FAREWELL JORDAN GYSBERTS

[stuie 7,374]

I rate Gys, but lets face it. This year Gysberts has been a VFL playing Demon! I don't know whats worse..

What's worse? A talented Demon playing the odd game during an unlucky and injury interrupted year who gets turned on by his own teams supporters and has all kinds of BS rumours spread about his attitude by some wanna be Hutchy's who always seem to have an "anonymous" source who is "involved at the club".

What a load of rubbish. This is a good test for Neeld, can he actually coach a player into form and confidence or does he simply ship out anyone that's too much work for him?

[cooko 124]

What's worse? A talented Demon playing the odd game during an unlucky and injury interrupted year who gets turned on by his own teams supporters and has all kinds of BS rumours spread about his attitude by some wanna be Hutchy's who always seem to have an "anonymous" source who is "involved at the club".

What a load of rubbish. This is a good test for Neeld, can he actually coach a player into form and confidence or does he simply ship out anyone that's too much work for him?

easy mate. as i said, i rate Gysberts! But he had a pretty poor year and when you hear reports of him taking it easy at practise you have to get a little concerned as we are trying to implement a new culture at the club of hardworking players! I would prefer if we stuck with him as he is so young, talented and only had 1 bad year. But I was just trying to put it into perspective with you labelling Pederson as just a vfl player when he was pretty good the previous year too!

[stuie 7,374]

easy mate. as i said, i rate Gysberts! But he had a pretty poor year and when you hear reports of him taking it easy at practise you have to get a little concerned as we are trying to implement a new culture at the club of hardworking players! I would prefer if we stuck with him as he is so young, talented and only had 1 bad year. But I was just trying to put it into perspective with you labelling Pederson as just a vfl player when he was pretty good the previous year too!

Sorry, to be clear, I wasn't having a crack at you, it just seems Gys has become the new whipping boy around here.

Wouldn't read too much into any training "reports", everyone has their own agenda, and someone may have seen Gys training when injured or doing a recovery session once and then labelled him forever as lazy.

He had a very unlucky year. Given a full preseason and a decent chance he can be a great player for us in 2013 and beyond.

[rpfc 27,476]

Sorry, to be clear, I wasn't having a crack at you, it just seems Gys has become the new whipping boy around here.

Wouldn't read too much into any training "reports", everyone has their own agenda, and someone may have seen Gys training when injured or doing a recovery session once and then labelled him forever as lazy.

He had a very unlucky year. Given a full preseason and a decent chance he can be a great player for us in 2013 and beyond.

People writing training reports have their own agenda?

Come on, stuie.

He has not impressed those that matter and that is why there are rumours flying about.

He is talented and we can always use talented players but let's hold our players to a higher standard.

It's up to Jordan.

[stuie 7,374]

People writing training reports have their own agenda?

Come on, stuie.

He has not impressed those that matter and that is why there are rumours flying about.

He is talented and we can always use talented players but let's hold our players to a higher standard.

It's up to Jordan.

Ok, so show me you're proof "those that matter" don't rate him?

Here's how BS rumours start: Random Demonlander wanders down to training once a year, notices Gysberts doing laps away from the main group due to injury, uses his powers of deduction to determine this means he's out of favour with the coach, which of course must mean he's lazy and not "buying in". Said Demonlander then reports this on the infamous 'Land and the Neeldvangelists start their fire and brimstone about how we don't need skinny players who won't "buy in" to the new regime and start insisting we should trade this newly proclaimed waste of a pick for whatever we can get. Then to make things worse, Moloney leaves and Morton is barely sighted, meaning a new whipping boy must be found post-haste, so the skinny newly 21 year old cops it as he's not a nuggety "trier" who has come through the VFL.

Don't get rumours confused with facts. There are rumours flying around, NOT facts.

[nutbean 8,837]

What a load of rubbish. This is a good test for Neeld, can he actually coach a player into form and confidence or does he simply ship out anyone that's too much work for him?

