I have got to say our old leaders must go

What old leaders? There are none left, that's half the problem!

The sad thing is Israel Folau has just played in a winning team.

Over to you Etta James...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1uunRdQ61M&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Watched the GC/GWS game. It was so awful...

I don't know how we would go against them but they were both putrid.

Terrible game.

Because in hindsight we've pulled the wrong rein several times over the past few years. In my opinion these include:

- Not getting our financial house in order.

- Not sacking Daniher after 2003 & then not backing him up with FD spending or not committing to genuine renewal.

- Appointing Bailey as coach/not supporting him with FD spending

- Selecting Jack Watts with pick 1

- Selecting Tom Scully with pick 1 (this thankfully can still be rectified with compo picks)

- Letting go & the handling of letting go senior players in particular James McDonald.

- Not bringing in outside leadership (we probably could've had a crack at Luke Ball)

These & many other decisions are the reasons we are where we are. I fully expect to be flamed for this & that's fine. I supported a lot of these decisions at the time & can admit I am wrong.

Yes and lets blame the selection panel for the loss of a premiership in 1901. For god sake everybody get a grip....7 games in....

MFC really know how to recruit! Two number one draft picks and it has been anything short of disastrous. Scully is lured away by the dollar and Watts is unable get a run in a team which is running stone motherless last. Has there ever been a worse performing number one draft pick? I think not!

And the thing that kills me the most? That [censored] Scully got a win before our boys did.

This is just so humiliating.

The winning "Reserves" team (shows my age) was a recurrent phenomenon of the Dark Years (™ MFC 1965 - ?). The ressies regularly appeared in Sept when the senior team was dross. A sign of too many NQRs?

Yes and lets blame the selection panel for the loss of a premiership in 1901. For god sake everybody get a grip....7 games in....

Where did I blame anybody in my post?

I understand why certain decisions were taken at those times but it doesn't change the fact that they have had adverse outcomes for the club. Or is everything peachy?

What is wrong with our club and players.

Not 6 months ago, we were better than North, bombers, port, adelaide, Richmond, Gold Coast, comprehensively beat sydney. We looked like the next big thing.

How have we gone so so so so so far backwards. What is wrong with our f&%*#ing club

And to make it worse, we'll end up coming second last, because we'll beat GWS and fluke a couple of victories late in the season, and we'll have to use the prized pick 2 on a father son

Mark neeld must clean out this club and im sure he will but we must start to play all the kids. The way we are playing GWS will beat us and we have seen what a team like the lions who are crap can do to us it makes me sick

Can't work out whether we don't belong there but deserve to. Or we belong there but don't deserve to. Or perhaps both? I'm confused

MFC really know how to recruit! Two number one draft picks and it has been anything short of disastrous. Scully is lured away by the dollar and Watts is unable get a run in a team which is running stone motherless last. Has there ever been a worse performing number one draft pick? I think not!

Watching watts prance and tiptoe around in his usual soft fashion in the Vfl today was making me ill. What a disaster.

It's like the club has no soul anymore. We won't beat GWS given the heart and enthusiasm they showed today.

Why are we where we are; easy, recruiting.

We have selected the wrong types and it has nothing to do with a game plan and a change from one style to another; as Leigh Matthews said the other week, good footballers will adapt to any game plan. I still think that or recruiting department just looked at the phantom drafts on bigfooty to see who was the most popular and went ahead and selected them.

We salvate over some of the late picks that have turned out to be good ordinary players but ignore the fact our top 20 picks have turned out to be very ordinary players.

I supported a lot of these decisions at the time

Surely that's the point. You don't make decisions retrospectively, you can only go on information available at the time. If things turn out differently to how you'd hoped, it doesn't mean the decision (at the time) was wrong.

For mine, it's just ridiculous to blame Neeld. We needed to sort this lot out after 186, and it was always going to be painful and messy. The team were half-decent against St Kilda, even at times Geelong, and in front at quarter time last night. Going into this game, the Hawthorn boards were generally complimentary about us, and warning of taking us too lightly. Last night was a big step back, sure, but progress is never linear.

The Jeremy Howe interview was interesting, and acknowledges that the players basically caved in to the Hawks' pressure and stopped playing in the second and 4th quarters. Once again, it comes so much down to the senior players and the lack of on-field leadership - if just Sylvia had stood up in the second quarter with a couple of game-changing moments, things could have been different - but he's not that kind of player, and we don't have that kind of player.

