Though I like SteFan, I would prefer Jamar. I think Jamar brings more intangibles to the team, plus he is still a good ruckman. He didn't have a great season last season, but I think with Spencer and Gawn in the wings, Martin is the one who should go.

Stefan relies on his jump to much and doesn't use his body as well as Jamar in the ruck contests. Plus, i'm not sure what the stats are on taps to advantage, but I would hazard a guess that Jamar is better in this area.

I just like the toughness that Jamar brings in the ruck. I don't see that same grunt or toughness in Martin. With Grundy available in the draft, I think the team would be better served continuing with Jamar, and developing Spencer and Gawn further. If Gawn can get his body right we have all seen what he is capable of. These factors make Martin redundant. If we picked up Grundy, he could also play reasonably soon and the last thing I would want is another Ruck preventing him from getting game time.

I still think that moving Martin to Collingwood for a 2nd round pick is a good move, particularly if we pick up another forward to partner with Clark. Secondly, Sellars form has probably made Martin a little redundant as well. He has the versatility to play forward/back or ruck, and has more toughness than Martin.

Martin for Wellingham in a heartbeat

Why hang onto spuds who keep us in 16th place on the ladder

Martin isn't a spud but if he were why on earth do you think Collingwood would trade a pretty decent midfielder for him (apparently a 'spud').

Rejects for quality does not happen!

Stefan is too good ,quick ,mobile and skillfull to trade.

He is on the verge of greatness.

Trading him now will bite us on the arse .

I still think that moving Martin to Collingwood for a 2nd round pick is a good move.

Collingwood's second round pick will be in the 37-43 range.

Computer says no.

Stefan is too good ,quick ,mobile and skillfull to trade.

He is on the verge of greatness.

Trading him now will bite us on the arse .

On the verge of greatness ? You're funny.

Martin is a very athletic gumby. He'd be really handy at Collingwood and I'll back the club to do a trade if they think they can improve our list. That's what it's all about.

I agree that Collingwood's second pick isn't enough and I'd rather a player (no older than 25) that is going to immediately improve our side.

On the verge of greatness ? You're funny.

Martin is a very athletic gumby. He'd be really handy at Collingwood and I'll back the club to do a trade if they think they can improve our list. That's what it's all about.

I agree that Collingwood's second pick isn't enough and I'd rather a player (no older than 25) that is going to immediately improve our side.

Remember 2011-not this year. The same with Jamar.

Spencer is the trade bait IMHO.

Stef has real talent . He is precisely the sort of player Collingwood needs ............. an athletic big man to complement Jolley ................ so the rumour makes sense.

In these circumstances , I'd be asking for a lot more than their second round pick ................ Wellingham would do Too much you say? - then no deal.

I agree that Collingwood's second pick isn't enough and I'd rather a player (no older than 25) that is going to immediately improve our side.

So with Collingwood's salary cap squeeze (assuming Cloke stays), if you had to pick one, give or take some mid-late draft pick shuffling, who would it be: Wellingham, Dawes or someone else?

He's not a spud mate! the things he can do, only a handful of ruckman can!

Get your head out of the sand. He is a fringe player in a team that came last when you dont count the new franchises.

If we hang onto fringe players then we are no hope of moving up the ladder.

Half our list are spuds including Martin. Did you not see the brownlow last night? Only player who scored over 3 votes for MFC was Jones.

Stefan is too good ,quick ,mobile and skillfull to trade.

He is on the verge of greatness.

Trading him now will bite us on the arse .

It's the risk we might need to take I think Biff, Martins value shouldnt be under estimated (ie he shouldn't be seen as part of the firesale that the MFC has to have to turn over their list) so I don't want to see him go without getting something worthwhile in return.

But I must also say that your comments feel like a flashback to the end of 2011, and 2010 etc.... how many players have we had on the verge of greatness? Some thought that might be the case with Newton, Jurrah, Wonna, Davey, Moloney etc.... could it be that these players will not achieve greatness with our club and with our program. Similarly Clark has gotten more out himself in the first part of 2012 than perhaps many thought him capable of doing up at Brisbane.

I look at the situation where Adelaide traded Maric out who has had a great season with Richmond.... but he was not doing much there, they got Jacobs who saw himself behind Kreuzer, Warnock and possibly Hampson.... these moves ultimately invigorated both players careers, and both should/could have been AA this year.

Remember 2011-not this year. The same with Jamar.

