It's not just about the MFC, it's about this kid's life and career. Am not a big fan of what you said RR, but also I am certain that there must be something that would prevent you delaying him by a year and then being able to take him the following year as a F/S. (Perhaps you can only nominate once for F/S drafting)

Lets face it there is no way Viney is going to be hidden away anywhere, also not a fan of comments that have been thrown around for Viney to underplay for the remainder of the year (effectively tank) to drop his value. I say let the kid play out the year, let him play his guts out to prove that he is worth whatever pick he gets picked up at. If thats a second rounder then great, if it's a first rounder and we take him at pick 3, then he is worthy of that pick in the eyes of our club and other clubs out there. (I don't buy into all the gamesmanship crap!)

We can't ask this of Jack, like any young player he'd be itching to be playing out on the G. If we don't want to take him with the pick we have to then so be it, but he wants to play AFL not VFL.

We're acting like we'll call the bluff of GWS, I'm leaning to us not and we'll just say that we rated him in the top 3/4. There is still hope that GWS will not nominate him, what we want is there to be 2-3 absolutely top of the line no arguments best players in the draft (that don't include Jack) and give them every reason not to pick him.

no, Jonesbag this is my point. Lets get greedy! why not. just rolling over without a fight and taking him at 3 because he's 'worth it' will mean we get one less top 5 pick. lets manipulate the system as much as possible and get as much as we can. thats the attitude that builds tough no bull**** clubs. im tired of just being nice

But thats it... after a while it's not tough, and ruthless, it starts to reek of desperation.... and is a similar reek to when people refer to tanking.

If Viney is worthy of a top 3 pick, we are going to have to pay the price. If he isn't, then the club has said then we won't grab him, which is a statement to tell the other clubs we won't be bullied into spending over for him, we then get him for a 2nd round pick. The rules have changed for F/S picks, time for some people to deal with it.

I am almost sick of the draft already!!

I think you are all overestimating the influence an 18yo Viney would have on the senior side next season.

I actually think you maybe UNDERESTIMATING the effect of a Viney in our midfield. Hes not the panacea to all things crook Ill acknowledge that . Hes no instant Judd etc. But he has Cohunas by all accounts. He just might be a more talented and footy smart version of Grinter ( no offence Rod..lol ) .. by this I mean... See ball get ball, destroy all in way... See wall of opposition...take wall apart. Now hes sure to come unstuck at times. He has some growing to do, but his MINDSET is already there in concrete. He WILLS himslef to succeed.

Gee...now think of that as beiing infectious amongst an at times lethargic, ho hum group.. !!! Ive played on teams, footy and baskball where you have a live wire or two ( we just amicably refered to them as f%*#ing nutcases !! ) and there go get it , keep on , keep at it attitude just permeated through the team. You lifted. You couldnt in all decency let them carry the load ( not that I didnt try anyways ) but you really felt the vibe.

Beamer sort of does it, but without the added layer of real vision and timing. Jonesy is close in a fashion, a littel more polished than I had beleived, but he cant do it by himslef. Get a merry band of nutcase musketeers marauding the midfiled and giving drive to an engine that seems in perpetual stall and just watch the Demons blossom.

when WE are the team that goes bang nbang out of the middle goal !! watch the change in game dynamics.

Now Viney wont do this all by himself. A likely lad such as Boak or similar to show the way is needed.

Who else notes how often more than a handful of Demons just seem to be standing there,.Are they waiting for a bus ?? ffs. Theres no sense of urgency often and thats a team thing. You need players who take on games. They act as catalysts.

I absolutely beleive that Viney will be one such catalyst. Not the team cure in himself... but a moving prototype of what is required.

Get him..play him.... in 2013....simple as

Would not portray a good image for the club.

What was it all about?? Integrity or something....?

Is being anchored to the bottom four of the ladder for another five years a "good image" for the club?

We need all hands on deck in 2013 in order to improve on 2012.

Draft him and play him round 1 in the middle at the G.

I do see some of the posters points of view that holding viney off wouldnt work. I think it might but i dont disagree entirely with some of the other opinions.

What i strongly disagree with is this idea of just taking whats due to us. its so soft and lacks fighting spirit and desire to do whatever it takes to be the very best.

I understand thesentimentbut you suppose there is an option. Theres none. You cant defer Viney and expect him to be available. It wont work like that. My understanding is its this year now or never for F/S.. next time he is just another draftee...Older, stronger , more experienced and even more attractive to other teams.

Where you get HARD is in your resolve to get the best picks, the best trades , the best value for the club. Tilting at windmills is for the romantic.

You cant defer Viney and expect him to be available. It wont work like that. My understanding is its this year now or never for F/S.. next time he is just another draftee...

Does anyone actually know this definitively? If so, this thread is null and void but if we can get him F/S in 2013 ... well ... as the President would say ... 'we will use all means at our disposal"!

This is pretty silly, Viney will play AFL next year, you cant ask a kid to wait.

We'll take him second round, or GWS or GC will take him in the first.

Is being anchored to the bottom four of the ladder for another five years a "good image" for the club?

But the lengths that you are proposing feels like the 'Carlton' way of doing things..... whatever it takes isn't always a good thing.

To quote a great sportsman "You can not be serious!"

Jack Viney has worked his ass off for years to earn the right to play top level AFL footy, and you're suggesting he just put it on ice in the Magoos for a year cause it would help us draft someone else... Bizarre.

This is pretty silly, Viney will play AFL next year, you cant ask a kid to wait.

We'll take him second round, or GWS or GC will take him in the first.

...or we will take him in the first.

