Time to go Mark Neeld

[T-34 409]

I absolutely agree he did a good, important role on Judd. But I'd like to see a decent body of evidence other than a so so season last year, and 2 games this year, one of which where he was pretty awful, before praising the job Neeld has done on him.

Pity we don't all give Neeld the same opportunity based on a decent body of evidence.

He is coming from the very lowest level at a train wreck of a club, he requires time to turn it round, as would anyone.

[jazza 1,323]

at least theres more positive posts today than normal , maybe the support is seeing the light .

[P-man 13,366]

Pity we don't all give Neeld the same opportunity based on a decent body of evidence.

He is coming from the very lowest level at a train wreck of a club, he requires time to turn it round, as would anyone.

I don't want to bang on about Neeld. He's had 18 months. That's enough time to form an opinion of him as a coach.

The players had a dip on the weekend. This alone is an improvement, but when the players putting in effort is an exception to the rule, that remains a concern.

We take what we can get right now. There were baby steps that jumbo alluded to, and indeed once you put Clark, Hogan and Dawes in our forward 50, score lines will start to look more respectable. All I ask for is a continuation of momentum and not to witness a coach bouncing in his seat when the margin is kept to under 100 points.

The effort in the second quarter is a MINIMUM requirement, every week.

Edited May 6, 2013 by P_Man

[Slartibartfast 17,265]

saw all positives also. ron

but then realised monday wouldnt be the same without some extraordinary stat the would prove neeld should be sacked.what would we do without our monday morning SACKING call

This highlights the problem with the thinking on here. Bad performance - sack Neeld, Good performance - MFC finals bound, intermediate performance - react depending on last game.

I think that those who no longer support Neeld would and should not have been influenced by yesterdays game. Many here are glorifying endeavour and presenting it as proof the coach has not lost the players. Such short term thinking is flawed.

What should be focused on is one win and 5 losses. 840 points against in 6 games - that's 140 points a game and that is with a full compliment of important back line players available. One win against a non development club in 28 games since Neeld started - and none this year. An average losing margin of greater than 10 goals this year. A team that plays with little of no system or enthusiasm.

That people are trying to defend the coach based on a 10 goal loss to Carlton suggests the propaganda coming from the Club has been highly successful.

We were very ordinary yesterday (as we have been for the whole season) and that is the product of 18 months under this football department. Thankfully I believe Peter Jackson will not be seduced by the positives some here are highlighting.

When I ask myself if I can see a successful future under Neeld I just can't. When I ask myself where he ranks against the 17 other current AFL coaches he's bottom quartile.

If we are to succeed I believe we need much better.

[djr 1,448]

This highlights the problem with the thinking on here. Bad performance - sack Neeld, Good performance - MFC finals bound, intermediate performance - react depending on last game.

I think that those who no longer support Neeld would and should not have been influenced by yesterdays game. Many here are glorifying endeavour and presenting it as proof the coach has not lost the players. Such short term thinking is flawed.

What should be focused on is one win and 5 losses. 840 points against in 6 games - that's 140 points a game and that is with a full compliment of important back line players available. One win against a non development club in 28 games since Neeld started - and none this year. An average losing margin of greater than 10 goals this year. A team that plays with little of no system or enthusiasm.

That people are trying to defend the coach based on a 10 goal loss to Carlton suggests the propaganda coming from the Club has been highly successful.

We were very ordinary yesterday (as we have been for the whole season) and that is the product of 18 months under this football department. Thankfully I believe Peter Jackson will not be seduced by the positives some here are highlighting.

When I ask myself if I can see a successful future under Neeld I just can't. When I ask myself where he ranks against the 17 other current AFL coaches he's bottom quartile.

If we are to succeed I believe we need much better.

I think sadly Neeld will not be given the opportunity to develop this team beyond this year. It will be the next coach that will reap the rewards. I hope it will be recognized.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Pity we don't all give Neeld the same opportunity based on a decent body of evidence.

He is coming from the very lowest level at a train wreck of a club, he requires time to turn it round, as would anyone.

The problem is that he is taking the side down a coal shaft.

