We dumped a loyal captain after 1 year at the helm because there was a better candidate/s available.

We are the worst performing Victorian club by a mile this year, considering last year we were in finals range.

Does this raise any questions in you mind?

We were the worst vic team last year too. We won all our games against easy beats and had no defensive structure or game plan. We were nowhere near finals contention. So the only real questions it raises in my mind is - do you know what your talking about?

No answery the questiony?

We dumped a loyal captain after 1 year at the helm because there was a better candidate/s available.

Hardnut, doesn't it worry you that this^ guy is the only one in your corner here?

Do I know what I am talking about.

To all you excuse makers that are using every excuse in the book, I will focus on just 1 excuse being used with such authority, FITNESS!

What would you people say to a fella like big Jim, who played games at about 50% fitness, but kept battling and fighting and pushing and bleeding. What would you say to him? Sorry, our blokes are losing because in the last few years we were probably 5% off elite afl fitness. That is the reason we are not winning. That's just bullship.

Do I know what I am talking about?

I know enough to know an excuse when I hear it.

As for you nasher, I am trying to expose the hypocrisy of posters who say we can't replace a coach after one year. We replaced the captain didn't we. Whether it is wrong or right, the precedence has been set.

To all you excuse makers that are using every excuse in the book, I will focus on just 1 excuse being used with such authority, FITNESS!

Fitness?

What fitness is applicable to AFL footballers?

This is the question I am still waiting for Hardnut to answer. It's the same question he asked of Ron Burgundy, and he answered it very well. Hardnut said that RB didn't answer it, but now he refuses to answer the question himself.

His refusal to answer the question has left his credibility as a poster at zero. This is only slightly above, based on your illogical ramblings, where both you and he were before.

Do I know what I am talking about.

To all you excuse makers that are using every excuse in the book, I will focus on just 1 excuse being used with such authority, FITNESS!

What would you people say to a fella like big Jim, who played games at about 50% fitness, but kept battling and fighting and pushing and bleeding. What would you say to him? Sorry, our blokes are losing because in the last few years we were probably 5% off elite afl fitness. That is the reason we are not winning. That's just bullship.

Do I know what I am talking about?

I know enough to know an excuse when I hear it.

You said we were close to playing finals last year. I pull you up on your stupid statement, and you don't even try to defend it.

Ah Utah. Your personal insults suggest you know more than me.

Still with you Tona - got sidetracked by On The Couch - now Open Mike is about to include Norm Smith I think. Will be back.

Fascinating viewing on both shows.

Winning every weekend would be so boring.

We dumped a loyal captain after 1 year at the helm because there was a better candidate/s available.

This is an interesting comment.

It's not often someone has a whinge and yet provides the reasoning for the occurence all in the same sentence.

Do I know what I am talking about.

To all you excuse makers that are using every excuse in the book, I will focus on just 1 excuse being used with such authority, FITNESS!

What would you people say to a fella like big Jim, who played games at about 50% fitness, but kept battling and fighting and pushing and bleeding. What would you say to him? Sorry, our blokes are losing because in the last few years we were probably 5% off elite afl fitness. That is the reason we are not winning. That's just bullship.

Do I know what I am talking about?

I know enough to know an excuse when I hear it.

I would probably say something along the lines of: "You must have been very glad to have been surrounded by a group of extremely fit team mates." - seriously, as much as we all love and remember the guy fondly, I am finding this "Jimmy" defence very tiresome when it comes to arguing points on this board.

The fact of the matter is that without something approaching elite fitness, you will NOT succeed in the modern game of Australian Rules Football... plain and simple. When Jim was playing, the sport was far less professional and there was a lot more latitude when it came to carrying players that were carrying injuries.

So, in answer to your question, I would respond with an emphatic "NO"!!... you do not know what you are talking about.

rpfc, I see Mark Neeld's quote under your posts,

"I will get you fitter, tougher and give you a gameplan' - Mark Neeld.

Well, they don't look any fitter, they are not playing any tougher and the gameplan has produced 2 victories and 13 losses.

How long must I wait to see if he has fulfilled his mission statement?

Well if you are not being rhetorical I can answer...

Fitness - takes ages for the kids, and the senior players can't be helped. The immediate returns are in the 23-27 year olds of which we don't have many at all. When it comes to body development (which is what I am really looking at), Misson will get our player bigger in the arse and thighs while keeping that ability to run. Look at Hawthorn and their players are fit but big and wide and that's where we need to be.

Toughness - this would be an intangible that would be difficult to define. As a young list we have been pushed aside easily at times, but we were against Bailey aswell. The Essendon win was the best, 'toughest' win since 2006 so that is a good sign. Essendon are a good team. We put together 4 quarters of good hard footy and beat them.

Gameplan - I have my view and I have given it ad nauseum I am sure: we played a frontrunning style of footy under Bailey and never got near good teams in 2011 unless they were interstate teams at the G. Neeld has shown a great desire to teach the boys to run both ways so that when we are a good team we can match it with other good teams - frankly I get tired of winning 8 games against crap and then get belted against relevant teams. Anyway, the spread (desire to get uncontested footy that fuels your attack) has diminished astonishingly since 2011 (down from 214 a game to 179, and that is after it was about 150 prior to the Sydney game) and while this has been because of the focus on defensive running and discipline to structures it is the players overcorrecting - not the coach's instruction. Trengove has already mentioned a few times now this very issue and he is battling through it. BTW - I am glad he is battling through it now rather than 5 years from now when our star player is a frontrunner - this stuff is good to learn.

