OPPORTUNITY LOST

[beelzebub 23,313]

I think a number of others have nailed the essential here. Its about patience. From many quarters , even if we have none.

Neeld /FD are evaluating. They have some serious decisions to make come seasons end and they are giving those they think warrant it every opportunity to plead their case. I detect Neeld likes a bit of multi-task type ability in his players. He likes that they can fill other roles given team make-ups or match ups.

So given he really hasnt a full pallette to play with he has to shuffle and re-shuffle and cast players into non-comfort zones just to see what they do.

Neeld is t really concerned with wins for the sake of the table at present. Im sure , secretly, he doesnt mind the notion of better draft pick numbers , but he stilll wants to see who has the basic nouse to give thngs a red hot go when given the opportinuties. Some are...some are obviously dog-f'n-dumb it would seem by results to date.

Neeld gets to start the re-stocking of the side properly come seasons end. This is when we will see real change.

[Hardnut 327]

For me the situation is simple. I did not agree with the processes and the appointments of either Bailey or Neeld. As I understand it, the same people were responsible for both and hence the buck stops with them. Given that, I will support the players against criticism of them when it is really designed to deflect responsibility from the truly guilty parties. No list is perfect, but much more could have been done with our list depending on which year you want to start.

[45HG 1,539]

If Clark plays - we win.

[beelzebub 23,313]

memo to MFC...pls consult Hardnut with all future appointments !!

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,115]

For me the situation is simple. I did not agree with the processes and the appointments of either Bailey or Neeld. As I understand it, the same people were responsible for both and hence the buck stops with them. Given that, I will support the players against criticism of them when it is really designed to deflect responsibility from the truly guilty parties. No list is perfect, but much more could have been done with our list depending on which year you want to start.

Hardnut, the process and appointment of Bailey and Neeld has nothing to do with their ability to coach but all to do with lack of due dilligence by those that chose them. The same process can arse you a lemon or lemonade. On this basis I find it has no relevance to the output of the coach as a full process with the same objective may have come to the same outcome.

I struggle with your concern with the lack of diligence and time with choosing the coach yet you call for him to be culled one sixth into his appointment. Is that not the pot calling the kettle black?

I agree no list is perfect and dont disagree that another coach would have got more immediately out of the list but if that process gave no confidence that would give us the best opportunity to win a flag then who cares. I will take 2 years of rubbish to cull a list and fix structures, fitness and culture if I get to see a flag in over 3-4 years of middle of the road perfomances that see us make up the eight at best.

I find your critique of them just as hard to stomach when you then call for the rash decision of the coaches head one sixth of the way through his coaching term. Regardless of whether the appointment process is right, Neeld was chosen and he deserves time to right the ship in the best way he see fit to make us successful.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,115]

If Clark plays - we win.

If Clark plays - we win two of our last three.

[demonoid 317]

I think a number of others have nailed the essential here. Its about patience. From many quarters , even if we have none.

Neeld /FD are evaluating. They have some serious decisions to make come seasons end and they are giving those they think warrant it every opportunity to plead their case. I detect Neeld likes a bit of multi-task type ability in his players. He likes that they can fill other roles given team make-ups or match ups.

So given he really hasnt a full pallette to play with he has to shuffle and re-shuffle and cast players into non-comfort zones just to see what they do.

Neeld is t really concerned with wins for the sake of the table at present. Im sure , secretly, he doesnt mind the notion of better draft pick numbers , but he stilll wants to see who has the basic nouse to give thngs a red hot go when given the opportinuties. Some are...some are obviously dog-f'n-dumb it would seem by results to date.

Neeld gets to start the re-stocking of the side properly come seasons end. This is when we will see real change.

On this I am in full agreeance

[dee-luded 2,959]

Tick tock tick tock... Neeld officially has a dozen more matches to produce improvement otherwise there is no way his contract will get extended.

If by round 10 we have only won 1 or 2 matches then he will be the one to go.

At this rate this will be a distinct possibility... Any new coach suggestions?

Maybe Brent Moloney, because he won't be playing next year.

[dee-luded 2,959]

IMO.........

I think there is a lot of patience and a little bit of foxing going on here. Players are being asked to work on the aspects of their game that are lacking. Trengove, for one, has said that the coaches are wanting him to improve his uncontested possession numbers which would abviously reduce his inside work as he tries to play a role that allows him to achieve his goals. It would be somewhat naive to think he would be in the minority as far as this is concerned.

