needed to gain the groups trust first and foremost. Again I suspect going to hard too early. All of this goes someway to explaining the last two weeks of on field performance. What can he do to recitify the situation? I believe he needs to readjust the game plan to a simple digestible one that the players can understand and adopt, something that does not require to much thought but relies more on instinct than analysis. A game plan that will allows them to rediscover their love of the game and with that their own confidence in their ability to play it. With time he might win them back and we might have a team worthy of going to the football to watch.

Dont agree. He isn't telling them to play this way,

His main focus on the weekend was Jobe Watson. And yet within the first 10 mins he had racked up 12/13 possessions. Coaches fault? Not likely. Well, clearly he had the wrong player on Jobe. But all night Neeld was unable to curb his influence.

Our midfield set up was Jamar, NJones, Grimes and Viney for much of the evening. Yet we were slaughtered in the midfield. We don't actually have too many better options in the midfield. IN the second half Sylvia was their for 11 bounces for 2 possessions. Coaches fault?

We have to face the fact that our team is not good. Coupled with the fact they don't try anywhere near hard enough.

The CHampion data stats FWIW said our 'effort' on the weekend as defined by pressure acts was around 54% of the next worst!! That is simply unbelievable to comprehend. Coaches fault??

  On 10/04/2013 at 05:10, jnrmac said:

...........

The CHampion data stats FWIW said our 'effort' on the weekend as defined by pressure acts was around 54% of the next worst!! That is simply unbelievable to comprehend. Coaches fault??

No. But it will be if he keeps playing the same players with the same result. Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different outcome.

  On 10/04/2013 at 05:10, jnrmac said:

Dont agree. He isn't telling them to play this way,

His main focus on the weekend was Jobe Watson. And yet within the first 10 mins he had racked up 12/13 possessions. Coaches fault? Not likely. Well, clearly he had the wrong player on Jobe. But all night Neeld was unable to curb his influence.

Our midfield set up was Jamar, NJones, Grimes and Viney for much of the evening. Yet we were slaughtered in the midfield. We don't actually have too many better options in the midfield. IN the second half Sylvia was their for 11 bounces for 2 possessions. Coaches fault?

We have to face the fact that our team is not good. Coupled with the fact they don't try anywhere near hard enough.

The CHampion data stats FWIW said our 'effort' on the weekend as defined by pressure acts was around 54% of the next worst!! That is simply unbelievable to comprehend. Coaches fault??

It's the Coach's job to make them listen. If they continually do not follow his instructions then he has a communication problem. If his speech was anything to go by I'm not surprised they are not playing for him and not following his instructions. I've heard better speech's from Under 10 coaches to be honest. Obviously our playing group is a joke but the coach needs to be getting a better response than this!

  On 10/04/2013 at 03:47, Chippy said:

The game plan should be simple. When you don't have the ball, stand on your opponents toes. When you do have the ball spread like F**k. and give your team a lot of options.

Sounds simple, but when you spread and turn the ball over you can't stand on your opponents toes. That is half the problem they are caught in no mans land petrified of making mistakes. Considering the supposed emphasis on defensive accountability the whiteboard we saw prematch seemed a little odd.

  On 10/04/2013 at 05:10, jnrmac said:

Dont agree. He isn't telling them to play this way,

His main focus on the weekend was Jobe Watson. And yet within the first 10 mins he had racked up 12/13 possessions. Coaches fault? Not likely. Well, clearly he had the wrong player on Jobe. But all night Neeld was unable to curb his influence.

Our midfield set up was Jamar, NJones, Grimes and Viney for much of the evening. Yet we were slaughtered in the midfield. We don't actually have too many better options in the midfield. IN the second half Sylvia was their for 11 bounces for 2 possessions. Coaches fault?

We have to face the fact that our team is not good. Coupled with the fact they don't try anywhere near hard enough.

The CHampion data stats FWIW said our 'effort' on the weekend as defined by pressure acts was around 54% of the next worst!! That is simply unbelievable to comprehend. Coaches fault??

