That's pretty much what I am saying. My initial thoughts about it were that the players need to harden up and get on with their jobs. The fact that they are so disgruntled and bewildered that airing their grievances before 186, at the request of the board, still saw no action i believe saw a number of established players give up on the club completely (frawley and rivers included). To me that's enough to suggest we're better of with a fresh start in that role.

The most successful team I ever played in was a side constantly hamstrung by the administration in terms of resources and rules they made us follow.

We had a motto that was simply "F&^k the Administration" because we knew the same fools had been ruining the place into the ground for years and they were still in power .

Anyway ,we trained more than was allowed by the rules ,we gave more "in spite of" the admin that wasn't supportive of us.

We started winning and made a point not to talk to anyone from the administration after matches when they came to slap our backs after games.

When the players begin to realise that all the off field machinations in the world cannot affect the way they train and play ,that it is them versus the world ,that unity will build .Right now we have too many "B" type personalities .

All this "culture " crap about banning bad boys and guys with spirit has left the rooms silent and listless.

We have an attractive looking team of wimps and nice guys afraid to express themselves.

Our team was involved in a lot of fights on the field ,melees ,etc.

We stopped accepting defeat ,getting pushed around ,walked over.

We made it known that although the colours of our team were the same ,the attitude was now"one for all ,all for one".

I don't know how you build that ,but that is the challenge we face.

That's pretty much what I am saying. My initial thoughts about it were that the players need to harden up and get on with their jobs. The fact that they are so disgruntled and bewildered that airing their grievances before 186, at the request of the board, still saw no action i believe saw a number of established players give up on the club completely (frawley and rivers included). To me that's enough to suggest we're better of with a fresh start in that role.

OK. Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to put your (in my view, flawed) opinion in words. Unlike:

lol, another apologist with his head in the clouds.

See above.

Just like to point out a sample of threads Range Rover has started in recent pages of Demonland:

-Cameron Schwab
-A club in crisis, the AFL must step in
-"I chose to be the wolf" (Bagging out MFC "from top to bottom")
-Cameron Schwab (yes, 2 different threads)
-A calendar of incompetency
-Poll- Schould McLardy, Schwab and Co resign or be removed

I'm all for discussing all aspects of the club, happy for people to dissect the CEO in particular, but we don't need a new thread every time RR wants to start some fresh hate on CS.

I'm interested in the view of those who think Schwab should go.

Let's assume there is some hypothetical perfect CEO. Now, let's assume that we sack Schwab, and immediately hire this hypothetical perfect CEO. In this world, we literally could not have a better CEO.

Now what?

How does sacking Schwab and bringing in the best CEO there is/was/ever will be improve our on-field performance?

I see sacking Schwab as the start of the clean out. It mustn't stop there. It won't happen overnight unfortunately. We need a challenging ticket to appose the current board. That won't be entirely suitable until the end of 2013. We need to appoint strong, successful football people to roles within the FD and the administration. Importantly, we need a strong leader as President, not someone who wilts under pressure.

We also require major changes to our coaching staff. Not a single line coach is proven. Royal is a liability. Rawlings as a backline coach. Really? Who knows what Brown is capable of considering his forwardline is rarely able to get their hands on the ball, due to Royal's inept midfield. It must be said, Brown's forwardline has not shown a great deal of structural competence either.

One brick at a time. Take risks MFC. Do not disappear into obscurity. We're currently teetering on the edge of insignificance.

OK. Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to put your (in my view, flawed) opinion in words. Unlike:

See above.

See previous posts.

Just like to point out a sample of threads Range Rover has started in recent pages of Demonland:

I'm all for discussing all aspects of the club, happy for people to dissect the CEO in particular, but we don't need a new thread every time RR wants to start some fresh hate on CS.

I have no idea why he is allowed to post here. Non-stop nonsense.

I see sacking Schwab as the start of the clean out. It mustn't stop there. It won't happen overnight unfortunately. We need a challenging ticket to appose the current board. That won't be entirely suitable until the end of 2013. We need to appoint strong, successful football people to roles within the FD and the administration. Importantly, we need a strong leader as President, not someone who wilts under pressure.

We also require major changes to our coaching staff. Not a single line coach is proven. Royal is a liability. Rawlings as a backline coach. Really? Who knows what Brown is capable of considering his forwardline is rarely able to get their hands on the ball, due to Royal's inept midfield. It must be said, Brown's forwardline has not shown a great deal of structural competence either.

One brick at a time. Take risks MFC. Do not disappear into obscurity. We're currently teetering on the edge of insignificance.

So by replacing Schwab, we get better leadership.

Which doesn't matter too much, according to you, because we also need a new Board and new coaches.

If we were to replace Schwab and retain the current coaches, would we go anywhere? Conversely, if we were to keep Schwab but get a bunch of new coaches, would that work?

I'm just curious as to how you think Schwab actually changes this, given you've noted your belief that our coaches are poor.

See previous posts.

Sum it up for me. One sentence. You're happy to write a sentence about apologists and heads in clouds, write me one sentence on how removing Schwab will make a difference.

