On 09/03/2014 at 11:53, Al said:

Toumpas turned 20 just over 8 weeks ago, his career must nearly be over. Viney is 19, Trengove 22, Salem 18, Tyson 20. They are KIDS, they're not men yet. In those five we have the makings of a quality midfield with both inside and out side players, but they need time. Our club is coming from a long way behind the 8ball. If Roos chooses not to stay longer than two years we can only hope the likes of George Stone does.

  On 09/03/2014 at 12:04, Al said:

Forgot Michie at 22.

Also Aiden Riley (22) - If we get these players on the park together for 3 years + they'll know what each is capable of and 'be in the right spot' - like Hawthorn, Geelong - I can't wait to see them grow togehter into a competitive Midfield

  On 09/03/2014 at 11:28, Crompton said:

Rome was not built in a day

burnt in one though

  On 09/03/2014 at 22:46, #11-TonyAnderson said:

Also Aiden Riley (22) - If we get these players on the park together for 3 years + they'll know what each is capable of and 'be in the right spot' - like Hawthorn, Geelong - I can't wait to see them grow togehter into a competitive Midfield

I agree.

He's a bit out of sight out of mind, but his strong body, decent skills and pitbull style is right up Roos' alley. When he's fit and firing he'll be a staple in Roos' team.

like it or not...we have about half a dozen serious under-performers on this team given their pedigrees and im giving allowances for where they are in relation to their careers.

Look at the picks pre Roos to with Roos. The difference is monumentally staggering in terms of the basic necessities needed in a decent footballer.

I know this will create howls of protests and sniggers etc etc from those that think there is just so much of a skills net egg amongst many of our players...and 'one ' day it will all come to fruition. Well in the immortal words of Colonel Potter..."Horse Hockey "

How about we focus on the guys over about 24 who are underperforming and let the young guys actually develop for a change...

funny though...not all players under 24 underperform......

  On 09/03/2014 at 23:03, stuie said:

How about we focus on the guys over about 24 who are underperforming and let the young guys actually develop for a change...

If they're over 24 and not performing they're probably not good enough.

Who are you referring to ?

  On 09/03/2014 at 23:05, beelzebub said:

funny though...not all players under 24 underperform......

Funny, not all MFC supporters understand the idea of development... Who would have thought?

  On 09/03/2014 at 23:08, stuie said:

Funny, not all MFC supporters understand the idea of development... Who would have thought?

And some do...and even when you apply the notion of development as some variable in the OVERALL equation many players still come up short....who'd have thought !!

  On 09/03/2014 at 23:14, beelzebub said:

And some do...and even when you apply the notion of development as some variable in the OVERALL equation many players still come up short....who'd have thought !!

You have a far too hasty and simplistic view of Toumpas, and you're clearly not alone.

  On 09/03/2014 at 22:46, #11-TonyAnderson said:

Also Aiden Riley (22) - If we get these players on the park together for 3 years + they'll know what each is capable of and 'be in the right spot' - like Hawthorn, Geelong - I can't wait to see them grow togehter into a competitive Midfield

Riley is another one, I posted that at 11 last night. Never seen him play but from what I've read when he's fit Jordie won't be getting a game which is fine by me. As a I mentioned in a differant thread Watts might benefit from some boxing being introduced into his training on a regular basis.

Toumpas was bog in the intra club recently,and is still a kid.

He was pretty handy against richmond too.

Not all kids have the body of wines to crash in and under all the time.

I still have high hopes for Jimmy, and those who have given up on him already,are simply fickle.

Its the start of his second year for gods sake.

  On 09/03/2014 at 23:20, Al said:

Riley is another one, I posted that at 11 last night. Never seen him play but from what I've read when he's fit Jordie won't be getting a game which is fine by me. As a I mentioned in a differant thread Watts might benefit from some boxing being introduced into his training on a regular basis.

Maybe make judgements and/or comparisons when you have seen him play.

  On 09/03/2014 at 23:49, rpfc said:

Maybe make judgements and/or comparisons when you have seen him play.

Fair call, i got excited when I read that when he tackles, they stay tackled. Not then raised his arms to offload a handball. But I've seen enough of Jordie.

One thing I'd like to do with Toumpas is try and teach him how to run without looking like a girl. Stop waddling Toumpas. Run like a man with intent.

  On 10/03/2014 at 00:05, the master said:

One thing I'd like to do with Toumpas is try and teach him how to run without looking like a girl. Stop waddling Toumpas. Run like a man with intent.

Again, hip surgery. Far out.

Much discussion on this topic I would like to add a response to some

From why you little

"you make a valid point Sue but when one plays like he is blinded and shite scared by oncoming headlights regularly whilst the other continues to rip it up in the engine room does kind of remind you of the chasm of difference that seems to exist."

The chasm of difference is the exceptionally poor recruiting both of players and coaching staff which has plunged our club close to the abyss! For far too long we have been saddled with incompetence of poor choice recruiting and coaching staff!

From Demon Dan,

Hmm, why wouldnt you take a ready made mid, who already knew and grew up with an important established Melbourne family and again, was clearly the pick of the crop? How long do we have to be the f*cking dumb club of the competition?

Pick away.. go hard.. infect.. hit bone!