Why was Jamar allowed to continually attack from the same angle at every bounce, only to get kneed in the chest whilst the ball sailed into the hands of the Bummer's mids?

We could have had JC himself in the centre and it would have made FA difference.

  On 10/04/2013 at 05:30, Tricky said:

Why was Jamar allowed to continually attack from the same angle at every bounce, only to get kneed in the chest whilst the ball sailed into the hands of the Bummer's mids?

We could have had JC himself in the centre and it would have made FA difference.

Perhaps Beamer was the brain of the operation...

The only way to judge what the game plan is at the moment is to watch them practice it at training.

It is not anything like the Malthouse plan implemented at Collingwood, it actually sees the ball taken up the middle often and at pace.

Obviously they haven't reproduced anything like that in a game and struggle just to get possesion let alone maintain it.

But believe me anyone who thinks what we see on the weekend is remotely like that seen at training is just wrong.

Its one of the reasons I get more upset by players not able to execute what is a simple gameplan than anything else.

We are far to forgiving of them and constantly look elsewhere for problems, yes we do have many things wrong at our club but the current gameplan ranks very low on that extensive list.

  On 10/04/2013 at 05:30, Tricky said:

Why was Jamar allowed to continually attack from the same angle at every bounce, only to get kneed in the chest whilst the ball sailed into the hands of the Bummer's mids?

We could have had JC himself in the centre and it would have made FA difference.

Rucks get beaten. You have to adjust. Eventually Jones began sharking Ryder's hitouts. But it took him 3 quarters to wake up. None of his midfield colleagues did though

Neeldy needs to do what either Mick Malthouse is doing at Carlton now or what Damien Hardwick did at Richmond in 2010.

They need to:

1) Either scrap the game plan for the moment, let them just play footy and let them pick up the intended game plan progressively as the players mature.

2) Scrap it altogether and look for a style that suits the cattle you've got.

I'm tired of hearing about complex game plans that will magically win games - I believe they don't exist or at best they are lucky consequences of some other action.

Let's bring any concept of 'Game Plan' back to its simplest form - 'get the ball, kick the goal'.

Next step - improve your own skills, improve them further, and then improve them even more...

Next step - use your improved skills to make getting the ball, passing it, and getting goals easier.

Next step - run and spread, but always go forward in the most direct line to goal, to make getting goals easier.

Next step - watch Geelong, then work to do it better!

PS: if you feel bold, try some strategies at stoppages, centre bounces, and kick-ins - good luck!

I think the main issue is Neeld going to change his game plan, or is he going to persist with what works well at training?

  On 10/04/2013 at 08:07, Go the Biff said:

Rucks get beaten. You have to adjust. Eventually Jones began sharking Ryder's hitouts. But it took him 3 quarters to wake up. None of his midfield colleagues did though

I guess that's the point.

To quote one of my favourite traitors - "Even blind Freddy would have been able to see that".

So was there no instruction from the box or was that instruction being ignored?

  On 10/04/2013 at 00:10, rednblue4life said:

Why cant we devellop Grime trenneres blease tappy and the rest of them like they have done.

Its definetly a development thing at Melbourne did you see that young pie kick 6 on the weekend every team brings in kids that imediatly look better then ours they dont rush games into them ala watts toumpas they teach them first so there ready and dont get sapped for confidence in there first game. We should be trying to pretect the young players till there ready.

I think it's called coaching

  On 10/04/2013 at 05:10, jnrmac said:

Dont agree. He isn't telling them to play this way,

His main focus on the weekend was Jobe Watson. And yet within the first 10 mins he had racked up 12/13 possessions. Coaches fault? Not likely. Well, clearly he had the wrong player on Jobe. But all night Neeld was unable to curb his influence.

Our midfield set up was Jamar, NJones, Grimes and Viney for much of the evening. Yet we were slaughtered in the midfield. We don't actually have too many better options in the midfield. IN the second half Sylvia was their for 11 bounces for 2 possessions. Coaches fault?

