On 31/08/2012 at 02:40, stuie said:

Errrrr and how did that work out for them again?......

It's just started, Stuie, & they tried to put too much muscle to quickly,

As Hird said, the Weapon is safe as long as he's in charge.

They made huge strides before tiring.

There's is a work in progress. They just went out to hard at the front.

  On 31/08/2012 at 02:47, gsmith12 said:

Since when does the number of posts affect the legitimacy of the point being made ?

Nothing, as such. Unless, however, that poster goes mysteriously quiet after putting the cats amongst the pigeons. Sounds to me like a journo sniffing about for baseless info that he can then write as truth. He'll get plenty of that on Land, at the moment.

  On 31/08/2012 at 02:47, gsmith12 said:

Since when does the number of posts affect the legitimacy of the point being made ?

Extraordinary post.

As I've said a few times already in this thread (if you've read it), it may be true, but I'm not going to immediately believe someone who has no reputation (good or bad) here, let alone a poster who has shown through their previous posts they have an anit-Mission and anti-Neeld agenda.

  On 31/08/2012 at 02:51, dee-luded said:

It's just started, Stuie, & they tried to put too much muscle to quickly,

As Hird said, the Weapon is safe as long as he's in charge.

They made huge strides before tiring.

There's is a work in progress. They just went out to hard at the front.

The weapon just about singlehandedly ruined their season.

How many soft tissue injuries did they have again?!

He may get it right this preseason, but he majorly stuffed up in the last one.

  On 31/08/2012 at 02:49, dee-luded said:

As I said it is relevant because it's the culture of the club that softens everything that comes into it's comfort zone.

Most people who come in fall into the comfortable security trap of the MCC/MFC.

It has been since it's inception, & as I said it stopped with Checker Hughes, (who renamed the club as one tool to help change the pastel colors) And checker taught Smith who eventually got to carry on that torch.

Until has was Got.

Our best footy since was in the late 80's - early 90's,,, after Barassi/Jordan + Barry Richardson, Dick Seddon, Ray Manley, etc rebuilt the side/list into a battle hardened one thru the kids coming in. + Sean & Jimma, Bails, Balls, Yeates, etc, etc. Prodigy's of Jordan & Barass.

That hardened team withered after another 5 Yrs or so.

We still had a good list thru the 90's, BUT, where oh where did that intensity & professional hardness go? We should have blasted the opposition away.

But we IMO were comfortable in Hollywood boulevard.

Beaming you up now, dee-luded. Stop trying to resist! 2012 is calling.

  On 31/08/2012 at 02:43, sue said:

I'd be interested to hear from those who bemoan our 'culture' etc and 45+ years of failure on the subject of the 45 years (or so) of failure of the Bulldogs and St Kilda. What's wrong with their culture?

BTW, did you ever see the Junction Oval facilities? How could anyone be 'professional' there and see themselves in the same league as Cwood, Carlton etc.

There good culture is Non Existence.

They have learnt a culture of failure over the decades, & in there case they never had Checker Hughes to save they're souls, or the clubs soul.

  On 31/08/2012 at 02:50, stuie said:

Just wondering, how many sports scientists to we employ, and how many does this AFL team Storm employ? Oh wait, they're NRL and train completely differently and have NO understanding of the completely different AFL teams train and recover.

Ugghhhh... this thread is getting worse, we have enough witch hunts and lynch mobs here already.

Not really, sports scientists knowledge is all pretty similar. Energy systems, movements and movement analysis is all the same. Coaching, yeah that's different, largely due to the skills. But if you look at most widely respected conditioning staff and sports scientists they have worked in a variety of fields.

Oh, and how does training intensity, in the gym, differ from code to code? I think you've missed the point here.

  On 31/08/2012 at 02:54, dee-luded said:

There good culture is Non Existence.

They have learnt a culture of failure over the decades, & in there case they never had Checker Hughes to save they're souls, or the clubs soul.

Dee-luded = Checker Hughes' lurvve child.

  On 31/08/2012 at 02:47, gsmith12 said:

Since when does the number of posts affect the legitimacy of the point being made ?

Extraordinary post.

Nothing to do with the number of posts unless the number doesn't equate with the posters knowledge & experience.

IE: if the poster is posting under an Alias with few post numbers, to enhance an argument thru the weight of numbers of posters supporting the argument, Or if the poster wants to go in Harder than they would normally.

