Another aspect is that players who will be the core of the next generation of senior players like Garland, Frawley, Trengove, Grimes etc have had ordinary seasons relative to expectations.

As for sellar I don't get the animosity towards this bloke. He is a role player and has actually done his job well. We lost Warnock and had no-one to play on the 'gorillas'. Who do you think is going to do that?? Rivers, Garland, Frawley? Its laughable. Have a look at the history of players like Cloke against us. Sellar has been OK.

Seller IMO has been good. When given a specific defensive role he has done very well.

Initially had the same feeling about Neeld however he is a 3 year proposition and should be given the chance over 3 not 2. Sure he's a big worry with Hot Air statements, poor eye contact but he's learning. Neeld will be judged midway 2014. If we're pushing for 8th at that time he'll be given another 3 years.

I don't think I am as generous as you thaipantsman

I will want to see a large improvement by the end of July2013

I am not expecting miracles from 2013 but

If we are still producing the tripe of this year then my faith will have been reduced to zero.

Edited August 20, 201212 yr by old dee

Identifying who to keep and who to cut at end of 2012

Doesn't this happen every year to every team regardless of outcome?

Yep it does. But this year there is a clear change in direction that is resulting in several "sacred cows" being put on the block, and a sense that this is our big chance to boost the list's experience (via FA), and unearth a geniune star via the draft.

Edited August 20, 201212 yr by PaulRB

As for sellar I don't get the animosity towards this bloke. He is a role player and has actually done his job well. We lost Warnock and had no-one to play on the 'gorillas'. Who do you think is going to do that?? Rivers, Garland, Frawley? Its laughable. Have a look at the history of players like Cloke against us. Sellar has been OK.

We got rid of Warnock because he was surplus to needs with Rivers, Chippa and Garland with TMac and Davis in the wings. We werent playing Warnock because he was not good enough for AFL. We punted on Sellar. He has not worked out IMO and is not a keeper for mine. I can see why Adelaid cut him.

Initially had the same feeling about Neeld however he is a 3 year proposition and should be given the chance over 3 not 2. Sure he's a big worry with Hot Air statements, poor eye contact but he's learning. Neeld will be judged midway 2014. If we're pushing for 8th at that time he'll be given another 3 years.

Coaches are only a 3 year proposition if they are performing. I have no issue with the statement or eye contact. I have issue with performance. If we are still as bad in 12 months, he and others are in trouble. If he survives until mid 2014 and we are seriously pushing for the 8 then he prima facie deserves an extension........and a medal!

The improvement I have seen in 2012 is the emergence of 2-way footy. Blokes who were used to all out attack without accountability have not surprisingly struggled.

This willl take time. Our forward line will continue to struggle without the cattle down there and it's made worse by a midfiled that has not often won the clearances, also resulting in additional pressure on our backs. Our deffense IMO are the foundation of being able to turn this around. They'd be superstars with a better mid & forward set-up. It will take some shrewd drafting and trading for the 'J' curbe to appear in 2013.

The big concern we have is our ball winners don't win enough football, we will only have two players averaging over 20 touches per game, Jones and Grimes, no player averaging over 25 touches per game

I think as a team I have not seen much of an improvement but as individuals I have seen great amount of improvement.

Jones: Has stepped up to become one of our most important players, his leadership has taken a massive step up.

Howe: Can take a massive grab we all know that but can take a strong mark that isn't a specky that most of our players would easily drop.

Blease: Finally a player in our side that can simply run from one side of the ground to the other with out getting caught. Is finally believing in himself that he can and will become a great footballer for our side.

Mcdonald: Considering Frawley from what we know he is capable of has had an ordinary year, this kid has really taken control of the backline and has really been able to beat players that have been in the game for a long period of time and have the bigger body over him.

Strauss: Great to see him back, fantastic foot skills, with a full pre season under his belt this kid will become a very important player for us.

Grimes: seems to be a new man, finally stringing games together, doesn't look like the captaincy has got to him and I love how pressure on the field doesn't seem to get to him he takes his time to make sure his pass is effective.

Watts: Decent year, his marking is becoming his strong point, when he gets his body bigger he will have no problem with using it and making the ball his.

Magner: pretty much came to the club for free, has worked his ass off and adds a lot of grunt to the team which we lacked.