At the end of 2011 I did not think we could have got lower as a Club.

Boy I was mistaken.

I think sadly Neeld will not be given the opportunity to develop this team beyond this year. It will be the next coach that will reap the rewards. I hope it will be recognized.

You actually enjoy the rubbish he serves up week in and week out.

The only reward will be when he is gone.

[jazza 1,323]

This highlights the problem with the thinking on here. Bad performance - sack Neeld, Good performance - MFC finals bound, intermediate performance - react depending on last game.

I think that those who no longer support Neeld would and should not have been influenced by yesterdays game. Many here are glorifying endeavour and presenting it as proof the coach has not lost the players. Such short term thinking is flawed.

What should be focused on is one win and 5 losses. 840 points against in 6 games - that's 140 points a game and that is with a full compliment of important back line players available. One win against a non development club in 28 games since Neeld started - and none this year. An average losing margin of greater than 10 goals this year. A team that plays with little of no system or enthusiasm.

That people are trying to defend the coach based on a 10 goal loss to Carlton suggests the propaganda coming from the Club has been highly successful.

We were very ordinary yesterday (as we have been for the whole season) and that is the product of 18 months under this football department. Thankfully I believe Peter Jackson will not be seduced by the positives some here are highlighting.

When I ask myself if I can see a successful future under Neeld I just can't. When I ask myself where he ranks against the 17 other current AFL coaches he's bottom quartile.

If we are to succeed I believe we need much better.

finals bound after a good performance?

havent seen this writen by posters on this site .maybe i dont read like you

i think yesterdays game didnt influence people that want to get rid of neeld?

NOTHING will influence the people on this site that want get rid of neeld

the majority of posters on this page lament that neeld has lost the players?

this morning positive posters have realised thats untrue and saw that he has indeed GOT the full backing of the team

the negative posters on this page continue to toss up statistics when thier argument against a sacking FAILS

these statistics are meaningless during a rebuild.

the only thing to watch is the lessening of mistakes and the growing of positives

but im afraid the negatives dont see the light because of tainted views about grandstand football knowledge

all in all have a good week

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

I really hope he stays until year end

The entertainment value on here will be golden

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

I couldn't go yesterday, due to a full 18 holes of golf on Saturday - if I had gone to the footy yesterday, I would have become a single man very quickly.

Instead, my dearly beloved bought tickets to the stage show Barassi. Corny acting aside, I just couldn't help choking up during the young Barassi, Norm Smith scenes. 6 Flags in the 50's to the 60's. Then the scene came when young RDB announced to Norm he was leaving to coach Carlton. Choked up again.

Who did we play yesterday??? Irony I suppose.

While I know footy is a different business these days, the one thing the mentor and protege had in common was that commitment to the team cause and endeavour were non-negotiables.

Despite the different footy world we live in today, are those core values so anachronistic in today's footy world?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

finals bound after a good performance?

havent seen this writen by posters on this site .maybe i dont read like you

i think yesterdays game didnt influence people that want to get rid of neeld?

NOTHING will influence the people on this site that want get rid of neeld

the majority of posters on this page lament that neeld has lost the players?

this morning positive posters have realised thats untrue and saw that he has indeed GOT the full backing of the team

the negative posters on this page continue to toss up statistics when thier argument against a sacking FAILS

these statistics are meaningless during a rebuild.

the only thing to watch is the lessening of mistakes and the growing of positives

but im afraid the negatives dont see the light because of tainted views about grandstand football knowledge

all in all have a good week

Its been a ripper. 10 goal loss against a mid ranked injury depleted side that barely raised a gallop to win., Co-captain with a busted collarbone, other co-captain moves like molasses.

I am not surprised you dont want to look at any of the stats during this "rebuild".

the only thing to watch is the lessening of mistakes and the growing of positives

...and pretty flowers too.

[Roost It 1,434]

The problem is that he is taking the side down a coal shaft.

At the end of 2011 I did not think we could have got lower as a Club.

Boy I was mistaken.

You actually enjoy the rubbish he serves up week in and week out.

The only reward will be when he is gone.