I have neither been critical or complimentary of JG but I am damning of this post.

No, it is not up to Neeld to coach a player into form and confidence - it is up to the PLAYER to play with form and confidence. When a player is out of form and confidence do we simply blame the coach because its too much work for a footballer to actually take responsibility for his efforts and form ????

[old55 21,347]

Ok, so show me you're proof "those that matter" don't rate him?

Takes forever to get a game for MFC when coming back from injury - compared with Tapscott, Jetta and Strauss who were virtually straight in. Lasts one game after being promoted.

[stuie 7,374]

I have neither been critical or complimentary of JG but I am damning of this post.

No, it is not up to Neeld to coach a player into form and confidence - it is up to the PLAYER to play with form and confidence. When a player is out of form and confidence do we simply blame the coach because its too much work for a footballer to actually take responsibility for his efforts and form ????

Lol... So what exactly does Neeld do for a job mate? Is he just our post game press conference rep?

It IS his job to COACH and teach the young players. If Gysberts had little talent I would agree with you, but it's pretty clear he does so Neeld needs to roll up his sleeves and work with him as per his job description, and if Jordan flat out refuses to do what the coach says then he gets moved on.

[old55 21,347]

Lol... So what exactly does Neeld do for a job mate? Is he just our post game press conference rep?

It IS his job to COACH and teach the young players. If Gysberts had little talent I would agree with you, but it's pretty clear he does so Neeld needs to roll up his sleeves and work with him as per his job description, and if Jordan flat out refuses to do what the coach says then he gets moved on.

Maybe that already happened?

[stuie 7,374]

Takes forever to get a game for MFC when coming back from injury - compared with Tapscott, Jetta and Strauss who were virtually straight in. Lasts one game after being promoted.

Lol. A few weeks of games after coming back from a broken jaw is hardly "forever" mate.

And gee, I wonder if not being able to eat properly for 3 weeks hindered his fitness at all and made it hard for him to run out AFL games? Hmmmm...

[stuie 7,374]

Maybe that already happened?

Maybe it did. No one here knows. That's my point. But if that did happen I would be the first one stamping his bust ticket.

Then again, maybe he had an interrupted year and deserves a real pre-season and a few games to prove either way first before 'Land crucifies him.

[nutbean 8,837]

Lol... So what exactly does Neeld do for a job mate? Is he just our post game press conference rep?

It IS his job to COACH and teach the young players. If Gysberts had little talent I would agree with you, but it's pretty clear he does so Neeld needs to roll up his sleeves and work with him as per his job description, and if Jordan flat out refuses to do what the coach says then he gets moved on.

His job is make strategic decisions on and off the field, tactical decisions and game plans. Coaching and teaching them to be better player is a big part of the job. But it is incumbent on the players to do what you expect of Neeld - roll up the sleeves and present in the best physical condition, do the work required to make the most of the teaching.

People are far to forgiving on players and confuse the coaches and players responsibility. Moloney said in an interview that he did not want to be at the MFC this year. That is HIS fault not the coaches.

Footballers are paid big bucks and for this they need to have some "skin in the game"- be responsible for their form.

edit- FWIW - I think he is a keeper and would like to see what a completely injury free preseason would yield

Edited October 23, 2012 by nutbean

[binman 38,164]

Lol... So what exactly does Neeld do for a job mate? Is he just our post game press conference rep?

It IS his job to COACH and teach the young players. If Gysberts had little talent I would agree with you, but it's pretty clear he does so Neeld needs to roll up his sleeves and work with him as per his job description, and if Jordan flat out refuses to do what the coach says then he gets moved on.

Neeld has had a whole season to assess JG. My guess is that a key criteria is willingness to put in the required work to get to AFL standard fitness. perhaps i'm wrong but you seem to imply that Neeld hasn't "rolled up his sleeves"and work with him. I would argue he has and the indications are that Gysberts has not responded.