Clark: Great leader for our club and gives us a target in the forward line. His marking and accuracy for goal is amazing.

Nicho: great pace from this kid and just runs his heart out every game, once he gets his kicking right he will turn into a fantastic player for this club.

Bomber:

“When I was at Geelong, we were never even worried about playing against Essendon.

“You just knew if you could keep the game in a contest and not let them have the open space that you’d probably beat them.

“Now we have actually changed how we’re going to play football and it doesn’t happen in one year or two years, let’s be honest.”

http://www.sportsnew...s-fitness-boss/

A table in The AGE this morning shows Melbourne is worse in every major statistical category this year compared with 2011.

We have gone backwards in a big way.

Contested/uncontested possessions

Inside 50s

Clearances

Kicks/handballs/disposals

scoring

scores against

You name it we have gone backwards.

I worry for this club. Next year the expansion clubs will be better because they clearly have some talent. Can't see where our vast improvement is going to come from.

A table in The AGE this morning shows Melbourne is worse in every major statistical category this year compared with 2011.

We have gone backwards in a big way.

Contested/uncontested possessions

Inside 50s

Clearances

Kicks/handballs/disposals

scoring

scores against

You name it we have gone backwards.

I worry for this club. Next year the expansion clubs will be better because they clearly have some talent. Can't see where our vast improvement is going to come from.

Just remember that there is a wide gulf between us and the Plastic teams-as shown on the scoreboard.

The plastics also ended Rattens career and Primus'.

We will improve next year due to experience/fitness/trades.

The dogs are sliding ,the Saints will slide, Freo ,Carlton ,Port also.

The only teams we should be comparing ourselves to next year are Essendon ,Richmond , North and Brisbane.

If we can start clawing wins against them the momentum will build and the ladder will look vastly different for 2013.

Im not worried about the club if its only these stats thats worrying some.

Those of you that play golf might get this. There may be other parallels but ill use golf here.

Its possible to play golf without a lesson. Very few will get beyond the novice following this path. The odd few are naturals. Occasionally someone's a prodigy. Its rare.

You invariably need lessons and as you progress the nature of those lessons becomes more and more specific..

Anyone;'s whos walked a golf course can tell you theres hundreds of diferent swings out there. ....and very FEW of them any real good !! lol But there are a lot of 'workable' swings which we hacks either yearn to better or compensate for. Most of us compensate.

In doiing this we acknowledge we effectively limit our potential because we have a self imposed/accepted ceilinig. We arent doign it quite right but the ball does invariably leave the Tee and sometimes remains on the fairway and we make plodding progress around the course.

We return to the clubhouse with a score. Its ok, nothing fancy or record threatening but weve survived another round. We did Ok and thats about it, thats all its ever going to be UNLESS....

UNLESS you relearn how to hit the ball properly and how to set up your game to best advantage. if you decide on this path 9 times out of 10 the first thing a decent golf professional will start to do is 'deconstruct" your swing. Inveitably its full of errors. You go back to basics. Its hard. Youve done it wrong for so long its like its prt of you, its what you do..but its wrong.

You have to learn how to swing a club again. Those first couplel of thousand balls you smack in practice will go everywhere, even places you thought it impossible to hit a golf ball, places you couldnt hit for a bet !!. But they fly and the fly indeterminably for ages.....UNTIL

UNTIL you click again. Until the new swing becomes the familiar way, until it becomes part of you , just lik the old bad way used to be. Now , however you have real potential for growth as you can hit the ball further, ( more often than not ) it starts to actually go where you want it to, not just directed it to. The positioning becomes more advantageous. . Strangely enough you end up hitting it less and less each game. You do come to a wal leventually , the limit of your abiulity but when you look back to where you came from you hardly recognise yourself. Strangely your playing partners have th esame difficulty !!! lol

But all this takes work and understanding and at least for social golf a little bit of ability. The lesson here was you nearly always go backwards,( sidewards, all over the place really ) until you start to go forwardfs again. When you do start going forwards though the improvement builds on itself because al lthe fundamentals are now essentially correct.

This Is the Melbourne Footbal Club. We hacked wins here and there for years with no real consistency to it nor the ability to go beyond a certain level for quite simply we were doing a whole lot wrong.

Neeld and his FD are re-teaching the players the game. it will take time. There will be "going backwards" . Weve seen this already.

