I am suprised by the love of our team on Demonland.

If we ever want to be a decent team( or club), or a respected one, we wouldn't accept injuries and rotations for a 9-0 goal rout to end a game. We would stand up and fight. We don't though, we just find excuses.

I have always supported players Jerry - coaches must take responsibility, but generally your post is spot-on - there is no room for excuses..

Please define fitness Ron, and relate it to our particular form of pre-season training.

I am sure if Sanderson was coaching us we would have won today.

Not sure what to take away from it to be honest.

I was pleased with our first quarter. Losing Jamar was such a blow. Martin leaving the forward line really left us without a target.

I was really hoping the boys could stick it out. It would have been a great hard fought win.

We really have got to stop all these turnovers. It simply kills us.

Imagine how much we would have lost by if we didn't focus on fitness in the preseason.

Depressed more than usual today.

We started well, we were unlucky with injuries, but there's just such a massive sense of resignation being a Dees supporter these days.

I know the effort was there today, so not mad at the boys, they had a crack, just the usual weekly heavy heart.

I am sure if Sanderson was coaching us we would have won today.

I am sure if you had any idea about football, our lack of rotations and the loss of Jamar killed out structure. Think again champ!

Not good enough, didnt want it badly enough, which is what really gets me the most,youd think they would be desperate to win.

Dont know whats worse having a poor start and a good fightback only to lose, or starting really well and withering away to another loss.

Sam Blease is exciting.........when running one way (you can guess which way!)

I am sure if you had any idea about football, our lack of rotations and the loss of Jamar killed out structure. Think again champ!

Deelirious. I think you have missed the tongue planted firmly in my cheek. Feel free to read my previous posts for what I really think.

Not sure what to take away from it to be honest.

...

We really have got to stop all these turnovers. It simply kills us.

I was watching a [censored] team posturing as a good team.

They try very hard in doing so - don't get me wrong - but bad eggs eventually rise to the surface.

add another to the out for the season list guys! Bennel is out. http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/141471/default.aspx

Team is totally unfit, can not run out a game, those that are not unfit are injured.

The high performance team is anything but that.

Misson and Craig were meant to resolve fitness and injury issues, money not well spent thus far.

So do you think that a team can change from being totally underdone under bailey to having elite fitness in one preseason? I'm sure Misson and Craig know what they're doing and next season the team will be much fitter and competitive

Guys... Had Russian stayed on..Bennel as well we would have won.Simple. We couldnt stay fresh or maintain our thrust forward . A brave effort.

Some of you lot..fair dinkum bunch of whingers !!! Its getting better ffs.

Spot on b59. Sometimes i just have to shake my head at some footy fan's (and professional commentators for that matter) refusal to recognise the impact of injuries - either in a match or across a season - to a team's fortunes. It seems to be ingrained into footy culture - old school culture at least - not to blame injuries, but in my opinion it is by far the biggest factor in football, at least when teams are roughly level.

Look at every winner of the flag in the last 30 years - they have one thing in common: a great run with injuires and sufficient depth to cover the inevitable problems. And not just the number of injuries but who they are too. GF winners generally don't lose too many of their key players.

In this match we lost Jamar early and Martin was clearly stuffed. And because of injury Sellar was not there to give him a chop out (and made sure Garland ghad to play up back, robbing us of a forward option). Grimes was injured and off for some time and when he came back on couldn't offer the usual run. Bennel was off and robbed us of rotations.

Add not having Clark - who provided our forward structure and created our shape - and Watts out (who in a short time has become super important down back interms of our set up - just look at how we struggled with both kick ins and back half clearances) added to our difficulties.

Of course a Collingwood say, who has the depth to cover injuries, or Wet Coke for that matter will manage them better than a time light on for talent like the dees. But if Collingwood lose Cloke and WC Cox those clubs premierships hopes are shot - depth or no depth.

To not acknowledge the impact of injuries is,to my mind, just plain silly and reflects a really simplistic, naive view of footy.

There were definitely some good signs today, we worked hard, spread a bit better, moved the ball well. Losing Jamar and Bennell ruined us, especially Jamar which threw our structures out and destroyed Martin.

However, there were still far too many skill errors which hurt us with turnovers. Jack Grimes turned the ball over about 6 times by foot. His kicking is simply deplorable (and before people jump down my throat, at least 3 of those turnovers occurred before he hurt his ankle). His effort, strength, marking and leadership aren't questionable, but his kicking is as bad as any player on our list.

I'm sick of players kicking backwards and sideways seemingly simply because a player is free, rather than because it helps us move forward or set up a play. Tom McDonald gave up two goals because he didn't kick precisely when going backwards/sideways. The last goal of the game also was conceded because Grimes didn't kick with precision when going sideways. It's infuriating.

We also spent too long with players behind the ball which didn't help us score, and Jones was taken out of the game by Crowley which hampered our clearance work.

Pleasing to an extent, but still lots of work to do.

Please define fitness Ron, and relate it to our particular form of pre-season training.

Fitness in this context = AFL standard or better.

However, it seems when Misson took over the reigns at the MFC, we were less than AFL standard.

Notwithstanding that I spoke to John Quinn (Head of Sports Science at GWS) recently at a corporate function and that he confirmed the following view in spades, I'll provide another account for stating this view.

