All the excitement about Hogan got me thinking - sometimes an out and out champion could win a team a premiership. I know some people thought, for example, that any team with Wayne Carey and decent players around him was a shoe-in. I think we had a team with Lyon, Neitz & Scwarz up forward but still no glory.

Is a certain number of champs required to win the GF? Perhaps someone with better memory than me please go through the last 10 or so years and just see if this is the case.

All the excitement about Hogan got me thinking - sometimes an out and out champion could win a team a premiership. I know some people thought, for example, that any team with Wayne Carey and decent players around him was a shoe-in. I think we had a team with Lyon, Neitz & Scwarz up forward but still no glory.

Is a certain number of champs required to win the GF? Perhaps someone with better memory than me please go through the last 10 or so years and just see if this is the case.

Yes & no.

the more the better, but nothing is more important IMO than the hunger for Premierships. nothing else will cut it. the Hunger to go all the way.

party boys can suit themselves elsewhere.

the Hawks it could be said, have thus far failed to capitalise on their talents... 1 flag is not enough from their list, after being at the top end so often.

It was Stewie Dew who broke the doors open for the Hawks flag. a strong hard working effective midfield to supply opportunities to strong forwards.

But it comes down to making the opposition weak.

Yes we need champions but you can't have a spine full of them. We need a star mid and solid units around him. I think our biggest need is a no bull ship no excuses attitude that winning teams have.

Define 'champ'. Surely there's no magic standard, champs vary from out-and-out to common or garden.

Think, last year's GF. Certainly Buddy was the biggest 'champ' running around, but the Hawks had plenty of others (potential ones anyway). How many would you ascribe to the Swans?

I remember my days coaching school footy, the most memorable and satisfying win involved the whole team lifting and feeding off each other's efforts and desire. it's not something as a coach you can easily find the switch to turn on, but when it happens you have pretty much an unbeatable team on the day.

On the other hand, some of the most dismal memories involved teams studded with 'champs' who failed to galvanise the rest of the team and even champion efforts across the list aren't enough when the team as a whole isn't firing.

In short, the more 'champs' (however you define them) the better, but there's something else too. I saw it in the Dees in 1987, under Swooper. The way that team thrashed North in the first final on the MCG, then repeated it against the Swans the following week. The stuff of dreams...

What we need to develop is the same attitude that the Melbourne Storm have got...since their run in with Gallop they have just refused to be beaten or lie down in anything...

Similarly far more than just the Storm were over the Salary Cap, but the NRL turned a blind eye to it, as the AFL are doing to us right now.

The MFC has got to adopt this attitude right now, or we are in danger of fading away...

What we need to develop is the same attitude that the Melbourne Storm have got...since their run in with Gallop they have just refused to be beaten or lie down in anything...

Similarly far more than just the Storm were over the Salary Cap, but the NRL turned a blind eye to it, as the AFL are doing to us right now.

The MFC has got to adopt this attitude right now, or we are in danger of fading away...

Agree. The storm moved on from their disaster by winning. It has nearly been forgotten about. If we continue to lose the stigma of tanking will follow us around for a long time even though we were found not guilty. Winning fixes everything and can create the foundations for new recruits for years to come.

Buddy was the biggest champ running around on gran final day 2012?

A certain dual Brownlow medallist might have a case to argue about that...

Swans have a host of players I'd consider superior to the Hawks, including one who used to be there.

Edited February 24, 201312 yr by DemonAndrew

Agree. The storm moved on from their disaster by winning. It has nearly been forgotten about. If we continue to lose the stigma of tanking will follow us around for a long time even though we were found not guilty. Winning fixes everything and can create the foundations for new recruits for years to come.

I know if i was Don Mclardy i would be sitting down with the Storm CEO and Board right now, if he hasn't done it already and talking through many topics.

We do share facilities...

They could be our greatest asset.

I know if i was Don Mclardy i would be sitting down with the Storm CEO and Board right now, if he hasn't done it already and talking through many topics.

We do share facilities...

They could be our greatest asset.

Plus If I was neeld I would sit down with the best coach in the country and pick his brain.

Edited February 24, 201312 yr by cowboy_from_hell

Yes Craig Bellamy has a lot of the Nom Smith's about him...The Storm plays for him

and the Club know it.

Buddy was the biggest champ running around on gran final day 2012?

A certain dual Brownlow medallist might have a case to argue about that...

Swans have a host of players I'd consider superior to the Hawks, including one who used to be there.

...and that Swan champ has proven it consistently over the long term.

Have the Hawks missed their opportunity? a lot of their key players now over 30, Buddy (maybe gone at the end of year) and Rough in the next group and not a lot coming up behind them.

Yes Craig Bellamy has a lot of the Nom Smith's about him...The Storm plays for him

and the Club know it.

It does not hurt wyl that they had a very good team pre and post the loss of the flags.

Buddy was the biggest champ running around on gran final day 2012?

A certain dual Brownlow medallist might have a case to argue about that...

Swans have a host of players I'd consider superior to the Hawks, including one who used to be there.

Goodes had been injured and his form wasn't great leading in to the GF (I know, I'd been hanging on him with my DT). On the day, he played with the injury and what he showed in bursts was the inspirational stuff of champs. Arguably his contribution to his team under those circumstances was the most decisive in the result, so on the day I would have to agree.

Also after the game and the result, many would agree with you. But leading in to it, more would have said the Hawks were the most star-studded.

It's a most interesting game for analysing the OP question.

6.

No, wait, wait...7.

It does not hurt wyl that they had a very good team pre and post the loss of the flags.

of course it doesn't, and most of them were a bunch of rejects when they arrived.

They learnt.

Something our club has been very poor at for a long time...Teaching the right attitude.

I don't think it's so much the 'champs', you will get a champion effort out of someone like Cotchin or Swan just about week in week out. It's the B or C graders stepping up like Sidebottom, Beams or Vickery that can make the difference.

I know if i was Don Mclardy i would be sitting down with the Storm CEO and Board right now, if he hasn't done it already and talking through many topics.

We do share facilities...

They could be our greatest asset.

I'd like to see us Dees & the Storm enter into a partnership of sorts, as discussed some years back. If it could be made to work out.

After intense mathematical investigation, I have come up with the following Premiership winning formula:

To win the flag, we need n + 1 champs, where n equals the number of champs we have.

Edited February 24, 201312 yr by Chook

Some things work kind of backwards -

You do the things you're scared of, and then after, you find you had the courage.

We win the premiership, then we find out who are our champions, and how many we needed.

I'd like to see us Dees & the Storm enter into a partnership of sorts, as discussed some years back. If it could be made to work out.

My would they want to drag themselves down to our level dee_luded

We need ALL THE CHAMPS.

My would they want to drag themselves down to our level dee_luded

We haven't always been in the depths of hell 'old dee'.

We must be serving penance for something that we did, or didn't do, all those years ago,,,, & largely since.

IMO we have been under the cloud of softness & political correctness in the extreme. (excepting between around 81' to 92'ish) then slipped back.

Now, I sense that currently, we are steady off field, & on the right track,,,,currently!

A partnership: It would be interesting to see how it could all be worked out.

We need ALL THE CHAMPS.

Edited February 24, 201312 yr by Chook

I want to see a team for once, not just a group of individuals running around like we are used to.

A champion team will always beat a team of champions.