This is not high school where you have to keep a student on - if Neelds assesment is that JG is not doing the work or won't in the future then why waste time and resources trying to convince him of the need to do so. I agree development is an important part of an AFL coaches role but so is making tough calls. Neeld made clear when he got the job all players were on notice. I suspect players such as Cook and Gysberts have been given theirs. They had their chance to impress, were given developmetn support and hvae not stepped up.

[PaulRB 5,947]

On available evidence, Jordie is being shopped around for a worse pick than we paid to recruit him.

That seems to indicate to me that the MFC are disappointed in his progress/attitude/whatever, despite injuries etc...

The coach creates an environment where professional sportsmen can be successfull, the individual players can then take full advantage of this environment, or not.

Would be a shame if Jordie chose not to.

[stuie 7,374]

His job is make strategic decisions on and off the field, tactical decisions and game plans. Coaching and teaching them to be better player is a big part of the job. But it is incumbent on the players to do what you expect of Neeld - roll up the sleeves and present in the best physical condition, do the work required to make the most of the teaching.

People are far to forgiving on players and confuse the coaches and players responsibility. Moloney said in an interview that he did not want to be at the MFC this year. That is HIS fault not the coaches.

Footballers are paid big bucks and for this they need to have some "skin in the game"- be responsible for their form.

Moloney and players pay have nothing to do with this, don't try and confuse the argument.

Gysberts is barely 21. 100% agree that as a professional athlete he needs to tick all the boxes preparation and fitness wise, but if that was entirely up to them to learn why would we have so many coaches and fitness staff? The young guys need to be taught what it takes and learn about the game from the people we employ to do so. If they're unwilling they get moved on.

So by your reasoning, Neeld should just show up on game day and let the players run training by themselves?

[stuie 7,374]

Neeld has had a whole season to assess JG. My guess is that a key criteria is willingness to put in the required work to get to AFL standard fitness. perhaps i'm wrong but you seem to imply that Neeld hasn't "rolled up his sleeves"and work with him. I would argue he has and the indications are that Gysberts has not responded.

This is not high school where you have to keep a student on - if Neelds assesment is that JG is not doing the work or won't in the future then why waste time and resources trying to convince him of the need to do so. I agree development is an important part of an AFL coaches role but so is making tough calls. Neeld made clear when he got the job all players were on notice. I suspect players such as Cook and Gysberts have been given theirs. They had their chance to impress, were given developmetn support and hvae not stepped up.

JG has had an extremely unlucky and injury interrupted year, and I would hope Neeld would recognize that that alone is not fair to judge him on. That is also the reason why I think Neeld should be cracking the whip at him this preseason and seeing how he reacts, which is what I mean by "rolling up his sleeves".

IMO Jordan has shown enough to prove he wouldn't be a "waste of time and resources" should he be willing to follow orders and do the work. This is where I see him as different to Cook who IMO has not shown enough at all.

After 1 season under a "real" coach I don't think it's fair to say he's had more than enough teaching and development. If he refuses to do the work then he's gone without hesitation, but if he does then we have a gun player. Give him a chance to have a clear run at it and see what he can do.

I believe Neeld and Mission can make him a player.

[beelzebub 22,225]

Everyone at the club gets paid a lot of money to do their respective jobs. i CAN see Neeld doing his, ive seen little in terms of results for JG having done his.

Take the emotion out of it Stuie..theyre all just widgets..like it or not, thats all they are, parts of a puzzle. he might be a mate of yours and thats fine but it has absolutely nothing to do with how or why a player ought to be regarded.

There is only ONE....ONE barometer at the end of the day and thats results. Everyone at the club will live or fall by them and so far Jordans got sfa runs on the board.

All the ability and potential in the world means bugger all if you cant translate it. I for one and sick and tired of this club hanging on to nqrs, wannabes and those with boundless potential just in case one day they MIGHT step up..

its the clubs business and right to make a call on players and if they have made it already on Jordan then so be it; either way. He goes or he stays and works his butt off.