It happens here a lot.

  On 31/08/2012 at 02:56, Moonshadow said:

Dee-luded = Checker Hughes' lurvve child.

Oh Moon, come off it.. We're talking about the good of the club, not about personal stuff, or coming out on top of a discussion.

This is not about you, or me.

It's about trying to get people to see the reality of why our club in the MCG has failed thru most of it's History except where it imported winning hardness & ruthlessness.

The same attitude seems to parallel the MCG & Victorian Cricket, & the Vic's inability over the same period since the 60's to get many test players up & into the Australian test Teams.

And another parallel is the Australian Tennis over the same period. And old precious elitist attitudes have seemed to have stifled our

Tennis over the same periods.

Tell me these are not out of the same precious attitudes???

  On 31/08/2012 at 02:56, Moonshadow said:

Dee-luded = Checker Hughes' lurvve child.

Well love child hah, Barassi took the Winnings ways of Hughes/Smith,,,, To Carlton,,,, Then to North,,,,, & then came back for 5 hard Years to give a rebirth to the Dees, to see the success follow.

And then someone let it slip away Yet again. the softness grows back in like moss on damp ground.

.................

  On 31/08/2012 at 02:57, dee-luded said:

Nothing to do with the number of posts unless the number doesn't equate with the posters knowledge & experience.

IE: if the poster is posting under an Alias with few post numbers, to enhance an argument thru the weight of numbers of posters supporting the argument, Or if the poster wants to go in Harder than they would normally.

It happens here a lot.

Would love a list of the top 10 aliases and/or posters with multiple posting names. Perhaps we could do a poll?

  On 31/08/2012 at 01:21, hardtack said:

Huh?

The MFC family. The MCC family.

The MCG exudes comfort & over security. This erodes the Fear, Hunger, & Desire to develop the lead over the opposition, & the will to maintain the fire & keep the lead.

It Spoils those who come into the comfort under it's Wings.

Gotta say it DL, you are really stretching a long bow to compare all of those sports. And what does the MCG have to do with the discussion? Do you mean MCC?

I'll tell you what, I'll agree that all MFCs problems are a result of what happened 50 years ago (and cricket and tennis, if you like. How bout lawn bowls as well?) if you'll agree that Neeld and the coaching/fitness guys could not care less for the last 50 years (maybe with exception of last 18 mths or so) and are solely focussed on change now and in the future?

That's what I care about, not Checker Hughes. With no disrespect to Checker.

  On 31/08/2012 at 02:56, BLWNBA said:

Not really, sports scientists knowledge is all pretty similar. Energy systems, movements and movement analysis is all the same. Coaching, yeah that's different, largely due to the skills. But if you look at most widely respected conditioning staff and sports scientists they have worked in a variety of fields.

Oh, and how does training intensity, in the gym, differ from code to code? I think you've missed the point here.

i think you've missed the whole point of my post.

AFL training has changed dramatically in the last few years, there's much more focus on recovery and staggering training loads.

Also, have you noticed the different in size and shape between AFL and NRL players? Don't you think that suggests different types of training, especially seeing one is generally a burst sport and the other more of an endurance sport.

Finally, do you really think ANY NRL club employs as many sports scientists as an AFL club?

  On 31/08/2012 at 03:16, Moonshadow said:

Gotta say it DL, you are really stretching a long bow to compare all of those sports. And what does the MCG have to do with the discussion? Do you mean MCC?

I'll tell you what, I'll agree that all MFCs problems are a result of what happened 50 years ago (and cricket and tennis, if you like. How bout lawn bowls as well?) if you'll agree that Neeld and the coaching/fitness guys could not care less for the last 50 years (maybe with exception of last 18 mths or so) and are solely focussed on change now and in the future?

That's what I care about, not Checker Hughes. With no disrespect to Checker.

No, I'm talking about the attitudes of preciousness of elitism, that was born out of the time.

Harry Hopman never allowed that comfort to infect his hard edged winning attitudes & when it showed itself (arrogance) in his charges he'd quickly wipe it out by giving them the dirty jobs like scrubbing the toilet floors. etc.

To me Norm Smith was the same as best as I can remember him from the TV.

The Army washes all this individualism out of the training soldiers psyche, To turn them into a reliable team.