At the end of 2011 did you expect the likes of Morton, Bennel, Cook, Gysberts, Moloney, Petterd, Jurrah and Wonaeanirri to steer us up the ladder?

And you call others delusional

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Its been a ripper. 10 goal loss against a mid ranked injury depleted side that barely raised a gallop to win., Co-captain with a busted collarbone, other co-captain moves like molasses.

I am not surprised you dont want to look at any of the stats during this "rebuild".

...and pretty flowers too.

Atypical, belittling condescending tone and content.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

I don't think anyone is silly enough to be happy with our on field results to date

The question regarding Mark Neeld should be - is Mark Neeld the man to lead/educate this group out of the AFL wilderness - Can he mould this team in to a winning team? Are Neeld/Craig and Mission the combo for the MFC?

I personally believe we don't know yet and he deserves at least until the end of the year to prove himself. I am [censored] orf with being flogged each week but I disagree that this club is any better then a bottom 4 list with the experience and talent on hand.

I am going off the top of my head but coaches implementing real change take a good couple of years to get it done. See Hardwick, Malthouse, Blues early 00's etc etc

If the board does a through review fo the FD for whatever reason and says Neeld is not the man I am happy to live with that decision - I won't accept rushed reactional decisions, those decisions will leave this Club as the joke it is currently

Edited May 6, 2013 by Unleash Hell

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Thank the lord RR is no longer a mod.. One can clearly see why.

I'm a bit in between when it comes to Neeld. How Rhino thinks it's all his fault I will never know, but he has made some odd decisions in terms of recruiting as well as how the game plan looks to be.

Whilst this is a thread about 'Neeld', I would like to highlight the fact that the MFC have the worst list in the AFL by a country mile.

No coach can fix the conditioned skill level of players or their ability to make smart decisions. Neeld was given this list and whilst I dot agree with everything he has implemented, it is not him who is making terrible errors time after time. I don't know if people overrate our list or what it is, but it seems pretty obvious that our recruiters over the past 6 or 7 years have completely neglected key attributes such as disposal efficiency and decision making. When you mix that with a losing culture and poor/lazy training habits over several years, it's obviously going to be tough to fix. No coach can fix it in fact.

People bang on about Port Adelaide and how they've turned it around so easily and it's very irritating. They clearly have a much better list than us. The only difference has been the intensity in which they play. They have smart players that make sound decisions. Hartlett on his own is unbelievable and makes a huge difference to their side.

We have shown the required intensity it times to match it with teams. The only reason we seem to end up being down during those times in games is because of our deplorable disposal and terrible decision making. 80 percent of our side has below average disposal skills and decision making ability. Bail, Evans, Mackenzie, grimes, Nicholson, McDonald etc etc.

We have such a bad bad list. There are so many factors involved, blaming Neeld solely is extremely naive.

We've got a long way to go.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

At the end of 2011 did you expect the likes of Morton, Bennel, Cook, Gysberts, Moloney, Petterd, Jurrah and Wonaeanirri to steer us up the ladder?

And you call others delusional

No. But we have gone from 8.5 wins from 22 games to a coach that has delivered 5 wins from 28 games at around 50%. And you know what MFC did all this with all that baggage. And we have got rid of that baggage and gone further backwards.

And thank God we have a well run Club.

We have such a bad bad list. There are so many factors involved, blaming Neeld solely is extremely naive.

We've got a long way to go.

Its a pity no one is actually stating that its all Neelds fault.

We may have a long way to go but you seem to have a bit further to go than MFC.

[binman 42,920]

Bob I'm what they'd call a swinging voter in politics on the issue of whether we should stick with Neeld. If the evidence is the players are playing for him i'm inclined to say we should stick with him but as i have pointed out it's neither here or there what i (or other supporters) think. Results will determine his fate. If the club avoids being smashed and picks up the odd win he won't be sacked. Full stop. A loss on the weekend, followed by some 100 point hammerings then he will go.

But i have to say i'm a bit bemused by the bit i've highlighted from your post bob in so far as those that have suggested that Neeld has lost his players (including me and IIRC you also) have used the fact that the players were not playing with spirit and endevour as proof of this (or at least an indicator).