Having players do this is essentially playing players not so much out of position, but moreso out of their comfort zone (so it's not tanking per se) until where/how they are playing starts to become more natural and productive. Now some of these players have had to show these improvements at Casey (Couch, Blease, Morton, Nicholson, Watts, maybe Gys, maybe Moloney) while others can possibly only do it in the ferocity of an AFL contest (Magner, Trengove, Howe, Rivers).

Once the group have enough players showing the necessary improvements in their weaknesses, they become a better balanced and well rounded unit. This sort of stuff takes time and it can't be done in a pre-season because there isn't enough pressure to ingrain instinctive reactions. So, the coaches need to throw these players in the deep end and keep them from paddling to the shallow end as long as this season continues. Off season will be spent on skills and fitness only this year it will all be more relevant than it was last time. Once the fitness (cream) and the skills (candles) are in place it will be Happy Birthday MFC.

The group will not have MASSIVE changes for 2 reasons.

1) You can't cull a third of a list unless you're trading them all for someone else or replacing them with new players. Where will the coaching group find 15 players?

2) A lot of them are not as bad as they seem atm and will be given the opportunities to keep improving on their weaknesses to earn a spot in the firsts.

Well, really nice informative post. Makes total sense.

[Sir Why You Little 36,985]

The season was shot after round 1. That is the real depression for me.

How can a senior side of AFL draft picks be this bad?

It has to be mental. There is still dirty laundry that needs to be wahed and aired fully.

[dee-luded 2,959]

For me the situation is simple. I did not agree with the processes and the appointments of either Bailey or Neeld. As I understand it, the same people were responsible for both and hence the buck stops with them. Given that, I will support the players against criticism of them when it is really designed to deflect responsibility from the truly guilty parties. No list is perfect, but much more could have been done with our list depending on which year you want to start.

One Home Renovator bought a house in Smith St, to Jazz up & sell for profit.

One Home Buyer bought a house in Smith St, to renovate & move his family into.

Both houses had turned out to be in poor condition, with weak foundations, & hidden faults.

The Renovator got a Jack & hoisted the house up in parts & stacked bricks & wood under to level it. And put tape around electrical wires where they were worn & exposed. the plumbing was blocked & this was given a temp fix.

The renovator quickly plastered over the cracks & painted, sold this house to a young couple & moved on.

The Home Buyer took his time fixing things properly himself, one by one, methodically moving thru the issues in a logical order.

The Home owner spent more time but used much more care.

50 Years later the Home Buyers house has been extended & a further renovation done to it. It stands Tall & Proudly, in Smith street.

The other has been leveled, and is a retirement home these days.

[daisycutter 29,604]

One Home Renovator bought a house in Smith St, to Jazz up & sell for profit.

One Home Buyer bought a house in Smith St, to renovate & move his family into.

Both houses had turned out to be in poor condition, with weak foundations, & hidden faults.

The Renovator got a Jack & hoisted the house up in parts & stacked bricks & wood under to level it. And put tape around electrical wires where they were worn & exposed. the plumbing was blocked & this was given a temp fix.

The renovator quickly plastered over the cracks & painted, sold this house to a young couple & moved on.

The Home Buyer took his time fixing things properly himself, one by one, methodically moving thru the issues in a logical order.

The Home owner spent more time but used much more care.

50 Years later the Home Buyers house has been extended & a further renovation done to it. It stands Tall & Proudly, in Smith street.

The other has been leveled, and is a retirement home these days.

LOL

Sign up Scott Cam as coach....asap

[rjay 24,887]

The season was shot after round 1. That is the real depression for me.

How can a senior side of AFL draft picks be this bad?

It has to be mental. There is still dirty laundry that needs to be wahed and aired fully.

I think it looked shot in the last 2 rounds of the NAB cup, we just couldn't afford loose games by big margins again and it looked like more of the same.

There was a critical comment by Neeld early in the season that he wasn't surprised by a defeat and margin so my take right or wrong was we were looking at a year where the coaches would assess and re build. Not what I particularly wanted to hear but if that is what is happening and this is the means to the end then so be it. Next year will tell the story, can Neeld coach? to early to tell but I hope so. I sure hope they know what they are doing.