Yep HIT BONE! Only through collective consciousnous can we ever hope that if it hurts enough then so be it. Lets start building from bone like reconstructive knee surgery! Feel the pain before the inevitable watershed of good solid structure and footy nous.

From Stui

I could not be sicker of people who think every single player should be a pack busting tough as nails ball winner. If we had 18 blokes who were "see ball, get ball" who the hell would they kick it to?

Ridiculous comment.

Agree in part so, which of our mids would get a game at another club??? Its all about quality midfield clearances the difference between a quality mid and a mid is the ability to win clearances and contested ball.you don’t think another quality mid a la Ollie wines wouldn’t help our cause?

From Je Roos Salem

If Toumpas is a soft outside player who we need for versatility, then he isn't a good enough soft outside player, or at least yet. He doesn't look like the devastating type, he moves around a bit awkwardly and doesn't really dictate play and win enough of the ball. You can't simply get by with skills, you need awareness, pace, hardness- all things Toump is lacking in to make an impact at AFL level

Yep agree on all levels, and perhaps depending on whether Toumpas plays ,I would rather develop Watts, Blease, and possibly Salem for these roles.

From Sambo 06

Toumpas = Mitchell, Hodge, Bartel -all speedy blokes LOL! Ollie is great, long live Ollie in PA. LOL!Toump is going to be a star. Soft is he? Refer Geelong.

I suppose Sambo is refering to the game last year where Jimmy played well rather than the recent game which I have already spoken about. To be seen as more than a flash in the pan we need to see more of that type of form, that is not to say he can’t, but the early signs haven’t been good. The difference between ability and volition to actually doing in some players is a very hard thing to do! I suspect in Jimmy Toumpas situation this is more the case.

HE IS HOWEVER, A MELBOURNE PLAYER AND FOR REASONS ALREADY STATED I HOPE, REALLY HOPE HE CAN DO WHAT OTHERS ON THIS FORUM BELIEVE HIM CAPABLE OF DOING! WE REALLY CANNOT AFFORD TO HAVE ANYONE ELSE BEING AT THIS CLUB BEING LABELED UNFULFILLED POTENTIAL, MORE CRITICALLY NOW!

End of rant 2

  On 09/03/2014 at 23:41, DeeZee said:

Toumpas was bog in the intra club recently,and is still a kid.

Yes, he is still a Kid, but like Watts, you'll find Toumpas will always shine in the friendlies.

It's when the intensity goes up 5 notches he'll need to deliver. Right now I don't think he can.

He has plenty of time though. George Stone has taken him under his wing.

  On 10/03/2014 at 00:05, the master said:

One thing I'd like to do with Toumpas is try and teach him how to run without looking like a girl. Stop waddling Toumpas. Run like a man with intent.

Very constructive 'master'.

  On 10/03/2014 at 00:09, Hannibal said:

Yes, he is still a Kid, but like Watts, you'll find Toumpas will always shine in the friendlies.

It's when the intensity goes up 5 notches he'll need to deliver. Right now I don't think he can.

He has plenty of time though. George Stone has taken him under his wing.

I have seen Jimmy Toumpas absolultey rip SANFL games and finals and grand finals apart, this kid is a Jet

  On 10/03/2014 at 00:12, D26 said:

I have seen Jimmy Toumpas absolultey rip SANFL games and finals and grand finals apart, this kid is a Jet

As I have.

He's no "jet" at AFL level.

Perhaps you don't appreciate the step up.

  On 10/03/2014 at 00:18, Hannibal said:

As I have.

He's no "jet" at AFL level.

Perhaps you don't appreciate the step up.

I appreciate the step up, i think it's you that's not, it's huge and the body size and how hard they hit is huge, it takes time for most players to get used to it, sometimes players can go from round 1 (Viney & Wines ) others take time, most reckon it takes 3-5 seasons before players really feel they can impact games, Toumpas i am very confident will be impacting games in a serious way if not by the second half of this year but early next year, he needs and deserves half a chance, at a stronger side he would have been developing in the 2's most of last year

  On 10/03/2014 at 00:22, D26 said:

I appreciate the step up, i think it's you that's not, it's huge and the body size and how hard they hit is huge, it takes time for most players to get used to it, sometimes players can go from round 1 (Viney & Wines ) others take time, most reckon it takes 3-5 seasons before players really feel they can impact games, Toumpas i am very confident will be impacting games in a serious way if not by the second half of this year but early next year, he needs and deserves half a chance, at a stronger side he would have been developing in the 2's most of last year

I think you are just agreeing with 'Hannibal' as I do, he has not made the transition yet. I'm not saying he won't (it is no guarantee that he will either) but at the moment he needs time.

He is a fair way off the pace at the moment.

  On 10/03/2014 at 00:33, rjay said:

I think you are just agreeing with 'Hannibal' as I do, he has not made the transition yet. I'm not saying he won't (it is no guarantee that he will either) but at the moment he needs time.

He is a fair way off the pace at the moment.

I agree, i reckon alot of it is confidence, in his SANFL days he certainly didn't shy away from putting his head over the ball, some rated him a better inside player than outside, just need to work out how to transition that to AFL level

  On 10/03/2014 at 00:33, rjay said:

I think you are just agreeing with 'Hannibal' as I do

Yes, he's seemingly agreeing with me, but doesn't even know it.