Yes more than 2 and half games is required to establish players are on side but surely it is reasonable to conclude that if over a period of time they do play with spirit he has the support of his team.

My view? He lost them and there are signs that he may have addressed concerns and is winning them back.

But Bob you seem pretty clued in about the politics of footy. You'd have to agree that regardless of the logic of any arguments that he should go he won't be sacked if the performance by the team fall within an acceptable range - which they will if the team play with spirit and endevour. If the answer is yes i don't see much point batting it back and forth.

I'd also be curious to know your thoughts about the weekend's game. Against GWS i was not confident of a win such was the lack of spirit and endevour. I'm pretty confident based on the same indicators we will win on Sunday. I'm assuming the bookies will have us a favorites. In all honesty, what do you think, do you think we'll win? Will you tip us?

The reason i ask is that if you are predicting a Melbourne win then you obviously have a level of confidence in the team that would suggest Neeld has got the boys playing for him.

I think that those who no longer support Neeld would and should not have been influenced by yesterdays game. Many here are glorifying endeavour and presenting it as proof the coach has not lost the players. Such short term thinking is flawed.

Edited May 6, 2013 by binman

[Bimbo 940]

Re-posted

Mark Neeld has appeared to have correctly identified the appalling long term lack of appropriate "culture" at Melbourne and is dealing with it as his major priority as senior coach.

Melbourne has not had real leaders (or indeed leaders amongst its senior players) since the early days of the Daniher era. Daniher oversaw the change of senior players from Lyon, Tingay, G & B Lovitt, Viney, Stynes, Walsh, Ward, N. Brown, M & S Febey, Leoncelli and Ingerson amongst others

to

such as Bruce, Green, Wheelan, James McDonald, Robertson, Neitz, Johnstone, White and Yze.

Of the latter group I would only put Wheelan, Neitz and McDonald as being worthy successors but am of the view that Neitz and McDonald did not have the personality to impose themselves on the playing group and while they were terrific footballers who gave their all for the Club, could not translate this to ensuring that those young recruits who followed learnt to give what they gave as footballers. As a result of the overall lack of strong personalities the playing list became lazy and self-centered.

I am not convinced that anything like the splendid "culture" existing at Geelong and Sydney could become part of the Melbourne ethos, or that Neeld's approach is the correct one to bring it about. However, the steps he is taking appear to be logical and realistic. I am certain that if this remedial work is not performed, this Club is going to remain about where it is until it folds for lack of interest.

If whose who scream for the immediate appointment of a new coach are successful I accept that in the short term we may win a few more games over the next couple of years, however, without the change in culture it is currently undergoing, the Club is doomed to mediocrity. Unfortunately, this cannot be brought about in a few weeks, or even one season.

Of those who were delisted last year, I noted real gnashing of teeth by supporters over only Rivers, Gysbert and Moloney. To suggest that Melbourne had a greater hold over Rivers than for example St. Kilda had over Goddard is not realistic. Rivers has taken the opportunity to play with a team with a famous culture, discipline and which has real hopes of immediate success. All strength to him. Stan Alves and Greg Wells did the same with varying success decades ago. Gysbert was sadly a victim of the Club's lack of ability to develop young players of promise, which is in part the immediate problem Neeld is attempting to deal with. While our drafting may appear extremely moderate over recent years, how many of those chosen who have not realized their full potential would have succeeded at other clubs? Moloney to my mind is one of those at fault in continuing the toxic culture and if we are to improve long term, he had to go.

Brock McLean is an example of the point I am trying to make. At Melbourne he became noted for doing wheelies in the car park and getting into fights outside drinking venue's. I was delighted when he left. It has taken some years and it now pains me greatly to admit that he is playing excellent disciplined football. It would simply not have happened in the team he left.

Further to the suggestion trumpeted by his critics that this is Neeld's team, therefore he must take all the blame, it remains the fact that 25 listed melbourne players at the start of 2011 are now on the senior list. It will be much closer to being his team after the draft this year, if he remains in power. He has however recruited a number of players from other clubs who are now roundly ciriticised. I believe this is criticism without consideration to the real reason for the drafting of many of them.