I can't stand this ambivalence. We need genuine midfield ball winners and Viney is an inside and outside threat (that means he can win his own footy and pushes hard to spread and find the footy) and we are being confused by the F/S situation,

If he wasn't a chance to be taken by us in the second round - if his name was Jack Schoenveld - we would all be saying we should pick up this player being called a 'brick wall with eyes.'

He is exactly the type of ready to go player, with a great attitude and will to succeed that this shadow of an AFL team needs.

This is pretty silly, Viney will play AFL next year, you cant ask a kid to wait.

We'll take him second round, or GWS or GC will take him in the first.

Not quite ...We'll take him second round, or we'll take him in the first round if he warrants the pick. Only way GWS or GC will take him will be as a result of them trying to force us to pay more than he is worth..... but if they do that, they know that move up and effectively pick 2 and 3 in the draft. Viney will get drafted next year, and the MFC is in a very strong position.

To quote a great sportsman "You can not be serious!"

Jack Viney has worked his ass off for years to earn the right to play top level AFL footy, and you're suggesting he just put it on ice in the Magoos for a year cause it would help us draft someone else... Bizarre.

Exactly and the whole point of us making it public that we'll take Jack was to allow him to officially join the club and be fast-tracked so he'll be more advanced than he otherwise would have been and hopefully ready to impact in 2013.

The real question that we all seem to be skirting around is whether he is worth pick 3 and I'm guessing most of those commenting one way or the other have seen him at most play a couple of games on TV over the past two years and seen some youtube highlights. I'm keen to hear from those who've seen him more than a handful of times and in the flesh.

Edited July 3, 201213 yr by Goodvibes

We draft the kid and play him when he is ready.

Round 1 2013.

From all reports and the snippets i've seen of young Viney, pls just get him playing with our 1st 18 ASAP, he's 18 and would b roaring to play, think back to when we were all 18? I couldn't wait for the weekends to play with the big boys, albeit my standard of footy. Maybe its cause I don't read the media very often but has there really been that much hype about Jack V other than the o'l idiot from GWS threatening to pick him,( and DL hype)in reality were SHOULD he b picked in the draft? Or were does he rank?

Exactly and the whole point of us making it public that we'll take Jack was to allow him to officially join the club and be fast-tracked so he'll be more advanced than he otherwise would have been and hopefully ready to impact in 2013.

The real question that we all seem to be skirting around is whether he is worth pick 3 and I'm guessing most of those commenting one way or the other have seen him at most play a couple of games on TV over the past two years and seen some youtube highlights. I'm keen to hear from those who've seen him more than a handful of times and in the flesh.

I agree.

The way Melb and Essendon have handled the F/S with Viney and Daniher is very similar in many ways to having a pick in the 17yr old Minidraft. We get one one of the best 17 yr olds in the country to the club a year earlier to improve their development and he is ours to take. The only issue is what price will we pay. What did Adelaide pay for Crouch? or GC for O'Meara?

Is anyone else concerned about his height (175cms?)? Can he kick goals from 55m out on the run? Just how quick is he? And how's his peripheral vision?

I'm not having a crack at Jack V. because I honestly can't say I've sen that much of him, but these are the attributes you'd want of a No.3 pick in this draft.

I say we try every dirty trick in the book, to buy gws/gc off, and get him second round.

Telling him to sit out another year would be a slap in the face, and I suspect he would punch MFC square on the jaw if it was suggested to him.

I'm one of those who get excited at draft time. (cos our crapness gives us good picks)

Picks 3/4, 12, Viney and a couple of randoms, would almost be worth taking the day off for...............

God I wish we were good again.

Is anyone else concerned about his height (175cms?)? Can he kick goals from 55m out on the run? Just how quick is he? And how's his peripheral vision?

I'm not having a crack at Jack V. because I honestly can't say I've sen that much of him, but these are the attributes you'd want of a No.3 pick in this draft.

We want hard inside, ball-getting mids

I wonder where we can find one?

I have a feeling we will be forced into pick 3. I'm hoping I am wrong, and we can bluff our way out of it

Is anyone else concerned about his height (175cms?)? Can he kick goals from 55m out on the run? Just how quick is he? And how's his peripheral vision?

I'm not having a crack at Jack V. because I honestly can't say I've sen that much of him, but these are the attributes you'd want of a No.3 pick in this draft.

I am not too fussed about his height.... there seems to be a few more players playing these days that were either overlooked earlier in their careers due to height or were rookied that seem to still play the game very well. Harvey from Nth, Jarryd Blair, Jamie Elliott is another is one.... I think Ian Callinan from Adelaide would have played football a lot sooner except that recruiters in the last decade thought he was too short. His career in Tas, Vic and SA though over the journey is a better story than J-Pod and players like that!

(Also means that there is a smaller tackling target between hips and shoulders )

From what I have heard / read he isn't overly quick, but not slow either. I haven't heard any negative comments about peripheral vision or problems with reading the game. Not a lot of comments talk about whether he is a goal kicking midfielder though....

Edited July 3, 201213 yr by Oucher

Is anyone else concerned about his height (175cms?)? Can he kick goals from 55m out on the run? Just how quick is he? And how's his peripheral vision?

I'm not having a crack at Jack V. because I honestly can't say I've sen that much of him, but these are the attributes you'd want of a No.3 pick in this draft.

178cm

To be honest Viney is sounding alot like a shorter version of Trengove

His lack of height spooks me .

Its one thing to be a hard inside mid at 178cm against kids.

Quite another to be the same in the AFL.

And then the prospect at having to take him at 3.

The idea to make him wait another year tho' is just dumb.

He'd be long gone and I wouldn't blame him.

I wish for the day where we are looking forward to september, not november