Same topic, different poll question.

Be interesting to know what the consensus of 'Landers is here (if there is one).

Another flawed poll...

What about giving options about doing deals, or even the fanciful 'bluffing' strategy that some think is in vogue at the moment?

I will take him at 3 but I want to do deals to get him at 25.

How about a 'Yes, if no other option' option?

I just want Toumpas, Im worried we wont get him now with GWS finishing last and likely to take Whitfield. I think GC will opt for Toumpas with there 2nd pick.

Toumpas, Viney and Vlastuin and pick 25 and il be a happy man.

Toumpas, Wines, Vlastuin and Viney and ill be an even happier man.

Oh dear.....

I thought you gave up a little easily on the discussion yesterday...

Agree with comments above, Flawed Poll as my feelings aren't supported by any of the options.

how about what do you think his rating should be?

1-3

4-5

6-10

11-15

16-20

>20

Two further poll options added

How about another poll asking if we really really need yet another Viney draft thread?

How about another poll asking if you were sick of Viney threads, should you have opened another one?

How about another poll asking if we really really need yet another Viney draft thread?

What we really need is another poll to ask whether we really need to have another poll to identify which options should be included in the Jack Viney poll.

How many agree with me?

* I have changed the poll to a simple Yes/No.

There are two many reasons why this, reasons why that. Just put yourself in one camp or the other.

* I have changed the poll to a simple Yes/No.

There are two many reasons why this, reasons why that. Just put yourself in one camp or the other.

My camp is conditional though. It is yes if and no if. How am I meant to know if il be happy taking him at 3.

Eg - take him at 3 after securing picks 1 and 2 for trading off moloney and sylvia = Yes I will be happy

or - take him at 3 after trading our pick 4 and 12 for Dawes = No i will not be happy

Another flawed poll...

What about giving options about doing deals, or even the fanciful 'bluffing' strategy that some think is in vogue at the moment?

I will take him at 3 but I want to do deals to get him at 25.

Bloody hell RP, you can be a bitter thing some times.

"Fanciful bluffing" - what's so fanciful about it?

I put making special deals with our opponents way more fanciful, especially if there is no need for it (ie. those clubs lower than us bidding for Viney with Pick 1 or 2). You are in a very small minority if you think Jack is worth pick 1 or 2, so I well and truly rate your belief as more fanciful.

There is/would be an element of doubt in GWS & GC's mind about bidding for Viney - that's without any special deals going on in the background. You're a smart man, so why don't you understand that?

My camp is conditional though. It is yes if and no if. How am I meant to know if il be happy taking him at 3.

Eg - take him at 3 after securing picks 1 and 2 for trading off moloney and sylvia = Yes I will be happy

or - take him at 3 after trading our pick 4 and 12 for Dawes = No i will not be happy

There are a thousand variables like that.

All you need to think is ... in your mind is a he a worthy no.3 draft pick in this draft?

Abstain if it's too hard for you.

[quote name='olisik' timestamp='1344911785' h

I just want Toumpas, Im worried we wont get him now with GWS finishing last and likely to take Whitfield. I think GC will opt for Toumpas with there 2nd pick.

Toumpas, Viney and Vlastuin and pick 25 and il be a happy man.

Toumpas, Wines, Vlastuin and Viney and ill be an even happier man.

Toumpas, Grundy, Kennedy, (Plowman, Colquhoun (SA) or Vlastiun) and Viney. Then Mathew McDonough (SA).

If he is one of the best two players in the draft - yes. Otherwise no.

yes, but will Sh!t me. Worth the pick but jeez its annoying

If he is one of the best two players in the draft - yes. Otherwise no.

lol

We will have Pick 3 and 4.

Viney can be 4th best for us to justify pulling the trigger with our first pick.

Bloody hell RP, you can be a bitter thing some times.

"Fanciful bluffing" - what's so fanciful about it?

I put making special deals with our opponents way more fanciful, especially if there is no need for it (ie. those clubs lower than us bidding for Viney with Pick 1 or 2). You are in a very small minority if you think Jack is worth pick 1 or 2, so I well and truly rate your belief as more fanciful.

There is/would be an element of doubt in GWS & GC's mind about bidding for Viney - that's without any special deals going on in the background. You're a smart man, so why don't you understand that?

Some say that a picture tells a thousand words.

Apparently none of those words is 'Melbourne to take Jack Viney even if price slightly inflated' according to a few on here...

'Committed' would be a word that springs from those pictures.

Nah, but maybe I am wrong - maybe he isn't everything we want - maybe he is more of a Pick 5 than a Pick 4...

Some say that a picture tells a thousand words.

Apparently none of those words is 'Melbourne to take Jack Viney even if price slightly inflated' according to a few on here...

'Committed' would be a word that springs from those pictures.

Nah, but maybe I am wrong - maybe he isn't everything we want - maybe he is more of a Pick 5 than a Pick 4...

What if he's more of a pick 12?

Pictures can also tell other stories.

What if he's more of a pick 12?

Pictures can also tell other stories.

Kid on the right was 189cms...

Sometimes height means Jack.

Some say that a picture tells a thousand words.

Apparently none of those words is 'Melbourne to take Jack Viney even if price slightly inflated' according to a few on here...

'Committed' would be a word that springs from those pictures.

Nah, but maybe I am wrong - maybe he isn't everything we want - maybe he is more of a Pick 5 than a Pick 4...

The contract isn't an official, binding contract. What part of that don't you understand? You can keep looking at the pictures, but perhaps read what Jack actually said in an interview a couple of months ago...

http://www.theage.co...0629-21899.html

''I know there's a bidding system to go through and it could be that I don't end up going to the Dees, but that's life, that's footy.