Clark is probably the AFL recruiting coup of the last two years. He provides real on and off field leadership. A perfect mentor for such as Jesse Hogan.

Dawes is an intelligent and articulate leader coming from a strong club. His excellent article in the Age set out his understanding of Neeld's focus. Again he is a leader on and off the field (I say that having followed his career with interest at Collingwood). In his one NAB appearance the whole forward line seemed much better structured.

Byrnes is a (multiple?) best clubman winner at Geelong. Again he brings his experience to the club and in my view has also provided good leadership on the ground.

Roden is also an excellent trainer and apparently a personality about the Club. He is there to teach because there are not many others who can (and hopefully play a bit).

Each of the above were picked up for far more than their football ability.

Of the others, Sellar was probably a Neil Craig pick and has played some solid games in defence. Gillies comes from a team with a great attitude and was good enough to play 13 games for Geelong (although I haven't yet seen why) and Pedersen also comes as a senior player with experience at another Club (although again his on field performance has been underwhelming). Only Clarke of this list may be/become an A grader, however, each of them do far more for the Club in the terms of what they bring on and off the training track than a few young late numbered draft picks who would quickly become culture victims (or retaining Moloney, Gysbert, Morton Bennell et al). They have mostly been chosen for the short term in their own careers, but for the long term good of the Club.

Without their potential influence I would despair (even more) about the future of potential stars such as Toumpas and Hogan.

If all Neeld does as our senior coach is to bring about enormous and vital changes in attitude at Melbourne, he will to my mind have been a success. He must be given at least to the end of this year and probably to the end of the next to cement changes, otherwise I fear we are doomed to spend the rest of its existance supporting a team at the bottom quarter of the AFL ladder.

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

The weekend may well have been seen as a borderline pass by those who wield the stick. The performance was still unacceptable but at least the club did not go further backwards. The players did give it a crack. If they did not Neeld was gone.

However, make no mistake Neeld continues to remain one week from being fired................. and rightly so.

Lets not get soft, lets not get emotional. Neeld is not our man. If Neeld was a player he would have already been shown the door. His performance as coach has been horrific. If we were not looking at a mass walk out come season end, I would be happy to give him until round 11. However, the risks are simply too high. Only a new coach with ample time to make a difference can stop the rot and give our players some self respect, self confidence, and give back their natural abilities. Only a new coach can save the furniture. You could easily see what Carlton’s game plan was, but apart from kicking long I had no idea what Melbourne’s was. This is not good enough.

I see no reason why we can't get a coach that can continue to install a better culture AND is able to coach at the same time. These things are not mutually exclusive.

On Trenners, he clearly has OP or some other injury that is debilitating his run and streagth. He must be rested until this is fixed. If that means a season on the sideline.....so be it, but it is simply unfair on the kid to have him in the side as captain, a shadow of the player he was at the tender age of 21. Poor coaching.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Grand New Flag

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Its a pity no one is actually stating that its all Neelds fault.

We may have a long way to go but you seem to have a bit further to go than MFC.

So why then do you keep calling for his head ?

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

What in the hell do you think that will achieve right now?

[jazza 1,323]

Re-posted

Mark Neeld has appeared to have correctly identified the appalling long term lack of appropriate "culture" at Melbourne and is dealing with it as his major priority as senior coach.

Melbourne has not had real leaders (or indeed leaders amongst its senior players) since the early days of the Daniher era. Daniher oversaw the change of senior players from Lyon, Tingay, G & B Lovitt, Viney, Stynes, Walsh, Ward, N. Brown, M & S Febey, Leoncelli and Ingerson amongst others

to

such as Bruce, Green, Wheelan, James McDonald, Robertson, Neitz, Johnstone, White and Yze.

Of the latter group I would only put Wheelan, Neitz and McDonald as being worthy successors but am of the view that Neitz and McDonald did not have the personality to impose themselves on the playing group and while they were terrific footballers who gave their all for the Club, could not translate this to ensuring that those young recruits who followed learnt to give what they gave as footballers. As a result of the overall lack of strong personalities the playing list became lazy and self-centered.