I injured my hip flexor earlier this year. A mate referred me to a leading sports physio in Sydney to treat it (he also does the physio for several rugby clubs in Sydney), but takes fee paying individuals as well (ie, me).

I asked him whether he knew Dave Misson. He said 'of course, everyone in the industry does'. I then asked him whether he's any good.

His response - 'yep, he's one of the best. I don't actually know him very well, but he's got an enormous reputation.'

I then asked, 'how long before he gets the Dees up to elite AFL fitness?'

His response:

'Probably about 3 pre-seasons - and, that said, he won't even try to rebuild the senior players. It's too late for them - he'll just try to tweak them. Whereas for the younger players, he'll invest the time - BUT it will take a lot of time and patience too. There are no miracles in this space - it's all hard work, and I understand they were a fair way off the pace - so, for them, it'll take even longer. First of all, they need to catch up to the other clubs - all of which put enormous energy into this area as well - but, to then surpass them - well, that's not easy because they also have elite regimes and elite athletes, and they're all going like a bull at a gate on this stuff. So it's not easy at all. I'm confident you'll be happy with the results in a FEW years from now though'.

My take out - most lay people don't get this area - it's simply too scientific. They simply want instant results, and, if those results are not there instantly, the supporters get frustrated.

BUT I strongly suspect the physio's analysis above is correct. 100% correct.

This stuff takes time. And the new regime hasn't had the requisite time just yet. To suggest otherwise is plainly stupid.

But then again, the dominant majority at the time also thought Galileo was wrong.

I am sure if Sanderson was coaching us we would have won today.

A strange response Big Red. Maybe several other coaches would have done better?

The last goal of the game also was conceded because Grimes didn't kick with precision when going sideways. It's infuriating.

I suppose it's Grimes' fault that Joel Macdonald can't take a chest mark.

Great effort by the players. Everyone gave 100%.

best effort all year, especially with the injuries.

However, the fact is we are 2 & 13.

Our game plan is one dimensional. We are afraid to use the corridor, therefore it takes twice as much work to kick a goal.

Disappointed that green, petered, Howe, Sylvia and trengove were not rotated thru the full forward line so as to keep them fresh.

I am still unconvinced about neeld even tho it was a fantastic effort by the players.

Really, it's sad that our best performance of the year still resulted in a 5 goal defeat.

IMO, neeld should be replaced at years end.

Great effort by the players. Everyone gave 100%.

best effort all year, especially with the injuries.

However, the fact is we are 2 & 13.

Our game plan is one dimensional. We are afraid to use the corridor, therefore it takes twice as much work to kick a goal.

Disappointed that green, petered, Howe, Sylvia and trengove were not rotated thru the full forward line so as to keep them fresh.

I am still unconvinced about neeld even tho it was a fantastic effort by the players.

Really, it's sad that our best performance of the year still resulted in a 5 goal defeat.

IMO, neeld should be replaced at years end.

?!

This is my take!

We are the poorest performing Victorian club!

We have gone backwards dramatically from last season!

We have not had a successful coach in 50 years!

We have recruited very badly for years!

We cannot seem to recruit superstars...!!!

We always have long injury lists and dont have depth!!

This list is very poor given that previous half decent lists had less coaches, shyte facilties and so on!!!

As a club - we are irrelevant in AFL circles. Our list is simply bad. AND THE CLUB DRAINS IT SUPPORTERS OF ANY ENERGY LEFT TO SUPPORT YEAR IN YEAR OUT. IN A NUTSHELL - ABSOLUTE GUTSFULL OF LOSING!!

yawn

This stuff takes time. And the new regime hasn't had the requisite time just yet. To suggest otherwise is plainly stupid.

But then again, the dominant majority at the time also thought Galileo was wrong.

Logic, professional insight ...... and mentioning Galileo!

Team is totally unfit, can not run out a game, those that are not unfit are injured.

The high performance team is anything but that.

Misson and Craig were meant to resolve fitness and injury issues, money not well spent thus far.

How about before ripping in to them you pay attention to what they're saying?? There are no instant solutions. Our list is sitting at fitness levels equivalent to 60% of the top flight teams. Next season will step it up to 80%, year after will be 100%. If you try and go from zero to hero you end up with soft tissue injuries. For a case study please see Essendon team 2012.

Great effort by the players. Everyone gave 100%.

best effort all year, especially with the injuries.

However, the fact is we are 2 & 13.

Our game plan is one dimensional. We are afraid to use the corridor, therefore it takes twice as much work to kick a goal.

Disappointed that green, petered, Howe, Sylvia and trengove were not rotated thru the full forward line so as to keep them fresh.

I am still unconvinced about neeld even tho it was a fantastic effort by the players.

Really, it's sad that our best performance of the year still resulted in a 5 goal defeat.

IMO, neeld should be replaced at years end.

Dont like your view of getting rid of Neeld. WE'VE GOT THIS!

I suppose it's Grimes' fault that Joel Macdonald can't take a chest mark.

I thought MacDonald had to stretch to grab that mark.

Either way, not the point. He went sideways when he should have driven the ball inside 50. And he still turned it over multiple times. Twice out of bounds on the full in the first quarter.

I suppose it's Grimes' fault that Joel Macdonald can't take a chest mark.

Skill errors happen, that was a bad one but what was even worse was that Grimes had time to make a decision, with the ball at the fifty he chose to kick across the ground instead of into the forward line.

That was just stupid and is much worse than a player dropping a mark.