I wonder if the MCC Northern stand are largely a collective of Comfortable Individuals who infect with comfort & security our young players & wash away the dirt the Grit & the fire in the Belly.

Who in the Northern Stand would you follow thru a burning building, or Follow into a gunfight in a War?

It's like the hardened boxer who has enjoyed his success so much,,, he has his house, has his car, has his family, but has lost the fire in the Belly to go on.

And if he does he will likely get Hurt.

Because the 'Focus', that comes from the 'HUNGER', that comes from the desire to be the best, has been Quenched.

  On 31/08/2012 at 03:30, dee-luded said:

No, I'm talking about the attitudes of preciousness of elitism, that was born out of the time.

Harry Hopman never allowed that comfort to infect his hard edged winning attitudes & when it showed itself (arrogance) in his charges he'd quickly wipe it out by giving them the dirty jobs like scrubbing the toilet floors. etc.

To me Norm Smith was the same as best as I can remember him from the TV.

The Army washes all this individualism out of the training soldiers psyche, To turn them into a reliable team.

I wonder if the MCC Northern stand are largely a collective of Comfortable Individuals who infect with comfort & security our young players & wash away the dirt the Grit & the fire in the Belly.

Who in the Northern Stand would you follow thru a burning building, or Follow into a gunfight in a War?

It's like the hardened boxer who has enjoyed his success so much,,, he has his house, has his car, has his family, but has lost the fire in the Belly to go on.

And if he does he will likely get Hurt.

Because the 'Focus', that comes from the 'HUNGER', that comes from the desire to be the best, has been Quenched.

MEDIC! MEDIC!!!

  On 30/08/2012 at 23:44, satyricon said:

This is completely and totally unsubstantiated, I haven't seen the topic starter come back on and 'justify' some of his/her comments, as another poster said, the topic raiser seems down on everything Melbourne, and it did open the door for some of his/her fellow naysayers on this board to join in.......unless you are there everyday what would 'we' know....they don't pump weights every single day.......and last time I looked Cronk is a Storm player not Demons, so how would he know what sort of daily program each player has.......this is rubbish perpetuated by the usual suspects

The substantiation comes in witnessing the pathetic "efforts" of our players each weekend. They are too unfit and too lazy to do anything about it by preparing their bodies to be able to run out quarters, games and seasons of football of AFL standard football which these days means busting a gut to run all day long not just when you think you might get the footy.

  On 31/08/2012 at 03:30, dee-luded said:

No, I'm talking about the attitudes of preciousness of elitism, that was born out of the time.

Harry Hopman never allowed that comfort to infect his hard edged winning attitudes & when it showed itself (arrogance) in his charges he'd quickly wipe it out by giving them the dirty jobs like scrubbing the toilet floors. etc.

To me Norm Smith was the same as best as I can remember him from the TV.

The Army washes all this individualism out of the training soldiers psyche, To turn them into a reliable team.

I wonder if the MCC Northern stand are largely a collective of Comfortable Individuals who infect with comfort & security our young players & wash away the dirt the Grit & the fire in the Belly.

Who in the Northern Stand would you follow thru a burning building, or Follow into a gunfight in a War?

It's like the hardened boxer who has enjoyed his success so much,,, he has his house, has his car, has his family, but has lost the fire in the Belly to go on.

And if he does he will likely get Hurt.

Because the 'Focus', that comes from the 'HUNGER', that comes from the desire to be the best, has been Quenched.

Perhaps we should send the entire list off to Afghanistan for a summer training camp. Will that harden them up enough for you. Or perhaps if we put the worst slackers in front of a firing squad - that should toughen up the rest of the lazy good for nothings!

edit - bad typing

  On 31/08/2012 at 02:43, sue said:

I'd be interested to hear from those who bemoan our 'culture' etc and 45+ years of failure on the subject of the 45 years (or so) of failure of the Bulldogs and St Kilda. What's wrong with their culture?

BTW, did you ever see the Junction Oval facilities? How could anyone be 'professional' there and see themselves in the same league as Cwood, Carlton etc.

We are no longer at Junction what has that got to do with the here and now? 0.

PS the Saints and the Dogs have been finals contenders over the last 6 seasons...

  On 30/08/2012 at 12:53, stuie said:

You guys do realize this topic was started by someone who has been a consistent bagger of Mission, despite the fact he's only been with us 1 preseason.