We have to face the fact that our team is not good. Coupled with the fact they don't try anywhere near hard enough.

The CHampion data stats FWIW said our 'effort' on the weekend as defined by pressure acts was around 54% of the next worst!! That is simply unbelievable to comprehend. Coaches fault??

players. Generally not motivated to lay tackles and negate Watson -yes coaches fault, buck stops with him.

  On 10/04/2013 at 09:12, Hardnut said:

I'm tired of hearing about complex game plans that will magically win games - I believe they don't exist or at best they are lucky consequences of some other action.

Let's bring any concept of 'Game Plan' back to its simplest form - 'get the ball, kick the goal'.

Next step - improve your own skills, improve them further, and then improve them even more...

Next step - use your improved skills to make getting the ball, passing it, and getting goals easier.

Next step - run and spread, but always go forward in the most direct line to goal, to make getting goals easier.

Next step - watch Geelong, then work to do it better!

PS: if you feel bold, try some strategies at stoppages, centre bounces, and kick-ins - good luck!

Still too difficult right at the moment, I reckon.

1.) Be hard at the ball.

2.) Don't stop.

When they've got those 2 down pat, the first one becomes:

1.) Be harder at the ball.

At this point, that seems to be a good place to 'begin'.

As for positions I'd take the following setup.

When the ball is in dispute and you are defensive side of the ball find your opponent. If you are on the attacking side work into a position to receive the ball. If you are around the ball then go hard at it.

When the opposition has the ball - find your opponent. If you are in the forward line or midfield stick defensive and corridor side of said opponent to form a type of zone formation that makes the opposition attempt dangerous kicks or play wide. But above all find your opponent to slow down play.

When in defense move quickly with confidence if the target is open. Otherwise use patience to hold play. Switch if available otherwise long down the line is reasonable. Don''t overthink it and trust your instincts and skills when a target is open.

When we have the ball run hard and lead for the ball. If a player is leading to open space you should double back and lead on a different angle to protect that space. Particularly on the MCG with wide and deep wings their is plenty of room to get the ball up the line. So work hard and get open.

If you watch finals for most of the last decade they are rarely influenced by a particular game plan. Obviously skill and ball winning go a very long way but in sense of game plan. Both teams usually do the same thing. They man up like crazy putting pressure on the opposition. Good teams have the ability to provide pressure forward whilst also stopping outlets. Right now I'd gladly just be able to stop a team scoring at will. Then they back their instincts and skill and kick and handball to whatever option they can find.

So its time for a simple game plan and for focus to be diverted to the basics of football. Ball winning, application of pressure and skill.

I don't think it's the game plan.

I think it's more straight forward than that:

1. We are getting absolutely smashed in the clearances and never have the ball; and

2. Our tackling pressure has been sub standard.

Fix these two areas and you'll see a better performance immediately.

Edit: iPad typo

  On 09/04/2013 at 23:08, Outside fifty said:

To me this is the source of most of our on field problems. It's not that the game plan cannot work rather the way it's was implemented. Neeld has come into a club that had little or no defensive abilities but on the other hand a free flowing attacking style. Rather than observe and evaluate what the playing group were capable of he has wiped the board clean and started afresh with a game plan devised for the Collingwood playing group. in effect he has made a major mistake of going to hard to soon, our players were not in a position to execute such a game plan.This in turn has the players confused and playing with little or no confidence. The net result is that he has either lost the players or is in the process of losing them. He was right in one sense that the players fitness was below AFL standard and given their new fitness levels one wonders how they would be performing today playing their older game style with a slight tweaking of defensive accountability. In other words making small incremental changes rather than wholesale changes. It's my guess that Neeld probably came to club under the assumption that they were an undisciplined rabble that needed a hard task master to pull them into line. This I believe was another mistake. He needed to gain the groups trust first and foremost. Again I suspect going to hard too early. All of this goes someway to explaining the last two weeks of on field performance. What can he do to recitify the situation? I believe he needs to readjust the game plan to a simple digestible one that the players can understand and adopt, something that does not require to much thought but relies more on instinct than analysis. A game plan that will allows them to rediscover their love of the game and with that their own confidence in their ability to play it. With time he might win them back and we might have a team worthy of going to the football to watch.