I am not convinced that anything like the splendid "culture" existing at Geelong and Sydney could become part of the Melbourne ethos, or that Neeld's approach is the correct one to bring it about. However, the steps he is taking appear to be logical and realistic. I am certain that if this remedial work is not performed, this Club is going to remain about where it is until it folds for lack of interest.

If whose who scream for the immediate appointment of a new coach are successful I accept that in the short term we may win a few more games over the next couple of years, however, without the change in culture it is currently undergoing, the Club is doomed to mediocrity. Unfortunately, this cannot be brought about in a few weeks, or even one season.

Of those who were delisted last year, I noted real gnashing of teeth by supporters over only Rivers, Gysbert and Moloney. To suggest that Melbourne had a greater hold over Rivers than for example St. Kilda had over Goddard is not realistic. Rivers has taken the opportunity to play with a team with a famous culture, discipline and which has real hopes of immediate success. All strength to him. Stan Alves and Greg Wells did the same with varying success decades ago. Gysbert was sadly a victim of the Club's lack of ability to develop young players of promise, which is in part the immediate problem Neeld is attempting to deal with. While our drafting may appear extremely moderate over recent years, how many of those chosen who have not realized their full potential would have succeeded at other clubs? Moloney to my mind is one of those at fault in continuing the toxic culture and if we are to improve long term, he had to go.

Brock McLean is an example of the point I am trying to make. At Melbourne he became noted for doing wheelies in the car park and getting into fights outside drinking venue's. I was delighted when he left. It has taken some years and it now pains me greatly to admit that he is playing excellent disciplined football. It would simply not have happened in the team he left.

Further to the suggestion trumpeted by his critics that this is Neeld's team, therefore he must take all the blame, it remains the fact that 25 listed melbourne players at the start of 2011 are now on the senior list. It will be much closer to being his team after the draft this year, if he remains in power. He has however recruited a number of players from other clubs who are now roundly ciriticised. I believe this is criticism without consideration to the real reason for the drafting of many of them.

Clark is probably the AFL recruiting coup of the last two years. He provides real on and off field leadership. A perfect mentor for such as Jesse Hogan.

Dawes is an intelligent and articulate leader coming from a strong club. His excellent article in the Age set out his understanding of Neeld's focus. Again he is a leader on and off the field (I say that having followed his career with interest at Collingwood). In his one NAB appearance the whole forward line seemed much better structured.

Byrnes is a (multiple?) best clubman winner at Geelong. Again he brings his experience to the club and in my view has also provided good leadership on the ground.

Roden is also an excellent trainer and apparently a personality about the Club. He is there to teach because there are not many others who can (and hopefully play a bit).

Each of the above were picked up for far more than their football ability.

Of the others, Sellar was probably a Neil Craig pick and has played some solid games in defence. Gillies comes from a team with a great attitude and was good enough to play 13 games for Geelong (although I haven't yet seen why) and Pedersen also comes as a senior player with experience at another Club (although again his on field performance has been underwhelming). Only Clarke of this list may be/become an A grader, however, each of them do far more for the Club in the terms of what they bring on and off the training track than a few young late numbered draft picks who would quickly become culture victims (or retaining Moloney, Gysbert, Morton Bennell et al). They have mostly been chosen for the short term in their own careers, but for the long term good of the Club.

Without their potential influence I would despair (even more) about the future of potential stars such as Toumpas and Hogan.

If all Neeld does as our senior coach is to bring about enormous and vital changes in attitude at Melbourne, he will to my mind have been a success. He must be given at least to the end of this year and probably to the end of the next to cement changes, otherwise I fear we are doomed to spend the rest of its existance supporting a team at the bottom quarter of the AFL ladder.

thanks, i not a good enough writer to enscapulate that

well done

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Bimbo's post is excellent. In a perfect world, that is where we should believe ourselves to be. However, unlike other clubs, who have long spent time further up the ladder, I have grave doubts whether our supporters, sponsors and the football world in general will afford the MFC the luxury of the time needed for Mark Neeld to deliver on his supposed manifesto.