So by replacing Schwab, we get better leadership.

Which doesn't matter too much, according to you, because we also need a new Board and new coaches.

If we were to replace Schwab and retain the current coaches, would we go anywhere? Conversely, if we were to keep Schwab but get a bunch of new coaches, would that work?

I'm just curious as to how you think Schwab actually changes this, given you've noted your belief that our coaches are poor.

Sum it up for me. One sentence. You're happy to write a sentence about apologists and heads in clouds, write me one sentence on how removing Schwab will make a difference.

Maybe a couple...You seem to be saying or of the belief that the CEO doesn't have anything to do with the on ground performance of the team. I say as a way of summing up 'Ask the Geelong FC if they believe that Brian Cook had nothing to do for the on ground performance of their team and for their premiership success'.

Maybe a couple...You seem to be saying or of the belief that the CEO doesn't have anything to do with the on ground performance of the team. I say as a way of summing up 'Ask the Geelong FC if they believe that Brian Cook had nothing to do for the on ground performance of their team and for their premiership success'.

You didn't answer the question. Again.

The question - how does sacking Schwab and replacing him with a better CEO (even the best there is) make us play better?

The most successful team I ever played in was a side constantly hamstrung by the administration in terms of resources and rules they made us follow.

We had a motto that was simply "F&^k the Administration" because we knew the same fools had been ruining the place into the ground for years and they were still in power .

Anyway ,we trained more than was allowed by the rules ,we gave more "in spite of" the admin that wasn't supportive of us.

We started winning and made a point not to talk to anyone from the administration after matches when they came to slap our backs after games.

When the players begin to realise that all the off field machinations in the world cannot affect the way they train and play ,that it is them versus the world ,that unity will build .Right now we have too many "B" type personalities .

All this "culture " crap about banning bad boys and guys with spirit has left the rooms silent and listless.

We have an attractive looking team of wimps and nice guys afraid to express themselves.

Our team was involved in a lot of fights on the field ,melees ,etc.

We stopped accepting defeat ,getting pushed around ,walked over.

We made it known that although the colours of our team were the same ,the attitude was now"one for all ,all for one".

I don't know how you build that ,but that is the challenge we face.

Know where you are coming from. How happy would Dees supporters be to see the Dees winning, even with a few [censored] in the team?

We have become the nice, pretty, boys ( with beards ) soft, losers.

A Saints mate had this suggestion as a start. Relieve the Captains of their role this year and maybe the next and make them Vice Captains under a hard nut like Jones. Jones would lead from the front and the two Jack's could concentrate on their games and gain some more experience. It is very hard for two youngsters to lecture older more experienced players.

Edited April 7, 201312 yr by Redleg

You didn't answer the question. Again.

The question - how does sacking Schwab and replacing him with a better CEO (even the best there is) make us play better?

I'm not going through it any more. I think Geelong's success is due to a very strong club led by Brian Cook as CEO and Frank Costa as President. You don't so we can leave it at that.

The most successful team I ever played in was a side constantly hamstrung by the administration in terms of resources and rules they made us follow.

We had a motto that was simply "F&^k the Administration" because we knew the same fools had been ruining the place into the ground for years and they were still in power .

I like the concept of the playing group finding the common enemy - works for many successful teams, whether it be an opposition, admin, whoever.

Sounds bulletproof in the interview. Such a good media performer - wish he was half the CEO as he is a spokesman

So by replacing Schwab, we get better leadership.

Which doesn't matter too much, according to you, because we also need a new Board and new coaches.

If we were to replace Schwab and retain the current coaches, would we go anywhere? Conversely, if we were to keep Schwab but get a bunch of new coaches, would that work?

I'm just curious as to how you think Schwab actually changes this, given you've noted your belief that our coaches are poor.

There's a chance that if we were to sack Schwab and keep the current coaches, we would remain rooted to the bottom of the table. I believe it's a bigger problem than simply one person, hence my identification of a number of areas requiring potential tinkering. I would start with Schwab, simply because if we get the leadership at the top right that will flow through the entire organisation and improve areas that may currently appear weak. I have three major beefs with Schwab.

1) His business plan mainly consists of AFL hand outs and MFC foundation hero donations. This is unsustainable and frankly not good enough.

2) His meddling in the FD and their day to day operations is Jeff Kennett-like. Hawthorn cut the Kennett cancer out as soon as possible. Clarkson would have walked otherwise.

3) His lack of leadership when the heat is on the rest of the club is simply condemnable. He may have been issued strict instructions from the board to lay low, but either way, this is not conducive to a harmonious and united club.

Anyone who doesn't know what has happened at the club would be dazzled by what he has said in the interview on Triple M.

Those who know better can read between the lines and see where he has omitted certain things and has said things that were clearly politically motivated.

Anyone who doesn't know what has happened at the club would be dazzled by what he has said in the interview on Triple M.

Those who know better can read between the lines and see where he has omitted certain things and has said things that were clearly politically motivated.

All the elements of a great con man.