I dont care. My only wish is for a successful team. I could care neither who plays or who coaches.

There is only room for X number of players. Thats made up of est players , those in the system trying to become est and those new to the ranks. Theres always to be a balance and comings and goings.

MN has shown by his targeting of types that hes only interested in solid bodied players with good skills, good thinking and above all else a second to none work ethic and desire to be the best, for themselves and for the jumper they wear.

Some players may well look back one day and rue their lost opportunity at Melbourne. Time will soon tell if one will be Jordan

[stuie 7,374]

On available evidence, Jordie is being shopped around for a worse pick than we paid to recruit him.

That seems to indicate to me that the MFC are disappointed in his progress/attitude/whatever, despite injuries etc...

The coach creates an environment where professional sportsmen can be successfull, the individual players can then take full advantage of this environment, or not.

Would be a shame if Jordie chose not to.

No, it indicates his market value based on this year. Dawes was worth pick 20, but for some reason Collingwood still let him go, wouldn't you think they would hang on to a player valued so highly? Flawed logic mate.

[stuie 7,374]

Everyone at the club gets paid a lot of money to do their respective jobs. i CAN see Neeld doing his, ive seen little in terms of results for JG having done his.

Take the emotion out of it Stuie..theyre all just widgets..like it or not, thats all they are, parts of a puzzle. he might be a mate of yours and thats fine but it has absolutely nothing to do with how or why a player ought to be regarded.

There is only ONE....ONE barometer at the end of the day and thats results. Everyone at the club will live or fall by them and so far Jordans got sfa runs on the board.

All the ability and potential in the world means bugger all if you cant translate it. I for one and sick and tired of this club hanging on to nqrs, wannabes and those with boundless potential just in case one day they MIGHT step up..

its the clubs business and right to make a call on players and if they have made it already on Jordan then so be it; either way. He goes or he stays and works his butt off.

I dont care. My only wish is for a successful team. I could care neither who plays or who coaches.

There is only room for X number of players. Thats made up of est players , those in the system trying to become est and those new to the ranks. Theres always to be a balance and comings and goings.

MN has shown by his targeting of types that hes only interested in solid bodied players with good skills, good thinking and above all else a second to none work ethic and desire to be the best, for themselves and for the jumper they wear.

Some players may well look back one day and rue their lost opportunity at Melbourne. Time will soon tell if one will be Jordan

Look, I agree with your points. I just think it would be a shame if a talented 21 year old player was shipped out after an unlucky first year under a new coach (unless he wasn't buying in).

Many more senior players struggled with injury and form this year, but for some reason all the attention is on this kid.

I'm not saying he's 100% gonna make it, but i think he has enough talent to gamble on one more year if the attitude is right.

[nutbean 8,837]

Moloney and players pay have nothing to do with this, don't try and confuse the argument.

Gysberts is barely 21. 100% agree that as a professional athlete he needs to tick all the boxes preparation and fitness wise, but if that was entirely up to them to learn why would we have so many coaches and fitness staff? The young guys need to be taught what it takes and learn about the game from the people we employ to do so. If they're unwilling they get moved on.

So by your reasoning, Neeld should just show up on game day and let the players run training by themselves?

100% agree that as a professional athlete he needs to tick all the boxes preparation and fitness wise - on that we both agree

The young guys need to be taught what it takes and learn about the game from the people we employ to do so- on that we both agree

If they're unwilling they get moved on.-thats the big one on which we both agree but our definitions maybe different - players that work their tail off and do what their coaches say, in the main, will have some semblance of success-be it turning into a star or an honest plodder that plays a roll for the team.

Attitude,willingness to be fittest and the desire to be the best the player can be are something that comes from within each player and if any of these attributes are missing it is the players failing not the coach.

[beelzebub 22,225]

Look, I agree with your points. I just think it would be a shame if a talented 21 year old player was shipped out after an unlucky first year under a new coach (unless he wasn't buying in).