The dirty laundry? I used to think this too and I still think it is an issue but maybe not the reason for the results. Surely we have moved on now.

The end of this year can't come soon enough for me now and I love watching football. I'm so interested in what happens at the end of the season with the draft, the list and the admin of the club. It's make or break at least for what happens over the next decade at the club.

[Choko 493]

For me the situation is simple. I did not agree with the processes and the appointments of either Bailey or Neeld. As I understand it, the same people were responsible for both and hence the buck stops with them. Given that, I will support the players against criticism of them when it is really designed to deflect responsibility from the truly guilty parties. No list is perfect, but much more could have been done with our list depending on which year you want to start.

The corollary of that statement is that if we had a good process with a good coach, we would be good, or a lot better. Problem is, look at our list. Aint gonna happen. We have the worst midfield in the league, bar none.

[Hardnut 327]

Hardnut, the process and appointment of Bailey and Neeld has nothing to do with their ability to coach but all to do with lack of due dilligence by those that chose them. The same process can arse you a lemon or lemonade. On this basis I find it has no relevance to the output of the coach as a full process with the same objective may have come to the same outcome.

I struggle with your concern with the lack of diligence and time with choosing the coach yet you call for him to be culled one sixth into his appointment. Is that not the pot calling the kettle black?

I agree no list is perfect and dont disagree that another coach would have got more immediately out of the list but if that process gave no confidence that would give us the best opportunity to win a flag then who cares. I will take 2 years of rubbish to cull a list and fix structures, fitness and culture if I get to see a flag in over 3-4 years of middle of the road perfomances that see us make up the eight at best.

I find your critique of them just as hard to stomach when you then call for the rash decision of the coaches head one sixth of the way through his coaching term. Regardless of whether the appointment process is right, Neeld was chosen and he deserves time to right the ship in the best way he see fit to make us successful.

I understand your position Big Red, but due diligence in appointing the unknown is essential and should involve judgements based on available evidence (and I acknowledge that it is not easy to get evidence especially when looking at an untried coach), but when we have 9-10 months of evidence in front of our own eyes, sometimes tough calls have to be made. I also do not accept that any club has to wait until their new coach has got 'his' players into the club to make it successful. MFC recruited a coach, not a team, and no club has the luxury of waiting some years before it all comes together, though it may sometimes seem that way.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Hardnut would have us believe we've been a top 4 side for the last 6 years, and that Neeld has somehow managed to stuff it all up.

Pity the facts suggest otherwise.

As they say, to all complex problems there is a simple answer ... that is wrong.

Simply blaming everything on Neeld is plainly stupid. And wrong.

[Hardnut 327]

IMO.........

The group will not have MASSIVE changes for 2 reasons.

1) You can't cull a third of a list unless you're trading them all for someone else or replacing them with new players. Where will the coaching group find 15 players?

2) A lot of them are not as bad as they seem atm and will be given the opportunities to keep improving on their weaknesses to earn a spot in the firsts.

Two very significant points!

[Redleg 40,843]

This is my take on our position, we are not good enough in a number of areas, we know them and so do the Footy Department. The list is much poorer than many thought, we are not fit enough, we have a new batch of coaches with new ideas and plans that take time to adjust to, we have a weak midfield, no small forwards, lack of general pace other than a few like Nicho and Blease, poor disposal skill, weak culture and a lack of real hunger to succeed at all costs.

Now what to do to fix that: first we must finish as low as possible to get the best picks and trading/drafting position,

second, we must trade/deal and draft well with the minimum risk of failures,

third, we delist those that are surplus and couldn't be traded,

fourth, we get the players fit,

fifth, we get the players absolutely familiar with the game plan,

sixth, we empower our leadership group to change the culture with full support of the whole club,

seventh, we get the players that are on the 2013 list to buy into the win at all costs culture, which simple means you do what you have to do to win.

It all sounds pretty simple and of course it isn't, but surely that is the starting point.

Last, if the FD agree with my positon on best draft picks being essential, then we needn't question team selection for the rest of the season. If the Dogs were to fall behind us on the ladder we would go back two picks, lose bargaining power to trade and deal with GWS for best Under 17's, probably lose or pay too much for Viney as Dogs would name him, whereas I believe GWS and GC won't, thereby lose another top player and maybe two top players with our later 2 picks than Dogs. In other words I see it as an absolute disaster to finish higher on the ladder. Maybe the FD agree.