Now that makes sense !I think Neeld needs to coach the midfield and Craig should manage the overall game plan / player psycology

  On 10/04/2013 at 13:21, thaipantsman said:

players. Generally not motivated to lay tackles and negate Watson -yes coaches fault, buck stops with him.

Yes the buck stops but really? The players have to take a lot of responsibility.

  On 10/04/2013 at 20:43, Ron Burgundy said:

I don't think it's the game plan.

I think it's more straight forward than that:

1. We are getting absolutely smashed in the clearances and never have the ball; and

2. Our tackling pressure has been sub standard.

Fix these two areas and you'll see a better performance immediately.

Edit: iPad typo

I see it this way. No gameplan matters if you are being beaten in the clearances as much as we have. Makes me wonder why we still have so few inside mids on the list currently.

Jamar taps the ball directly to the opposition midfielder who does not get effectively tackled, and kicks it to his forwards. If any of our players get it they hand pass it around until they turn it over or kick it to a contest which we lose. When the ball is in our forward line we do not get into space. When it is in the opposition's possession we do not man up. That's the way the game plan looks to an observer. It seems to be a combination of baileys hand passing and run and carry style and a scared rabbit indecision style. Neeld's style is being largely ignored. Also, Jamar is scared to kick the ball and always hand passes. This is football. He should practice his kicking.

  On 10/04/2013 at 22:43, Demon31 said:

Jamar taps the ball directly to the opposition midfielder who does not get effectively tackled, and kicks it to his forwards. If any of our players get it they hand pass it around until they turn it over or kick it to a contest which we lose. When the ball is in our forward line we do not get into space. When it is in the opposition's possession we do not man up. That's the way the game plan looks to an observer. It seems to be a combination of baileys hand passing and run and carry style and a scared rabbit indecision style. Neeld's style is being largely ignored. Also, Jamar is scared to kick the ball and always hand passes. This is football. He should practice his kicking.

Jamar taps the ball???

  On 10/04/2013 at 20:43, Ron Burgundy said:

I don't think it's the game plan.

I think it's more straight forward than that:

1. We are getting absolutely smashed in the clearances and never have the ball; and

2. Our tackling pressure has been sub standard.

Fix these two areas and you'll see a better performance immediately.

Edit: iPad typo

Spot on Ron. I was listening to "Crackers" on the weekend and he said a very simple instruction to players is - "if you haven't got the ball chase and tackle". Basic footy.

  On 10/04/2013 at 05:10, jnrmac said:

Dont agree. He isn't telling them to play this way,

His main focus on the weekend was Jobe Watson. And yet within the first 10 mins he had racked up 12/13 possessions. Coaches fault? Not likely. Well, clearly he had the wrong player on Jobe. But all night Neeld was unable to curb his influence.

Our midfield set up was Jamar, NJones, Grimes and Viney for much of the evening. Yet we were slaughtered in the midfield. We don't actually have too many better options in the midfield. IN the second half Sylvia was their for 11 bounces for 2 possessions. Coaches fault?

We have to face the fact that our team is not good. Coupled with the fact they don't try anywhere near hard enough.

The CHampion data stats FWIW said our 'effort' on the weekend as defined by pressure acts was around 54% of the next worst!! That is simply unbelievable to comprehend. Coaches fault??

Most of the points you raise I would think are directly attributed to the influence of the coach. He might not be instructing them to play that way but given that they chose to ignore him isn't that an indicator that he may have lost them as a group?They certainly aren't playing for him. By the by I'm not excusing the players in all of this. We all know the truth is our playing list isn't up to scratch and nor is their attitude.