Many more senior players struggled with injury and form this year, but for some reason all the attention is on this kid.

I'm not saying he's 100% gonna make it, but i think he has enough talent to gamble on one more year if the attitude is right.

Stuie, if hes been marked "keep -for now" then great . I actually believe and trust this mob ( aka as the MFC -FD ) have an idea about what they are doing. I do also think they are refining it as they go. This would be perfectly normal mo for any reasonably intelligent outfit.

JG does have 'something' . He has to bring it. Only he can do that. its not actually up to the coaches to pry it out of him, they just provide the car and roads...he has to drive.

Theres a certain irony to all this. If the many of us thought he had nothing then hed both be gone and forgotten already. Hes on the list. it will be interesting.

I damn sure neeld isnt interested the slightest in Talk, only the Walk. JG had better get going

[nutbean 8,837]

Look, I agree with your points. I just think it would be a shame if a talented 21 year old player was shipped out after an unlucky first year under a new coach (unless he wasn't buying in).

Many more senior players struggled with injury and form this year, but for some reason all the attention is on this kid.

I'm not saying he's 100% gonna make it, but i think he has enough talent to gamble on one more year if the attitude is right.

and I share this view too.

[binman 38,164]

JG has had an extremely unlucky and injury interrupted year, and I would hope Neeld would recognize that that alone is not fair to judge him on. .....

IMO Jordan has shown enough to prove he wouldn't be a "waste of time and resources" should he be willing to follow orders and do the work.

I believe Neeld and Mission can make him a player.

Look Stuie i agree to an extent. I think it would be a shame for him not to fulfill his obvious potential at the dees. I guess where where we differ is i am assuming Neeld has worked really hard this year with all the players, including Gysberts. The time and resources have been put in this year and a year is long enough to reach conclusions. Why is another year necessary?

The injury is a furphy to an extent. Yes it would have impacted on his fitness etc but you don't think how he went about his rehabilitation would have been considered by the club in their assessment of his work ethic? Compare his scenario to Bartram. Barty barely played all year due to injury but his work ethic has never been questioned and i would be shocked if he is cut (maybe made a rookie?).

Instructive also is a comparison with Blease who seemed to have switched on mid season and responded to the development provided by the club. Neeld was effusive in his praise for this and i suspect this was not just about pumping up his tyres.

I hope Gysberts has a road to Damascus moment and convinces Neeld he is up for it. Then follows through with the commitment

Edited October 23, 2012 by binman

[stuie 7,374]

100% agree that as a professional athlete he needs to tick all the boxes preparation and fitness wise - on that we both agree

The young guys need to be taught what it takes and learn about the game from the people we employ to do so- on that we both agree

If they're unwilling they get moved on.-thats the big one on which we both agree but our definitions maybe different - players that work their tail off and do what their coaches say, in the main, will have some semblance of success-be it turning into a star or an honest plodder that plays a roll for the team.

Attitude,willingness to be fittest and the desire to be the best the player can be are something that comes from within each player and if any of these attributes are missing it is the players failing not the coach.

Totally agree mate. You sound like a coach yourself?! haha All things you mentioned combined with good teaching and coaching can make a gun player.

[stuie 7,374]

Stuie, if hes been marked "keep -for now" then great . I actually believe and trust this mob ( aka as the MFC -FD ) have an idea about what they are doing. I do also think they are refining it as they go. This would be perfectly normal mo for any reasonably intelligent outfit.

JG does have 'something' . He has to bring it. Only he can do that. its not actually up to the coaches to pry it out of him, they just provide the car and roads...he has to drive.

Theres a certain irony to all this. If the many of us thought he had nothing then hed both be gone and forgotten already. Hes on the list. it will be interesting.

I damn sure neeld isnt interested the slightest in Talk, only the Walk. JG had better get going

Good post mate. I disagree slightly about the coaches role as I think they should really push players, especially the talented ones, and if met with too much negative resistance or unwillingness then it's goodbye to that player, but apart from that I'm with ya.