Sanctions handed down to individuals would still hurt the club if they weren't guilty of anything substantial .

As an example - Connolly . All we know so far are the 'jocular' comments that he allegedly made . If he were to be punished for just those comments and we didn't stand by him then we'd lose a lot of face - which in turn would damage the club .

I'm with Bossdog on this - there can be no expendables (unless they've done the wrong thing)

Those calling for individuals heads (and I'm not suggesting that you are one of them) are patently wrong at this stage . Connolly and Schwab have done nothing wrong (that we know of) .

The only heads that should roll are Wilson's, Anderson's and the 'investigators''. And hopefully, that'll happen in court.

well said Macca. Couldn't agree more.

The fact that the Kruezer Cup is not top of the pile of this investigation means the WHOLE investigation is a sham.

None of our tactics came close to that one.

Yep , you're right Wyl though we don't know that the investigation hasn't looked at the Kreuzer Cup (hopefully they have). In fact, we're mostly in the dark about what the investigation has looked at and how far and wide they've looked and investigated. As others have said in earlier posts, we're all speculating and obviously hoping for the best .

What we do know is what the media has reported - and it's nearly all about us (and mostly damning in an unfair way) . It's been the most one-sided reporting that I can ever remember . Make no mistake, all the 'Journo's know all about the 'so called' tanking that's gone on for years . I say 'so called' tanking because there is no proper definition. They've just decided (virtually en masse) to conveniently put all other 'indiscretions' aside for now. (which has the effect of not strengthening our case in the AFL's eyes)

I will never view the media in the same way again . Collectively they lack class and have virtually no integrity.

Edited January 6, 201312 yr by Macca

The media has been forever thus.

The AFL know all about Round 22 2007.

They just don't want to touch it.

A powerful Carlton makes them big $$$$

There is a ridiculing of MFC bordering on hatred in some media circles. We are seen by these critics, commentators, comedians - as the club to be cut from the pack in Victoria. The pretext of the 2009 tanking allegations gives administrators such as demetriou (melbourne has no purpose, remember?) an opportunity to further these objectives. sooner or later, renewing a coach, an administration, a 'club vision' - will no longer keep supporters behind a club, and massive debt and disintegration will take that club down the fitzroy path. choosing a melbourne instead of a carlton or a collingwood to enforce league rules fits this strategy perfectly. stynes' gift to us was to re-unite the club and, ironically, not accept defeat. it is this mindset of resistance which will ultimately silence the champions, healeys, bartletts, demetrious and wilsons of the footballing world.

There is a ridiculing of MFC bordering on hatred in some media circles. We are seen by these critics, commentators, comedians - as the club to be cut from the pack in Victoria.

Maybe there's also now a mentality bordering on paranoia in some Melbourne supporter circles.

Maybe there's also now a mentality bordering on paranoia in some Melbourne supporter circles.

that might be but the occurrences are not mutually exclusive.

There are definitely elements of the media with what seems not just an axe to grind but agenda driven spite.

Maybe there's also now a mentality bordering on paranoia in some Melbourne supporter circles.

supporting an afl club has always had a mentality bordering on paranoia

that's what makes the game so great and endearing

the paranoia also works in both directions

if it takes paranoia to stand up and fight for your club against unfair and unbalanced attacks then i'm all for paranoia

vive les deoms

that might be but the occurrences are not mutually exclusive.

I think that's why I used the word 'also'.

Believing the world is out to get us, that Melbourne as a club is being treated differently to another club in the same situation, that the AFL wants to 'cut us from the pack', that the media hold us particularly in contempt, and disparaging individuals who hold a contrary view without rational argument ... they're all elements of paranoia and/or 'group think'.

We've got to get over this rubbish before we can believe we're the equal of other clubs. There's a heap of good things going on at Melbourne now, and I don't really want to be part of a pessimism derived from four years ago.

Edited January 6, 201312 yr by maurie

I think that's why I used the word 'also'.

Believing the world is out to get us, that Melbourne as a club is being treated differently to another club in the same situation, that the AFL wants to 'cut us from the pack', that the media us particularly in contempt, and disparaging individuals who hold a contrary view without rational argument ... they're all elements of paranoia and/or 'group think'.

We've got to get over this rubbish before we can believe we're the equal of other clubs. There's a heap of good things going on at Melbourne now, and I don't really want to be part of a pessimism derived from four years ago.

I completely agree. I want the club to fight these charges like no tomorrow, but I also don't have the victim mentality that many on here do.

supporting an afl club has always had a mentality bordering on paranoia

I think that's a cop-out. How I think about the future of the club is up to me alone. Positive thinking engenders positivism. Paranoia just engenders blame without rationally examining issues and solutions.

I also don't want to fall for the trap where I feel superior and victimised at the same time. I've always thought that's the preserve of Collingwood supporters.

I think that's a cop-out. How I think about the future of the club is up to me alone. Positive thinking engenders positivism. Paranoia just engenders blame without rationally examining issues and solutions.

I also don't want to fall for the trap where I feel superior and victimised at the same time. I've always thought that's the preserve of Collingwood supporters.

paranoia (or as you say bordering on) is many things

it can be a powerful force if harnessed and channelled

it doesn't necessarily have to be defeatist or victim based

one man's paranoia can be another man's truth

i think you are being a little hyperbolic maurie which can lead to delusion just as paranoia can

There's the syndrome of ' victim mentality' . It like paranoia goes to the idea that some one , or indeed the many , are ALWAYS targeting you.

