He's been coached by Malcolm Fraser and Neil Harvey.

haha, what has he done since then? i mean really guys, this is just the same as Mcclean, he was asked a question and he answered. Although it could hurt MFC in the long run, i for one find it strangely refreshing that people are talking openly

It's not the same as McLean. McLean was on a football program & answered a pointed question about his career in an honest (yet tactless) fashion. Gardner was a dial-a-quote & as an ad-man he would've known it. McLean is a nuffie who didn't think things through, Gardner's approach had far more malice about it.

As for those finding this openess refreshing, I suggest when next posed the question from a significant other "Does my bum look big in this?" - respond with refreshing honesty & see how far that gets you. Unfortunately the real world doesn't operate on openess, honesty, sunshine & farts.

It's not the same as McLean. McLean was on a football program & answered a pointed question about his career in an honest (yet tactless) fashion. Gardner was a dial-a-quote & as an ad-man he would've known it. McLean is a nuffie who didn't think things through, Gardner's approach had far more malice about it.

As for those finding this openess refreshing, I suggest when next posed the question from a significant other "Does my bum look big in this?" - respond with refreshing honesty & see how far that gets you. Unfortunately the real world doesn't operate on openess, honesty, sunshine & farts.

Get down off your high horse, and stop trying to talk about the "real world" your on a football forum. Gardiner probably would've been called by SEN to comment, Mclean would've been asked to comment. They gave different yet similar answers. My point is, Gardiner at least for me, hasn't been seen or heard of since he walked away. It will not be forgotten? who cares? he's an ex president weighing in. I'll tell you what was forgotten, Paul Gardiner.

Oh and when she does ask, i don't have to lie. That's my "real world"

Get down off your high horse, and stop trying to talk about the "real world" your on a football forum. Gardiner probably would've been called by SEN to comment, Mclean would've been asked to comment. They gave different yet similar answers. My point is, Gardiner at least for me, hasn't been seen or heard of since he walked away. It will not be forgotten? who cares? he's an ex president weighing in. I'll tell you what was forgotten, Paul Gardiner.

Oh and when she does ask, i don't have to lie. That's my "real world"

1. No high horse here. The point I was making is that if the entire world were a tactless stream of consciousness would it really be that refreshing?

2. Yes, hence Gardner was a dial-a-quote - thanks for arguing my own point.

3. How can something be be different yet similar. Did 'I am Sam' become a new religion?

Finally, keyboard warrior eh? I'll play along. Say hi to Miranda for me, Orlando!

You can think what you like Paul, it's a free country, but FFS, don't go on public record and drop us in what is a serious accusation you [censored]!

Look carefully at what Paul Johnson said. That is how to answer a question regarding this situation. He answered honestly without embellishment and left drawing of conclusions to people other than himself. Cudo's Paul Johnson.

PJ and Gardner should not have said anything. Each has their own motives for saying what they did.

All this talk is pure muckraking and fodder for the media. It proves nothing and settles even less.

I cant believe the sheer volume of the misguided reactions to this issue. What McLean, Gardner and PJ have said has established nothing.

PJ and Gardner should not have said anything. Each has their own motives for saying what they did.

All this talk is pure muckraking and fodder for the media. It proves nothing and settles even less.

I cant believe the sheer volume of the misguided reactions to this issue. What McLean, Gardner and PJ have said has established nothing.

From who?

The media, Demonlanders, On the Couch bozo's?

McLeans comments have established almost 3 days of discussion so far and has unleashed an AFL investigation once again.

Guess who??? All of the above.

All its unleashed its 3 days of hot air which establishes nothing. The AFL investigation will establish....... nothing. The whole issue of tanking is emotive to all because of the AFL drafting rules encouraged and reward teams to underperform.

The AFL had no choice but to "investigate" the rather stupid and uninformed public comments by that boofhead McLean. It will lead to nothing. The AFL would have to prove motive of the Club not accept spiteful scuttlebutt about alleged club actions. Its almost impossible to prove. Its not in the interests of the AFL to do so and as the whole issue covers up to 10 clubs.

Dont get sucked into all the media hoopla.

Actually on rethought it is not fair enough- I should have got express permission from Paul to post and I didnt and for this I apologise to this forum and Paul.

There has been more correspondence between Paul and myself and he is disappointed that I posted it. (and before anyone asks, his tone was of disappointment- nothing more than that).

All I will say on the last response is our positions are not any closer aligned

Yeah, I thought that taking an 'opt-out approach' (ie, I'll publish this unless you get back to me quick smart) over an 'opt-in' approach might get you into trouble in a lot of quarters...

From who?

The media, Demonlanders, On the Couch bozo's?

McLeans comments have established almost 3 days of discussion so far and has unleashed an AFL investigation once again.

I was absolutely astonished that this could turn into a double page spread in the Hun. I mean, seriously. Don't they have Olympics to watch or something?

Go take photos of crying swimmers or something.

The AFL had no choice but to "investigate" the rather stupid and uninformed public comments by that boofhead McLean. It will lead to nothing. The AFL would have to prove motive of the Club not accept spiteful scuttlebutt about alleged club actions. Its almost impossible to prove. Its not in the interests of the AFL to do so and as the whole issue covers up to 10 clubs.

Dont get sucked into all the media hoopla.