''[Dad] keeps his lips shut about a few things. I don't think he's telling me too much, but he's just told me that if they don't reckon I'm worth what they have to use, then they won't pick me."

Sounds like young Jack is fully aware of the "agreement" between he and the MFC, which is obviously that we don't have a written agreement that we WILL take him.

In that respect, you are totally wrong.

In regards to him being a potential number 5 pick so we won't use a higher selection on him. IF, and it's a bloody big if, the Club rate him as a top 5 pick, of course we would use Pick 3/4 on him, there's no argument there (except for trying to make special deals). Where the argument raises its head is the fact tha tyou think he is rated Top 5, and a massive majority of punters don't, it's as simple as that. But just because you rate him in that category doesn't mean that anyone who thinks differently are incorrect, or living in fantasy land.

Personally, I don't see enough of the Under 18 competitions to give an educated assessment on where players are. I rely on the media, especially the likes of Kevin Sheehan and Emma Quayle, to give their views. Because of that, Whitfield is the obvious number 1 pick in my opinion. If we had the number 1 selection, I'm pretty sure we'd take Lachie in front of Jack. From all reports Grundy is top 5, although this could change, especially with the fact the element of risk with taking young rucks with high picks is a high risk/high reward tactic. Wines is rated highly, Toumpas must be top 5, Daniher from all reports is ranked higher than Viney. According to some reporters on Saturday night, Garlett is a potential top 5 pick. The thing that is becoming apparent is the fact that the standout 2 or 3 (Whitfield, Toumpas and Grundy) are ahead of the "peleton". Will GWS or GC "risk" missing out on any of those players just to try and shaft us? You are extremely paranoid if you feel that way.

define "happy enough"

happy enough to do a little jig?

happy enough not to top myself?

happy enough not to top Sheedy?

lol

We will have Pick 3 and 4.

Viney can be 4th best for us to justify pulling the trigger with our first pick.

Ok seriously can we stop with this rubbish! It is not THAT hard!

It's based on the picks ahead of us in the draft not ours just as Fat Tony pointed out.

If he is worth Pick 4 then why would GWS and GC pick him. Our picks are irrelevant UNTIL we know whether anyone ahead of us is prepared to take him, and in this case it looks like GWS and GC with picks 1 or 2 are the only ones that can prevent us from securing JV. If they don't warrant him worthy of one of those picks we will get him for a second round pick. If they rate him 4th, they won't compromise their position based on that.

The only exception will be IF you have to throw a blanket over picks 1-4 or 1-5 type of thing, and rarely has that been the case, at least when looking at uncompromised drafts. More often than not the ranking of these players at the pointy end of the draft becomes pretty clear.

The contract isn't an official, bidning contract. What part of that don't you understand? You can keep looking at the pictures, but perhaps read what Jack actually said in an interview a couple of months ago...

http://www.theage.co...0629-21899.html

''I know there's a bidding system to go through and it could be that I don't end up going to the Dees, but that's life, that's footy.

''[Dad] keeps his lips shut about a few things. I don't think he's telling me too much, but he's just told me that if they don't reckon I'm worth what they have to use, then they won't pick me."

Sounds like young Jack is fully aware of the "agreement" between he and the MFC, which is obviously that we don't have a written agreement that we WILL take him.

In that respect, you are totally wrong.

How could a contract with a 16 year old that isn't at the club be binding?

It is, however, a statement of intent, and a pretty public one.

Should I insert my own little aside here or can that argument stand on it's own.

In regards to him being a potential number 5 pick so we won't use a higher selection on him. IF, and it's a bloody big if, the Club rate him as a top 5 pick, of course we would use Pick 3/4 on him, there's no argument there (except for trying to make special deals). Where the argument raises its head is the fact tha tyou think he is rated Top 5, and a massive majority of punters don't, it's as simple as that. But just because you rate him in that category doesn't mean that anyone who thinks differently are incorrect, or living in fantasy land.

Personally, I don't see enough of the Under 18 competitions to give an educated assessment on where players are. I rely on the media, especially the likes of Kevin Sheehan and Emma Quayle, to give their views. Because of that, Whitfield is the obvious number 1 pick in my opinion. If we had the number 1 selection, I'm pretty sure we'd take Lachie in front of Jack. From all reports Grundy is top 5, although this could change, especially with the fact the element of risk with taking young rucks with high picks is a high risk/high reward tactic. Wines is rated highly, Toumpas must be top 5, Daniher from all reports is ranked higher than Viney. According to some reporters on Saturday night, Garlett is a potential top 5 pick. The thing that is becoming apparent is the fact that the standout 2 or 3 (Whitfield, Toumpas and Grundy) are ahead of the "peleton".

"The thing that is becoming apparent" means what exactly? That Viney has slipped back into the pack from the standout that some said earlier? Knightmare on BF is pretty certain about his talents. He is going to be close to the 5th best pick from all accounts that I have read.

Will GWS or GC "risk" missing out on any of those players just to try and shaft us? You are extremely paranoid if you feel that way.

Paranoia?

GWS and GC are being pleaded with to make us pay full price and if they do call Viney's name they won't do it 'to shaft us' they will do it because they either believe he is good enough, or to not give a competitor a massive leg up.

Call me vindictive but I would do the same if Eseendon was we are and I had the chance to keep them from getting a Judd with their Daniher.

I wouldn't hesitate.

We are trying to get a Judd to go with our Viney and I just want to make sure of it.

We done?