I don't subscribe to that as such. I do believe however there is indeed a feral element of the media ( and they are ably fuelled by the ' nose out of joint' enemy within types ) who are agenda driven to strafe us at any given opportunity.

You can actually be the hunted without being delusional in recognising it.

Maybe there's also now a mentality bordering on paranoia in some Melbourne supporter circles.

You may or may not have been around when South Melbourne and Fitzroy (what quaint names) were cut from the pack. My earlier comment was a nuanced comment and certainly not victim mentality. Your reference to 'group think' is just a throw-away line. I finished up suggesting that Melbourne, through the spirit and deeds of Jim Stynes (and others) would prevail against the dark forces. At the moment, the league still needs the passionate traditional supporter and can't totally go with its orange jumper mentality, but the trend is surely towards a premier league situation (with compliant minnow clubs) and anyone who doesn't recognise this reality is being naive.

Edited January 6, 201312 yr by bush demon

What could equally be argued that instead of falling into that 'Playing victim' syndrome some of us refuse to succumb to the bully . There's no paranoia involved either - the facts are right there in front of us . The media have been almost totally one-sided on this whole issue - pure and simple .

The AFL didn't have to act on McLean's comments . They could have simply ignored them just like they have in the past . Daisycutter is probably right on the money here . AA was out to try and make a name for himself whilst Vlad was on holidays . AA is now gone .

To suddenly say that we have a persecution complex is incorrect . These are very real events and there has not been a semblance of fairness involved . By the media and most probably the AFL .

Edited January 6, 201312 yr by Macca

So if the truth happens to include your favourite player; how will you handle that?

Its pretty hard to investigate someone thats deceased.

Its pretty hard to investigate someone thats deceased.

its actually easy. but it is impossible for him to defend himself.

its actually easy. but it is impossible for him to defend himself.

Thats correct.

Yep , you're right Wyl though we don't know that the investigation hasn't looked at the Kreuzer Cup (hopefully they have). In fact, we're mostly in the dark about what the investigation has looked at and how far and wide they've looked and investigated. As others have said in earlier posts, we're all speculating and obviously hoping for the best .

What we do know is what the media has reported - and it's nearly all about us (and mostly damning in an unfair way) . It's been the most one-sided reporting that I can ever remember . Make no mistake, all the 'Journo's know all about the 'so called' tanking that's gone on for years . I say 'so called' tanking because there is no proper definition. They've just decided (virtually en masse) to conveniently put all other 'indiscretions' aside for now. (which has the effect of not strengthening our case in the AFL's eyes)

I will never view the media in the same way again . Collectively they lack class and have virtually no integrity.

No wonder I lost interest in buying newspapers around 10 years ago.

unbalanced, & always favor the clubs like blues & pies.

No wonder I lost interest in buying newspapers around 10 years ago.

unbalanced, & always favor the clubs like blues & pies.

Well 'dl' . Since sleeping on my closing comment, I've had a slight change of heart ....

I might think about viewing the media in a different light if (in the future) they can show some class and have a semblance of integrity Am I asking a bit too much ?

Well 'dl' . Since sleeping on my closing comment, I've had a slight change of heart ....

I might think about viewing the media in a different light if (in the future) they can show some class and have a semblance of integrity Am I asking a bit too much ?

dunno Macca? only if they can learn to get out of bed from the other side...

Maybe, just maybe a fresh broom thru the journos will strike up some integrity in all their stories, & some re-interest amongst the public.

Well 'dl' . Since sleeping on my closing comment, I've had a slight change of heart ....

I might think about viewing the media in a different light if (in the future) they can show some class and have a semblance of integrity Am I asking a bit too much ?

You're asking for the moon me thinks !!

Well 'dl' . Since sleeping on my closing comment, I've had a slight change of heart ....

I might think about viewing the media in a different light if (in the future) they can show some class and have a semblance of integrity Am I asking a bit too much ?

macca at the moment the print media are fighting like cats and dogs for their very survival

they will blow-up and sensationalise whenever they can just for circulation and advertiser dollars

now is not a time to expect any increase in quality, class or ethics whilst they are sacking journos wholesale and cutting expenses

so yes you are asking way too much (but you knew that didn't you )

dunno Macca? only if they can learn to get out of bed from the other side...

Maybe, just maybe a fresh broom thru the journos will strike up some integrity in all their stories, & some re-interest amongst the public.

The 'Net' is killing off newspapers . And the only way they can survive is by having a more 'Shock element' to their stories .

A comparison of that could be the UK - but the 'Shock element' is more to do with competition from the many other publications .

Publication decreases because of online reading - up goes the trashy stories ...

macca at the moment the print media are fighting like cats and dogs for their very survival

they will blow-up and sensationalise whenever they can just for circulation and advertiser dollars

now is not a time to expect any increase in quality, class or ethics whilst they are sacking journos wholesale and cutting expenses

so yes you are asking way too much (but you knew that didn't you )

Yep , see above

Edited January 7, 201312 yr by Macca

so Bailey and Schwab had dinner

That's it is it?

Wow.

Do we hear whenever Caro goes out to dinner? Who she eats with? (Probably alone).

I would put far more credence on her utterances were Schwab, her nemesis, not involved.