Wow.

That sort of attitude won't get us out of the bottom 4.

Sorry Jose it was not well written.

I what I was trying to say is I don't think it matters if we have 5 or 15 in the leadership team

If we don't have good players the results will be the same as the last 5 years.

It is the quality of the players in the group not the number.

No, it's about having the best leaders in the leadership group.

Not the best players.

That strategy would've left us with dolts like Moloney and Sylvia in the leadership group, when they have no place there.

Unless of course you want to remain in the bottom 4.

Your last sentence reminds me of the old saying about which is better, a team of champions or a champion team?

Strong leadership transforms behaviours and creates a high performance culture. Having good players is obviously essential, but with regards to them translating into great leaders, it's a fallacy.

See my comment to Jose above McQueen.

The leadership still has 6 players from last year.

Lets assume those players are wonderful leaders and good players ( which I think they are )

It did not get us above third last, that says to me that unless you have 30 quality players the leadership group will make little difference.

Good players make good teams and good coaches.

Good players are the starting point Without them you finish third last.

Being a good player has nothing to do with it!

It's about good leaders.

My god.

Why is it so hard?

No, it's about having the best leaders in the leadership group.

Not the best players.

That strategy would've left us with dolts like Moloney and Sylvia in the leadership group, when they have no place there.

Unless of course you want to remain in the bottom 4.

At the risk of getting into slanging match Jose

I am talking about have good players not have the best players in the leadership group.

Of course you have to have the best leadership group.

That is self evident by the very title of the group.

What I am trying to tell you is as i have written

"I don't think it matters if we have 5 or 15 in the leadership team

If we don't have good players" ( in the team )" the results will be the same as the last 5 years.

It is the quality of the players in the" (playing )"group not the number" in the leadership group."

Being a good player has nothing to do with it!

It's about good leaders.

My god.

Why is it so hard?

you're missing od's point totally hose

od is talking about good quality players on the list not in the leadership group

he is saying you can dress up the pig anyway you like but its still a pig

good player list + good leadership = success

now he is not saying our current 2013 list is no good, but in good old od style i'm sure he is thinking he will reserve judgement until he sees them on the field

you're missing od's point totally hose

od is talking about good quality players on the list not in the leadership group

he is saying you can dress up the pig anyway you like but its still a pig

good player list + good leadership = success

now he is not saying our current 2013 list is no good, but in good old od style i'm sure he is thinking he will reserve judgement until he sees them on the field

Thank god someone understands.

Yes dc you are correct.

Seems you can get into a fight on Demonland these days when you both agree.

Perhaps I should go and water the plants for a while

Thank god someone understands.

Yes dc you are correct.

Seems you can get into a fight on Demonland these days when you both agree.

Perhaps I should go and water the plants for a while

a good idea. if they are like mine they will be grateful

Your ability to miss the point is stunning. Do you read, or do you just post? Demonland isn't just a way of voicing your ill informed opinion, it's a great way to learn a thing or two as well. I'd start with rpfc, Ben-Hur and Fan's posts.

McKenzie is shocking kick, not even AFL standard.

Call it ill informed, I couldn't care less - it won't make the kid any better kick, he is shocking.

As for our board picking McKenzie in the leadership group, ill put that one up near the Trengove for captain masterstroke.

Jordie Mckenzie is a credit to himself. His first game i shall not forget.

He continued to put his life on the line all afternoon whilst the rest of the team was putrid.

Jordie Mac deserves to be in the leadership group after his game on Goddard last year. He was given a task and he carried it through.

Goddard was completely smashed that night.

Alright, but that's not what he said earlier.

And good leadership and a good culture will make the players better.

They will develop from average to good players.

It starts with leadership, and for that we must select good leaders in the leadership group.

Simply selecting good players will not cut it.

McKenzie is shocking kick, not even AFL standard.

Call it ill informed, I couldn't care less - it won't make the kid any better kick, he is shocking.

As for our board picking McKenzie in the leadership group, ill put that one up near the Trengove for captain masterstroke.

I bet you've never even seen him kick.

McKenzie is shocking kick, not even AFL standard.

Call it ill informed, I couldn't care less - it won't make the kid any better kick, he is shocking.

As for our board picking McKenzie in the leadership group, ill put that one up near the Trengove for captain masterstroke.