Amongst his other posts are ones blaming Neeld for all our woes this year, calling Sellar a total spud who can't mark anything and should be delisted, and post after post trying to start up a lynch mob for Schwabb.

Where's Range Rover and his agenda accusations when you need him?!...... (Probably busy starting a poll)

Thanks for the synopsis of previous 29 posts you sad [censored]. Happy for you to dismiss a legitimate third party observation regarding attitudual and cultural issues that have contributed to poor performance and development of talent due to having posted only 29 times!

It's people like you that make these fan sites such a laborious read. Those like you that only leave their lounge room and venture out into society once a week to go to the footy get all there opions from the Internet and print media without actually meeting or knowing anyone with true insight or club knowledge.

As for previous posts:

Neeld - still feel he lacks emotional intelligence and has pulled wrong levers at the club.

Misson - believe he should be accountable for players decrease in leg speed this year ie trengove

Schwab - still feel he's a poor leader of the club, goes into hiding when times get really tough and poor with members and coteries. Unlike others ive actually had the balls to discuss this with him.

Sellar - yep, still think he's a spud.

  On 31/08/2012 at 22:01, Canplay said:

Thanks for the synopsis of previous 29 posts you sad [censored]. Happy for you to dismiss a legitimate third party observation regarding attitudual and cultural issues that have contributed to poor performance and development of talent due to having posted only 29 times!

It's people like you that make these fan sites such a laborious read. Those like you that only leave their lounge room and venture out into society once a week to go to the footy get all there opions from the Internet and print media without actually meeting or knowing anyone with true insight or club knowledge.

As for previous posts:

Neeld - still feel he lacks emotional intelligence and has pulled wrong levers at the club.

Misson - believe he should be accountable for players decrease in leg speed this year ie trengove

Schwab - still feel he's a poor leader of the club, goes into hiding when times get really tough and poor with members and coteries. Unlike others ive actually had the balls to discuss this with him.

Sellar - yep, still think he's a spud.

"Can", I'm interested to know what Cooper was talking about. Is he referring to this years training in particular? can you shed anymore light on his observations?

  On 31/08/2012 at 22:01, Canplay said:

Thanks for the synopsis of previous 29 posts you sad [censored]. Happy for you to dismiss a legitimate third party observation regarding attitudual and cultural issues that have contributed to poor performance and development of talent due to having posted only 29 times!

It's people like you that make these fan sites such a laborious read. Those like you that only leave their lounge room and venture out into society once a week to go to the footy get all there opions from the Internet and print media without actually meeting or knowing anyone with true insight or club knowledge.

As for previous posts:

Neeld - still feel he lacks emotional intelligence and has pulled wrong levers at the club.

Misson - believe he should be accountable for players decrease in leg speed this year ie trengove

Schwab - still feel he's a poor leader of the club, goes into hiding when times get really tough and poor with members and coteries. Unlike others ive actually had the balls to discuss this with him.

Sellar - yep, still think he's a spud.

There anything you do like?

Could be some truth in this story actually. But I doubt Neeld will be ok with this kind of caper. You often hear the stories of how Collingwood and Melbourne were training near each other and the difference was like adults and kids.

  On 31/08/2012 at 22:01, Canplay said:

Thanks for the synopsis of previous 29 posts you sad [censored]. Happy for you to dismiss a legitimate third party observation regarding attitudual and cultural issues that have contributed to poor performance and development of talent due to having posted only 29 times!

It's people like you that make these fan sites such a laborious read. Those like you that only leave their lounge room and venture out into society once a week to go to the footy get all there opions from the Internet and print media without actually meeting or knowing anyone with true insight or club knowledge.

As for previous posts:

Neeld - still feel he lacks emotional intelligence and has pulled wrong levers at the club.

Misson - believe he should be accountable for players decrease in leg speed this year ie trengove

Schwab - still feel he's a poor leader of the club, goes into hiding when times get really tough and poor with members and coteries. Unlike others ive actually had the balls to discuss this with him.

Sellar - yep, still think he's a spud.

Re your description of Neeld. Looking at him, particularily in the weekly segment with Robbo you could be right. I guess the question for me is,as the head coach, could that be a commanding or an undermining attribute? We dont expect a Lyon or a Malthouse to be "loved" but to create tight standards. In a losing season everything looks black but, from what you know, are the players not "with" him?