here are our 11 most senior players.

Bartram Debut 2006 Leadership Group 2012

Bate 2006 N/A

Davey 2004 Demoted

Dunn 2006 N/A

Green 2000 Demoted

Jamar 2003 2012

Macdonald 2004 N/A

Moloney 2003 Demoted

Rivers 2003 Demoted

Sylvia 2004 N/A

Jones 2006 2010?

as you can see there aren't too many hodges, mitchells or lewis' in that group

At another club, without Bailey destroying the development of a generation of MFC players, Green, Sylvia and Davey could match Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis.

Recruiting>We have plenty of stars recruited at high picks which were established by the industry not just MelbFC

Coaching> we have a new coach with a different approach to development

Role Models> our club champions and new coaches are well known to players and community

Soft culture>Softness need not be a synonym for defeat, it is a necessary part of emotive mix. Lack of hardness is being adressed. Both need to be applied at appropriate times.

It is good to have expectations for all players to give them something to strive for, its the best /only way to get improvement Star is a relative term

I still havent seen enough of the new team playres structures etc to make a definitive analysis of where we are relative to Bailey

I thought Neeld acknowledged that we were inexperienced by refering to the experience of Hawks So I agree!

So on what you have said above...Does that mean the years 2008-2011 Onfield were a waste of time?

If you even consider for a moment, the answer yes...then it could only be the MFC.

No other club could justify even the mere thought of wasting such valuable time and draft picks!!

I look and see who we drafted in those "rebuilding years" a lot of athletes and few footballers...& some have even walked.

I will be there in Round 1..but it is the effort i see in Round 2 (OVER THERE) where i will watch our new coach to see how we really sit.

So on what you have said above...Does that mean the years 2008-2011 Onfield were a waste of time?

If you even consider for a moment, the answer yes...then it could only be the MFC.

No other club could justify even the mere thought of wasting such valuable time and draft picks!!

I look and see who we drafted in those "rebuilding years" a lot of athletes and few footballers...& some have even walked.

I will be there in Round 1..but it is the effort i see in Round 2 (OVER THERE) where i will watch our new coach to see how we really sit.

2008-2011 not a complete waste of time but perhaps a wasted opportunity and I have said we have a new coach with a different approach to development. The old approach was seen to fail. I too dont want to see another period of rebuilding without progress. that progress will need success round 2 might be a little early to tell.

Our re-build will very much come in the form of this years trade/draft period, in which we will use our CP's (one would think). Players also not up to MN's standards will be traded or delisted. Given this draft is meant to be a fairly deep one, hopefully we'll pick up some gems and not need to do a full re-build for some time to come.

when do we have to nominate the use of compensation picks?

and if we elect to use them this year, then wish to utilise them in a trade for a gaff / dangerfield / gray / boak, would the club we traded them to then be compelled to use them in this coming draft?

Our re-build will very much come in the form of this years trade/draft period, in which we will use our CP's (one would think). Players also not up to MN's standards will be traded or delisted. Given this draft is meant to be a fairly deep one, hopefully we'll pick up some gems and not need to do a full re-build for some time to come.

DD, this is not levelled at you, but I'm getting sick of this 'deep draft' fallacy. Do you, or another poster know any boys that will have an instant impact? I'm talking in 2 years' time rather than the 5 or 6 year path we're on now.....

when do we have to nominate the use of compensation picks?

and if we elect to use them this year, then wish to utilise them in a trade for a gaff / dangerfield / gray / boak, would the club we traded them to then be compelled to use them in this coming draft?

Why would Gaff/Dangerfield/Gray/Boak want to leave their clubs? Gaff and Dangerfield are looking at finals and Gray and Boak will become leaders and take Port into a new era......getting one of these guys is pure fantasy.

Why would Gaff/Dangerfield/Gray/Boak want to leave their clubs? Gaff and Dangerfield are looking at finals and Gray and Boak will become leaders and take Port into a new era......getting one of these guys is pure fantasy.

And so was getting Mitch CLARK 8 months ago

One would hope so DD, because having just watched part of last saturdays game, the years 2008-2011 look a total failure to me right now...& it hurts. I have watched Hawthorn treat us like dirt all my life, i am 48 & certain people on here tell me i am being impatient!!