Didn't the players pick the leadership group? Wasn't it after Darwin they all voted? And the only two certainties were the co-captains!. That was my impression reading on the various AFL websites.

they certainly had input but the FD would also have input

hopefully both groups' choices were harmonious

There will always be exceptions to the rule but I believe the best players should be annointed before the most vocal, or my bigger worry, those that look distinguished in Pre-season.

Some times (this time IMO) these appointments are made without a kick in anger having taken place and a certain self satisfaction in how Pre-season is coming along.

Maxwell and Vandenburg are/were role models filling in as captains when an obvious leader was just not there. Maxwell grew into it well but Vandenburg was a different story.

We have a dearth of leaders too but unless you are a Mckenzie or Garland Fan, it looks dopey and over full.

Its not Davis Cup...

Do you need to play like a captain to be in the leadership squad? No.

But it is a gold pass when an arguably better player is looking at that position.

Lets assume those players are wonderful leaders and good players ( which I think they are )

It did not get us above third last, that says to me that unless you have 30 quality players the leadership group will make little difference.

So if you have 30 quality players being lead by an absolute narcissistic fool, you will get the same results as having the same 30 quality players being lead by someone who leads by example by exhibiting elite behaviours and actions???

The right mix of the leadership group is crucial to extract the most from the rest of the playing group. The process through which the latest 9 players have been delivered is undoubtedly thorough. If Neeld was going to put a cap on the number, let's say only 5 players, the amount of work required to execute the culture change he's undertaken would be impacted on and ultimately retarded. I'm sure this, like everything else the FD are doing, has been measured to the smallest fraction. If it takes 9 players, then so be it. Those 9 players have been tasked with developing the rest of the team along with the coaching group.

Only then will we have that team of 30 quality players you speak of.

I believe the best players should be annointed before the most vocal, or my bigger worry, those that look distinguished in Pre-season.

"As part of the selection process, players were rated in the 10 most important categories of leadership, which included character, competence and competitiveness."

Well, that's 3 out of 10. Wonder if "being most vocal" or "looking good in pre-season" are amongst the other 7?

So if you have 30 quality players being lead by an absolute narcissistic fool, you will get the same results as having the same 30 quality players being lead by someone who leads by example by exhibiting elite behaviours and actions???

The right mix of the leadership group is crucial to extract the most from the rest of the playing group. The process through which the latest 9 players have been delivered is undoubtedly thorough. If Neeld was going to put a cap on the number, let's say only 5 players, the amount of work required to execute the culture change he's undertaken would be impacted on and ultimately retarded. I'm sure this, like everything else the FD are doing, has been measured to the smallest fraction. If it takes 9 players, then so be it. Those 9 players have been tasked with developing the rest of the team along with the coaching group.

Only then will we have that team of 30 quality players you speak of.

I don't disagree with you McQueen.

I have just been trying to make the point that without a lot of quality players the leadership group amounts to bugger all.

Witness last year.

I don't disagree with you McQueen.

I have just been trying to make the point that without a lot of quality players the leadership group amounts to bugger all.

Witness last year.

Without quality players you just don't win old dee. Witness last year.

It means SFA to the roles the LG have to play.

Yes I think you are

Save yourself the trip and mail it to me RB

I will carry the bet.

But better still kept it in your wallet

Sound advice Old. Rationality descended upon me, and I didn't go to the TAB yesterday.

Sound advice Old. Rationality descended upon me, and I didn't go to the TAB yesterday.

Good move or no move RB

Wait is jamar going to be Brent Moloney in 2013?

Considering Jamar is contracted until 2015 that comes across as a fairly stupid thing to suggest.

I'd say it's more of a Malthouse/Judd type scenario than a falling out of favour one.

Has Matt Burgan been suffering from Dehydration after his stint in NT.

The Latest Post on Demon News.

LEADER Nathan Jones says he is relishing being a leader of the Demons and is adamant he will do anything he can to help drive the standards of the playing group.

Jones and co-captain Jack Grimes were the only members of the 2012 leadership group to remain from 2011. And although Melbourne

has yet to name its 2013 leadership group, which is expected late January/February, Jones remains hellbent on pushing the

expectations set by the coaches and the incumbent leadership group.

Have the club been pulling our leg?

I was about to say "Too Many Chiefs" but Lost Highway beat me to it...

So 1/3 of our leadership group have represented the club in a grand total of 11 games for the club combined...

Because our leaders from the past 5 years have been so fantastic......