I'm not happy with where we are at and mistakes have been made but we are not a very good team right now so if we can spend these crap years teaching the kids how to play football properly then that is great. I don't see the greatness of having a more offensive minded coach gettting another 3 wins out of this list. It's not worth delaying their education.

Rpfc.. Good post.You see the forrest when many only see trees and some not even those bdfore they smack their heads on the sturdy branches of the truth.

I think I saw the making of a star today - No 38 Michael Walters for Freo.

Pacy, magnificent left footer....reminded me of a young Aaron Davey.

except the Aaron Davey never gave Ricky Bobby a shot jab in the guts when passing each other coming off the ground. Did anyone else see that ?

Rpfc, Your reference to toughness - it seems to read to me as being 'hard at the footy'. If that is the case. I would like to add in another tangable point of;

Mental toughness - this is a hard one to teach, some of the players will have it to burn, while some unfortunatly will just not possess the mental toughness required of them in the modern game. Its difficult to assess where a players head space is at times especially younger players who are yet to learn to control the thought process. It will develop as their game times and numbers progress in addittion to individual fitness levels as they learn to push themselves harder and further physically and mentally. One of the problems I see right now is that the continual losses, injuries and constant microscoping of the club will start to take its toll on the players mentally.

How do they get over this? Good question. I would hazard a thought that the 'leaders' have started to define themselves within the playing group, some players in the group may only now be identified as having the 'mental toughness' and leadership to get the group through the rest of the season. Its a hard task to have younger men as part of the leadership group, as they lack life skills/knowledge of what it takes to show the others the 'I am not losing anymore to anyone! mindset'. Its how they respond in the next couple of years that will be the true test of where they are at.

Team is totally unfit, can not run out a game, those that are not unfit are injured.

The high performance team is anything but that.

Misson and Craig were meant to resolve fitness and injury issues, money not well spent thus far.

Were the Swans or the Saints ever unfit under Misson?

I'll answer for you.

No. They were conditioned to play tough hard footy from the first bounce till the final siren, week in week out, season after season

Face it. We were miles off the elite fitness levels of Saints, Pies, Cats and bridging that gap is a work in progress. Misson even revealed in an article on melbournefc.com.au that he was making the players do more running at training in season than he did at the Saints because the Saints were maintaining an elite fitness level whereas Melbourne players were still building to an elite fitness level.

Misson will turn out to be one of the more important recruits in the history of the MFC. Everything in his record suggests that after another pre season our players will be as fit as the best teams.

When are you going to answer my (and your) question?

Stop being a weasel. Your lack of character and intelligence has been shown to all.

Absolutely. Stand up to the plate Hardnut and be accountable. For one who wants to debate you sure like to hide.

Obviously I don't need to answer my own questions - if I did, then why would I ask them?

I'll give both of you a hint and something to think about - I hope you are watching tonight's game between Essendon and Geelong (or will watch a replay) - if you watch carefully you might just see the answer to my point, but it will take a football brain!

Let's see how we go in Darwin. I truly hope most of you 'patience people' are correct and 2012 is just a pre-season for 2013. However, I can assure you that the brief that neeld was given by the power brokers was to win more games than 2011.

Behind closed doors, neeld is under enormous pressure, as he should be. It is not only his position on the line, but the pairings of schwab, mclardy and the board. All of whom have overseen this 5 year rebuild.

Practise your skills until you believe in them!

Let's see how we go in Darwin. I truly hope most of you 'patience people' are correct and 2012 is just a pre-season for 2013. However, I can assure you that the brief that neeld was given by the power brokers was to win more games than 2011.

Behind closed doors, neeld is under enormous pressure, as he should be. It is not only his position on the line, but the pairings of schwab, mclardy and the board. All of whom have overseen this 5 year rebuild.

Now you've confirmed what shite you talk, before a ball was kicked we were told the new game plan would take time to adapt. It's clear the amount of training and the focus on gameplan over results has been done with approval and a view to the future.

The talk you disregard from Neeld about having to peel everything back would not have been allowed had he not been given the stamp of approval from the board. Or do you think the board rang Neeld up and said look we are going to give you the position but that stuff you said at the interview about us only having four quality players and needing to change the way we play, well we want you to forget that.

I'm not blindly defending Neeld just find it astounding how some want him out because their expectations for 2011 are unrealistic

If you reckon we've only got 4 quality players, you've lost before you have even started.

Grimes, jamar, garland, Howe, trengove, jones, mckenzie, rivers, frawley, blease, Jurrah, watts, tapscott, moloney just to name a few.

Sounds like excuses to me, even before he started.

Remember moloney dominated last year.

If you reckon we've only got 4 quality players, you've lost before you have even started.

Grimes, jamar, garland, Howe, trengove, jones, mckenzie, rivers, frawley, blease, Jurrah, watts, tapscott, moloney just to name a few.

Sounds like excuses to me, even before he started.

Remember moloney dominated last year.

Just to confirm 4 "top quality" players who picked themselves were all that were left on the board of our 22.

I'll just give Neeld more time and the opportunity to build his own list