I would add that in my view our current problems are not related to the talent on the list. We are every bit as talented as Port Adelaide and we beat Essendon last year. The problem lies with the attitude of the playing group and its interaction with the club and the coach.

That's a bingo!

I'm not denying that some of that might involve their relationship with the board and/or the CEO and administration. None of us mere punters who follow the club can be entirely certain on that issue (and I won't accept hearsay on hearsay and glib little second hand anecdotes from dubious sources) but the answers need to be found swiftly and the matter needs to be dealt with decisively.

Don't rely on hearsay or anecdotes - use your own analytical skills and intuition.

I think the madia want heads on pikes and as soon as one goes, the focus will be on the next one.

Now is not the time to sack someone.

It starts a frenzy.

Having said that, Schwab is responsible IMO for bugler, collar, blazer, First and Forever and fancy emblem. Is that who we are?

When I grew up in the '60s MFC was a club supported by many rural folk.

Believe it or not.

Lots of Country People supported MFC and it wasnt a big deal who was "supposed" to follow them.

Now we have bought into a class conscious jackpot.

I dont agree with it as it overstates who we are. We stuck our neck out and it Isnt paying off.

I'm not going through it any more. I think Geelong's success is due to a very strong club led by Brian Cook as CEO and Frank Costa as President. You don't so we can leave it at that.

I didn't say I disagreed with you. I asked you to explain how you think sacking Schwab makes us better?

From what I can gather, you believe that by sacking Schwab and getting a better CEO, we'll just get better, because strong clubs have strong CEOs. Is that it? It'll just happen? Or can you actually say what it is about a strong CEO that will make us better?

There's a chance that if we were to sack Schwab and keep the current coaches, we would remain rooted to the bottom of the table. I believe it's a bigger problem than simply one person, hence my identification of a number of areas requiring potential tinkering. I would start with Schwab, simply because if we get the leadership at the top right that will flow through the entire organisation and improve areas that may currently appear weak. I have three major beefs with Schwab.

1) His business plan mainly consists of AFL hand outs and MFC foundation hero donations. This is unsustainable and frankly not good enough.

2) His meddling in the FD and their day to day operations is Jeff Kennett-like. Hawthorn cut the Kennett cancer out as soon as possible. Clarkson would have walked otherwise.

3) His lack of leadership when the heat is on the rest of the club is simply condemnable. He may have been issued strict instructions from the board to lay low, but either way, this is not conducive to a harmonious and united club.

I still feel that you're looking at off-field administration issues, but when it comes to on-field performance, the change will come with changes either in attitudes or coaches or something.

Your attack on his 'business plan' is rubbish. We've gotten more financially independent and more financially secure. To call Schwab out for making things unsustainable or worse off in anyway is unfair and just ridiculous.

I understand what you're saying about his 'meddling', but over the last year or so that's been much less of an issue. And as for 'lack of leadership', what exactly has he done wrong there? Not public enough? Does speaking out in public define leadership?

I'm not saying Cameron Schwab is a great CEO, or even a good one. Your criticisms, though, aren't exactly strong, and your solution to improve our on-field performance seems to rest with changes in the football department, which don't rely on, or are affected by, Schwab.

That's not a "fact", rather it's a complete fallacy.

By the time James McDonald "retired", there were no players recruited from Schwab's first stint still at the club.

Brad Green (the next captain after Junior) was recruited to the club at the end of 1999 by which time Schwab was gone. We had an entire decade during the Daniher/Bailey years to develop leaders.

During the intervening time the CEO's were John Anderson, Ray Ellis, John Phillips (temporary), Steve Harris and Paul McNamee. Of that lot, only Anderson and Phillips were any good but if you're relying on the CEO and not the coaches to develop on field leaders then blame them and don't revise or distort history.

Schwab was sacked due to hiding salary cap rorts from Gutnick when the AFL held its moratorium. This subsequently cost us draft picks after he was sacked.

I'm eagerly awaiting hells gates next post

So your view is that Schwab's presence at the club is causing the players to be angry/upset/whatever emotion, and as such, are playing with disdain or in some sort of rebellion against him? And that if we get rid of him, the players will effectively say 'Hallelujah' and return to playing proper football?

I'm not trying to criticise your opinion (yet), I'm merely trying to understand what it is about us that drives people to call for Schwab's head.

that's getting close from what i have heard...

The Red & Blueprint failed completely.

Don't rely on hearsay or anecdotes - use your own analytical skills and intuition.

What I can ascertain from what has gone on at the MFC over the last few years is that there are problems at Melbourne which go way deeper than a coach, his players and a game plan. I just listened to Cameron Schwab and he will never acknowledge this simple fact. That tells me he is part of the problem.

He and the people undermining him will need to be excommunicated from the club before we can move on. Unfortunately I think we will be going around in circles for the foreseeable future.

I'm eagerly awaiting hells gates next post

So am i, but it will probably be deleted before many of us get a chance to read it, just heard his brother speak on the news,Colin seems to love the club.

Edited April 7, 201312 yr by mjt