It *should* lead to the AFL determining that there is a problem.... with their draft pick system and how it encourages those out of the finals race to 'not focus on winning as the number one aim'

Saying that nothing should be done isn't quite right to me.... but I agree nothing should be done to any clubs who have been 'perceived' to use such tactics to set themselves up well for the future.

RR if the AFL come out again and say 'nothing to see, move along' once more it is not right, we all know it's there, it hasn't gone anywhere and it will rise again somewhere in the future.

It's not even the lure of a priority pick .... it's the guarantee of pick 1 when you are last. GWS and GC are trying to teach their kids to win, but getting that pick in most years is seen as a massive benefit, not just for the draft, but for trading to other clubs. Having a pick higher than someone else gives you more negotiating power, it's as simple as that.

1. No high horse here. The point I was making is that if the entire world were a tactless stream of consciousness would it really be that refreshing?

2. Yes, hence Gardner was a dial-a-quote - thanks for arguing my own point.

3. How can something be be different yet similar. Did 'I am Sam' become a new religion?

Finally, keyboard warrior eh? I'll play along. Say hi to Miranda for me, Orlando!

1. Well it would be a shite side better than having to see through all the crap that is usually droned out by AD and AFL officials

2. if he's a dial a quote, why are you so outraged? This whole "Paul gardner you dog," stuff is so over the top, nothing is going to happen

3. Coke, pepsi. Similar but different.

Pot, kettle, black.

1. Well it would be a shite side better than having to see through all the crap that is usually droned out by AD and AFL officials

2. if he's a dial a quote, why are you so outraged? This whole "Paul gardner you dog," stuff is so over the top, nothing is going to happen

3. Coke, pepsi. Similar but different.

Pot, kettle, black.

I'll leave pointscoring to one side & agree to disagree with the other stuff. I just think Gardner's comments were unnecessary & tipped a bit of petrol on the media bonfire. I agree with you, he's a nobody & his comments won't affect any investigation. I just question his motives in why he did what he did & the way he said it.

If he'd said there was a lot fishy about that Richmond game - I wouldn't have a problem, but his comments were just so stupid & without any foundation in reality. He's clearly got an axe to grind with the MFC - that's the only reason he would've said what he did.

I am a bit fired up about it because the media & opposition clubs are laughing at us, calling us irrelevant & then this [censored] who is supposed to be one of us is shooting his mouth off to suit his own agenda.

Yeah, I thought that taking an 'opt-out approach' (ie, I'll publish this unless you get back to me quick smart) over an 'opt-in' approach might get you into trouble in a lot of quarters...

To reiterate- no trouble in any quarters at all except that I published without getting express permission. I should have done so.

Guess who??? All of the above.

All its unleashed its 3 days of hot air which establishes nothing. The AFL investigation will establish....... nothing. The whole issue of tanking is emotive to all because of the AFL drafting rules encouraged and reward teams to underperform.

The AFL had no choice but to "investigate" the rather stupid and uninformed public comments by that boofhead McLean. It will lead to nothing. The AFL would have to prove motive of the Club not accept spiteful scuttlebutt about alleged club actions. Its almost impossible to prove. Its not in the interests of the AFL to do so and as the whole issue covers up to 10 clubs.

Dont get sucked into all the media hoopla.

But if it's all media hoopla, then the AFL are the biggest suckers (as in being sucked-in) of all. I mean honestly if it was as meaningless as you're purporting above then why are we here having this conversation? The AFL should have just said that McLeans and others comments will have no influence whatsoever on the decision following Baileys comments...

This has all been investigated before. There has previously been no case to answer. Unless McLean says "Dean Bailey told us not to win" then its case closed. There is no new evidence. Even if McLean says that he still won't be able to prove it.

I would bet London to a brick that even McLean who is no rocket scientist will wilt spectacularly and say " oh it was only a vibe there were no specific instructions"

I am much more relaxed about this now than I was when I first heard it.

Only at Melbourne would ex players and ex administrators come out at the lowest ebb and sink the boots in. Only strengthens our resolve I think. Like most Demonlanders here - weve seen it all and been through it all, there is no backing out now!

If Paul has such a high moralising value set then why did he continually tell the world that Melbourne 'was tracking well' and 'meeting our targets' when he left behind a basket case that required a dying man to fix it...

We were nearly bankruppted under Gardiner while he sat in his office polishing his shoes.

Paul Gardner is clearly a self serving [censored] of the highest order. I look forward to seeing him at the football........next year

Ive seen him there before. I spoke to him and he seemed half competant at the time. Clearly looks can be deceiving.

Ive seen him there before. I spoke to him and he seemed half competant at the time. Clearly looks can be deceiving.

He was asked to step aside half way through his final year.

That I remember he was not keen wanted to serve out the year.

Jim prevailed and I think he still bares the resentment of that time.

His loss he just looks like a bitter person who did a poor job.

Maybe he is trying for a bit of revisionism.

He is the fickle supporter. The whole time he was talking about himself!

And tanking through financial mismanagement.

All aboard the Revisionist's Express. Gardners your driver and Mclean the conductor. Plenty of other passengers around it seems. In order to board this train you need to have a ticket, and the fare is that you want history rewritten to cover up for the individuals lacklustre performances and general mediocrity.