I don't want anyone sacked, but I understand that the imperatives of doing business in today's AFL make it so. Even more so when you are in our position and have been there for so long.

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

What in the hell do you think that will achieve right now?

What the hell do you think that keeping Neeld as coach will achieve? Have you been watching our games? Compare our games this season to the last 6 in 2011 (when we were suposed to be under-perfoming and rubbish). We re going backwards..... big time, keeping Neeld will result in the mass loss of players.

I know as a fact Carlton are all over Watts. I here there are many that are over Neeld and over being a basket case and will ask for trade or take free agency come season end. This could be the begining of the end.

[Slartibartfast 17,265]

Bob I'm what they'd call a swinging voter in politics on the issue of whether we should stick with Neeld. If the evidence is the players are playing for him i'm inclined to say we should stick with him but as i have pointed out it's neither here or there what i (or other supporters) think. Results will determine his fate. If the club avoids being smashed and picks up the odd win he won't be sacked. Full stop. A loss on the weekend, followed by some 100 point hammerings then he will go.

But i have to say i'm a bit bemused by the bit i've highlighted from your post bob in so far as those that have suggested that Neeld has lost his players (including me and IIRC you also) have used the fact that the players were not playing with spirit and endevour as proof of this (or at least an indicator).

Yes more than 2 and half games is required to establish players are on side but surely it is reasonable to conclude that if over a period of time they do play with spirit he has the support of his team.

My view? He lost them and there are signs that he may have addressed concerns and is winning them back.

But Bob you seem pretty clued in about the politics of footy. You'd have to agree that regardless of the logic of any arguments that he should go he won't be sacked if the performance by the team fall within an acceptable range - which they will if the team play with spirit and endevour. If the answer is yes i don't see much point batting it back and forth.

I'd also be curious to know your thoughts about the weekend's game. Against GWS i was not confident of a win such was the lack of spirit and endevour. I'm pretty confident based on the same indicators we will win on Sunday. I'm assuming the bookies will have us a favorites. In all honesty, what do you think, do you think we'll win? Will you tip us?

The reason i ask is that if you are predicting a Melbourne win then you obviously have a level of confidence in the team that would suggest Neeld has got the boys playing for him.

Thoughtful and good post.

To answer some of the questions you raise I'd say that the main thrust of my post was to say that you can't look at things in isolation. One "good" point doesn't negate the whole of the body of evidence that, in my view, stands against the achievements (of lack thereof) of this FD.

I think that over the journey I've highlighted a range of things that have worried me about this coach pretty much from day one. I was on a hiding to nothing then and believe me, I wanted to believe. But his treatment of Davey and Watts early was awful, his appointment of the two captains was awful, his scorched earth approach and disenfranchising of the older players was awful and his handling of the Misfud affair was awful (these are my opinions).

But they did not mean he couldn't coach, they just meant he had some issues with handling situations and people that I thought was poor.

After two preseasons and 28 games his results have been just terrible. He has reduced us to two years behind North and the equal of GWS. We lose games by 5 goals on the road to a team beaten by about 120 points on either side of playing us and he deems that performance good. We lose to Carlton who in the end were playing injury free circle work and demeaned us by kicking torpedo's for goal after the siren and we see positives. Heavens, how far have we fallen.

A win against GCS on Sunday will mean nothing IMO. It won't change where we are - 18 months has established that and one win won't change it. I've seen enough but I was further down the road a lot earlier than others. I happened to be right and I take no pleasure in that.

So I think this Club would be best served by changing coach and I think that should happen in the most dignified way possible. I think Neeld knows in his heart he's finished at Melbourne and his performance now is for his next employer, not us.

That's what I think. Should we thrash GCS and then have wins against creditable teams shortly after I'll have egg all over my face but as I've said before the value bet says that won't happen and I don't want to gamble it will as the damage that has been done and will continue to be done is too great.

We need a change.

[rpfc 28,407]

We need a change.

Yeah, but we don't need it tomorrow.