I'm going to give you a Certificate for stating the bleeding obvious.

It's in the mail.

So with Collingwood's salary cap squeeze (assuming Cloke stays), if you had to pick one, give or take some mid-late draft pick shuffling, who would it be: Wellingham, Dawes or someone else?

Wellingham.

I'm assuming we get Hogan in the mini-draft, but also Dawes just doesn't do enough. And from what you hear he seems overly analytical, which effects his confidence. But I was really put off when I saw him in the water before the Sydney game. I don't work out as much as I'd like, but I'm not joking when I say I've got a better rig than him. He's upper body was so soft he must have an aversion to weights. Or he's just lazy.

I'd rather keep Martin than have Dawes.

Get your head out of the sand. He is a fringe player in a team that came last when you dont count the new franchises.

If we hang onto fringe players then we are no hope of moving up the ladder.

Half our list are spuds including Martin. Did you not see the brownlow last night? Only player who scored over 3 votes for MFC was Jones.

Mate your kidding yourself, he's not a fringe player at all. When he hasn't had injury concerns over the past two years he's easily been in our best 22. And he has a lot of upside. Ever notice how the elite players like Scott Thompson, Dane Swan and Jobe Watson (just a few examples) are very intelligent? So is Stef, plus he is the most agile ruckman in the comp (excl. nik nat). Trading him will prove to be an error imo. With a clear run at it, he is ready to excel. Collingwood obviously knows this.

Wellingham.

Toovey and Goldsack would also be worth considering IMO.

Toovey and Goldsack would also be worth considering IMO.

I don't really think either is worth a Martin trade.

Mate your kidding yourself, he's not a fringe player at all. When he hasn't had injury concerns over the past two years he's easily been in our best 22. And he has a lot of upside. Ever notice how the elite players like Scott Thompson, Dane Swan and Jobe Watson (just a few examples) are very intelligent? So is Stef, plus he is the most agile ruckman in the comp (excl. nik nat). Trading him will prove to be an error imo. With a clear run at it, he is ready to excel. Collingwood obviously knows this.

Ha! Dane Swan intelligent ! Thanks for the laugh, made my lunch break.

Ha! Dane Swan intelligent ! Thanks for the laugh, made my lunch break.

Give him some credit.... He did come up with the light in the handbag idea. And he's quick to realise if you crunch your packet of chips before opening, you get more chips that way.

I don't really think either is worth a Martin trade.

I imagine Collingwood fans feel the reverse - it's usually the way of things ...

Toovey and Goldsack would also be worth considering IMO.

I wouldn't be against trading in some Hardness.

Ha! Dane Swan intelligent ! Thanks for the laugh, made my lunch break.

Lunch? Wind!

Get your head out of the sand. He is a fringe player in a team that came last when you dont count the new franchises.

If we hang onto fringe players then we are no hope of moving up the ladder.

Half our list are spuds including Martin. Did you not see the brownlow last night? Only player who scored over 3 votes for MFC was Jones.

You obviously didn't watch the footy last year did you? Top 10 in the B&F (8th) Beat Sylvia.

I wouldn't be against trading in some Hardness.

Toovey pace too - see Jetta said he was the only one he was worried could catch him.

You obviously didn't watch the footy last year did you? Top 10 in the B&F (8th) Beat Sylvia.

I was watching last year when we lost by 186, were you?

Maybe we should keep every other player who has come in the top 8 of our best and fairest for 1 year in their career.

Edited September 25, 201212 yr by olisik

Mate your kidding yourself, he's not a fringe player at all. When he hasn't had injury concerns over the past two years he's easily been in our best 22. And he has a lot of upside. Ever notice how the elite players like Scott Thompson, Dane Swan and Jobe Watson (just a few examples) are very intelligent? So is Stef, plus he is the most agile ruckman in the comp (excl. nik nat). Trading him will prove to be an error imo. With a clear run at it, he is ready to excel. Collingwood obviously knows this.

You and I have different definitions of intelligent.

Half our list are spuds including Martin. Did you not see the brownlow last night? Only player who scored over 3 votes for MFC was Jones.

On that premise, neither Hawthorn or the Swans will ever get close to a grand final, because most of their lists didn't get over 3 votes either, and are by your definition, "spuds".

Not to add, Collingwood who've been in or close to Grand Finals for years now, and whose recruiting has been widely praised on this board, are the ones who are into Martin. Obviously, they're just trying to build a team full of spuds.