As the lessons are learnt and practiced and the new skills honed w will start to move forward and in a real, meaningful and perpetual manner.

We can not succeed to the ultimat prize without the tools and understanding to do so.

Im not worried, in fact im quite excited.

Go Dees

Just remember that there is a wide gulf between us and the Plastic teams-as shown on the scoreboard.

The plastics also ended Rattens career and Primus'.

We will improve next year due to experience/fitness/trades.

The dogs are sliding ,the Saints will slide, Freo ,Carlton ,Port also.

The only teams we should be comparing ourselves to next year are Essendon ,Richmond , North and Brisbane.

If we can start clawing wins against them the momentum will build and the ladder will look vastly different for 2013.

From 2008 we have beaten TWO melbourne teams only - Ess and Rich. That is a [censored] disgrace.

If GC and GWS weren't here this year we would be clear last. I am not sure where your optimism stems from. I am looking for signs of improvement, consistency or excellence and aside from Jones, Clark and Howe there has been very little.

Most of our senior players in the past 5 years have gone backwards - I am talking Green, Moloney, Davey, Bruce types. Each year after their B&F wins they have personally tanked in their form. Not sure what has happened to Jamar, Frawley, Garland or trengove either. Sylvia has NEVER put in a consistent season.

McKenzie and Grimes are triers but not damaging. Along with Bartram, Joel Mac and Nicho. Then we have the Bates, Dunns and Mortons who will never make it.

We have a fairly large contingent of players like Strauss that have been injury interrupted and who haven't really had a chance to cement a place in the team or show their stuff consistently

We have an extraordinary ability as a club to have players reach a certain level and drop off dramatically. Either we can't develop players or we simply don't demand excellence. Possibly its both.

I just can't see the next level coming through. And as a supporter I am really tired of our embarrassing efforts.

I just can't see the next level coming through. And as a supporter I am really tired of our embarrassing efforts.

With all due respect that you can not see it ( or wil not ) is about you, not the team and whats currently happening to it

A train thats been derailed first has to be put back on the tracks, the tracks fixed and then you move on.

What would be embarassing is if we werent attempting to right our wrongs, that we simply carried on regardless and directionless.

i have found it difficult to find any positives this year

I can only find three

- the continuing improvement of Howe

- the continuing improvement of Jones

- Clark justifying his selection

I am Pinning my hopes on the fact that we have had a terrible run with injuries in the second half of the season

and it is has been difficult to see some of our better players in action.

I hope like hell that 2013 will allow us the have less injuries and our better players on the field more often.

Pretty much summed up the year. We are of similar vintage & I don't remember being more disappointed. Absolute shocker, starting at Round 1. I was never a fan of Bailey' and acknowledge that Neeld has inherited the problems from that era, but I truly struggle to see many positives this year. We have been patient, but fair dinkum, it's time for some progress.

In all reality anyone claiming to be the patient type must surely allow through next season before declaring a disaster.

belzebub59 as a long time reader, casual golfer, and avid MFC supporter, I just had to pipe up and say your analogy before was just about the greatest thing I've read on D'land for a long long time and everyone should take the time to read it, respect the many truths in it and try and take a little heart from it because I would completely agree and see this as where the club sits at the moment as well.

Very well said mate.

Bubba Watson, never had a Lesson in his life, Long John Daly, everyone on our list except Martin who is a lost cause, would have been playing since under 9's, just another excuse, 8 wins under Faily, 3 under needle, that,s the tally, all down hill.

Bubba Watson, never had a Lesson in his life, Long John Daly, everyone on our list except Martin who is a lost cause, would have been playing since under 9's, just another excuse, 8 wins under Faily, 3 under needle, that,s the tally, all down hill.

Some dont need lessons, not for the golf, just for what goes with it.

our improvement as a team has definetly improved... reasons why we have failed to stay close in games is our forward line and midfield. After clark went down we really don't have many goal kickers who have stood up... green was up and down and apart from that rivers is no forward. It seems we are able to manage similar inside 50's to opposition but since we have no one to kick goals we really struggle to hit the score board at all. Hopefully development of a few talls like fitzy, cook, martin, williams even and hopefully recruiting to improve these two areas will have a significant impact on our play next year

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Blazers

Forget onfield...we have been shocking.

2012 history will remember Jim Stynes.

Jim Stynes is the greatest person melbourne has ever had.