It's going to take time.

Watching watts prance and tiptoe around in his usual soft fashion in the Vfl today was making me ill. What a disaster.

It's like the club has no soul anymore. We won't beat GWS given the heart and enthusiasm they showed today.

Watts doesn't tackle he hugs, but not too tightly and usually after the player has disposed of the ball.

We have viney in charge of this draft which is a super draft. I love viney but we need the best scouts going around as our clubs future is in the hands of the next up coming draft. I would think this should be the boards number 1 priority right now.

Because in hindsight we've pulled the wrong rein several times over the past few years. In my opinion these include:

- Not getting our financial house in order.

- Not sacking Daniher after 2003 & then not backing him up with FD spending or not committing to genuine renewal.

- Appointing Bailey as coach/not supporting him with FD spending

- Selecting Jack Watts with pick 1

- Selecting Tom Scully with pick 1 (this thankfully can still be rectified with compo picks)

- Letting go & the handling of letting go senior players in particular James McDonald.

- Not bringing in outside leadership (we probably could've had a crack at Luke Ball)

These & many other decisions are the reasons we are where we are. I fully expect to be flamed for this & that's fine. I supported a lot of these decisions at the time & can admit I am wrong.

Keep it realistic or check your history. Ball wanted NOTHING to do with us or anyone who was not Collingwood.

It really sh@#ts me when people distort the facts to try to stand up an argument.

Not 6 months ago, we were better than North, bombers, port, adelaide, Richmond, Gold Coast, comprehensively beat sydney.

Woah ... with the exception of GC and our one-off against Essendon during their slump, all those sides beat us last year. And we "comprehensively beat" Sydney nearly 2 years ago. We were rubbish and all over the place for much of last season, and except for an unconvincing win against GC at home, we lost most of the last 7 games last year, and a few of them really really badly.

This idea that we were OK last year and we've gone backwards just doesn't stand up. We were rubbish and still are - it's just a different kind of rubbish.

This idea that we were OK last year and we've gone backwards just doesn't stand up. We were rubbish and still are - it's just a different kind of rubbish.

Same rubbish, same rubbish bin. Just smells worse now because it hasn't been emptied for a long time.

Surely that's the point. You don't make decisions retrospectively, you can only go on information available at the time. If things turn out differently to how you'd hoped, it doesn't mean the decision (at the time) was wrong.

Absolutely. It's clear that decisions cannot be made retrospectively or in hindsight - which is why I haven't named names or blamed those who have made them. However, those that make such decisions are put in such positions for their foresight and live & die in those positions by the success of how those decisions play out. I feel that if the outcome of a certain decision turns bad then it was the wrong decision.

My initial post was referring to the OP's query of 'why we are where we are' & I gave my 2c.

I am well aware of that. However, didn't Ball enter the National Draft giving every team the opportunity to recruit him? We didn't. We were scared off by his management/Collingwood. We would've been well within our rights to draft him.

Under Bailey we played the football equivalent of run and gun!

Dishonest, forward running, unaccountable bruise free football.

It was never more evident to me than the North Melbourne loss at Etihad last season.................and then 186 was the exclamation point!

Players who have been allowed to free wheel, and pick and choose their effort for 4 years under Bailey are now demanded to work just as hard both ways................and surprise, surprise...........they aren't up to it!

The fools paradise they lived in under Bailey is over.

While they all struggle to come to grips with the effort and professionalism required to be elite AFL players, it's the supporters who have to suffer yet again.

There's no light at the end of the tunnel for this year, it will finish up a bus crash.................but Neeld needs to be fully backed in to get the job done, and tough calls on players are going to have to be made.

How a player from another Club in Clark can come in show true passion, commitment, and effort compared to his teammates highlights the diabolical mindset of some of our players!

Think of the draft picks!!

I would like my fellow demonlander's thought's on chris connley and cameron swabb. My mate in W.A thinks as long as we have these guys in our club we will fail. I have been a fan of swabb would love someone to tell me if cameron swabb's blue print is just rubbish and he said on that whiteboard show we were at base camp in 2010. i Think we are well and truely at base camp now that's 2 years ago. Maybe this blue print is just crap. Please tell me your thought's on our CEO cheers.