Things are working to that scenario with our heavy injury list so we don't need to ta-k. I can't even say the word.

I believe with a good trade or two, a hard pre season, our best players being available, further development in several on our list and a a few good draft selections we can turn it around very quickly.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Redleg

[Hardnut 327]

A quote from an article in this morning's Sunday Age:

'The most compelling feature of Adelaide’s performance was that its players knew what to do, where to go, where teamates were, and where to pass. Teamwork was at its finest.'

We have heard a lot about the Neeld gameplan and how long it will take to learn it. I don't think the quote above is talking about any form of complicated gameplan, but rather just good, commonsense football.

I would have hoped many young footballers would have the basic ability to learn and/or improve the skills mentioned in the quote above very quickly after they were drafted.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Hardnut

[Choko 493]

Ok, you just keep saying the same thing. Enjoy.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,115]

A quote from an article in this morning's Sunday Age:

'The most compelling feature of Adelaide’s performance was that its players knew what to do, where to go, where teamates were, and where to pass. Teamwork was at its finest.'

We have heard a lot about the Neeld gameplan and how long it will take to learn it. I don't think the quote above is talking about any form of complicated gameplan, but rather just good, commonsense football.

I would have hoped many young footballers would have the basic ability to learn and/or improve the skills mentioned in the quote above very quickly after they were drafted.

Is that you salivating over Sanderson again Hardnut? I think it is missing that the Adelaide players were already adept enough at getting the ball and using it as well as had the endurance to get to the right spot in the first place.

I think young footballers have that ability to learn quickly but dont have the strength or the endurance to do it all game. Its the old ones that struggle with it and thats our biggest issue.

Edited July 22, 2012 by big_red_fire_engine

[Range Rover 1,935]

This is my take on our position, we are not good enough in a number of areas, we know them and so do the Footy Department. The list is much poorer than many thought, we are not fit enough, we have a new batch of coaches with new ideas and plans that take time to adjust to, we have a weak midfield, no small forwards, lack of general pace other than a few like Nicho and Blease, poor disposal skill, weak culture and a lack of real hunger to succeed at all costs.

Now what to do to fix that: first we must finish as low as possible to get the best picks and trading/drafting position,

second, we must trade/deal and draft well with the minimum risk of failures,

third, we delist those that are surplus and couldn't be traded,

fourth, we get the players fit,

fifth, we get the players absolutely familiar with the game plan,

sixth, we empower our leadership group to change the culture with full support of the whole club,

seventh, we get the players that are on the 2013 list to buy into the win at all costs culture, which simple means you do what you have to do to win.

It all sounds pretty simple and of course it isn't, but surely that is the starting point.

Last, if the FD agree with my positon on best draft picks being essential, then we needn't question team selection for the rest of the season. If the Dogs were to fall behind us on the ladder we would go back two picks, lose bargaining power to trade and deal with GWS for best Under 17's, probably lose or pay too much for Viney as Dogs would name him, whereas I believe GWS and GC won't, thereby lose another top player and maybe two top players with our later 2 picks than Dogs. In other words I see it as an absolute disaster to finish higher on the ladder. Maybe the FD agree.

Things are working to that scenario with our heavy injury list so we don't need to ta-k. I can't even say the word.

I believe with a good trade or two, a hard pre season, our best players being available, further development in several on our list and a a few good draft selections we can turn it around very quickly.

I believe we can turn it around reasonably quickly, too. Moreover, I believe we will.

Huge player cleanout coming at season's end though.

The lingering effluent of the Bailey era needs to be formally purged.

[old55 23,404]

A quote from an article in this morning's Sunday Age:

'The most compelling feature of Adelaide’s performance was that its players knew what to do, where to go, where teamates were, and where to pass. Teamwork was at its finest.'

Yeah Sanderson is riding high on the coat-tails of Craig's good work over many years.

[beelzebub 23,313]

This is my take on our position, we are not good enough .........................

Now Red, that will be enough of that. Please go sit in the naughty corner until all the common sense dissolves and you can fill up on delusion like many others.

In all seriousness though....you nailed it.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Yeah Sanderson is riding high on the coat-tails of Craig's good work over many years.

A salient point that will not be understood by some, in fact they may assume Sandersons success is all his own and despite the Craig influence