Hawthorn have won 9 Flags in that time....& i am impatient!!!

Recruit some big ugly footballers Melbourne...Just Do it.

...Does that mean the years 2008-2011 Onfield were a waste of time?

The answer is obviously Yes. Because the years 2000-2008 (approx) were a complete waste of time off-field.

It could be argued that he did.......

Ask the Saints supporters about that, he was their version of Morton in the early days.

And so was getting Mitch CLARK 8 months ago

Salient point - but I don't think that the Club has another 600 - 800k a year floating around to pay another Clark.

Our re-build will very much come in the form of this years trade/draft period, in which we will use our CP's (one would think). Players also not up to MN's standards will be traded or delisted. Given this draft is meant to be a fairly deep one, hopefully we'll pick up some gems and not need to do a full re-build for some time to come.

No it wont. Our re-build will come from investing millions upon millions of $$$$$$$ inside our football department.

One would hope so DD, because having just watched part of last saturdays game, the years 2008-2011 look a total failure to me right now...& it hurts. I have watched Hawthorn treat us like dirt all my life, i am 48 & certain people on here tell me i am being impatient!!

Hawthorn have won 9 Flags in that time....& i am impatient!!!

Recruit some big ugly footballers Melbourne...Just Do it.

+++++++1

The answer is obviously Yes. Because the years 2000-2008 (approx) were a complete waste of time off-field.

Of course, how could i forget those times. For example. Sit on top of the ladder after Round 18 & then proceed to lose the next 5 games, & thus booted out ingloriously of the finals in week one.

Only the mighty Demons could do that, the club i love.

And we are still 3 years away from September!!!!

Salient point - but I don't think that the Club has another 600 - 800k a year floating around to pay another Clark.

I think we have a bit with a lot of front end loaded contracts but really just ointing out despite what Demonland seems to want to portray not all doom and gloom with our club, you have to crawl before you can walk, big changes since the end of 2011 but will take time anyone who thinks otherwise will be disapointed for the first half of the season IMO

Of course, how could i forget those times. For example. Sit on top of the ladder after Round 18 & then proceed to lose the next 5 games, & thus booted out ingloriously of the finals in week one.

Only the mighty Demons could do that, the club i love.

And we are still 3 years away from September!!!!

Bollocks we will be part of September in 2013, not what those on here want to hear but thats the truth and people always tell me we only made the GF in 2000 becuase we had the Olympics and finals were in August, GF was September and look what Dees turned up although that Bombers side was very good

One would hope so DD, because having just watched part of last saturdays game, the years 2008-2011 look a total failure to me right now...& it hurts. I have watched Hawthorn treat us like dirt all my life, i am 48 & certain people on here tell me i am being impatient!!

Hawthorn have won 9 Flags in that time....& i am impatient!!!

Recruit some big ugly footballers Melbourne...Just Do it.

You and I are old enough to remember Hawthorn with just 1 premiership - i went to the GF for their second in 1971

Again we were beaten up by a big bodied aggresive club on the weekend.

Very true, but it can change relatively quickly. Hawthorn were constantly bullied by Essendon in the early 2,000's. They decided they weren't going to take it any more, which led to the infamous "line in the sand" match in 2004. Three and a half years later they were premiers. I'm not suggesting that we'll follow that pathway, but it can be changed and it doesn't have to take an eternity.

You and I are old enough to remember Hawthorn with just 1 premiership - i went to the GF for their second in 1971

I have seen the majority of them nutbean.

They took The dees mantle in the 70's and have maintained it ever since.

I truely admire this club. ( remember we wanted to merge with them not so long ago )

They are firmly my second team if the dees ever fall over I am a hawk the next day.

I admire them - but I just couldnt bring myself to go elsewhere even if the dees did fall over

You and I are old enough to remember Hawthorn with just 1 premiership - i went to the GF for their second in 1971

I waas there in '71 to Nut. Seen a lot of Hawthorn Flags. They love playing Melbourne. Their president in early '89 told me face to face at a Glenferrie oval Sausage sizzle i was invited to.

And NOTHING HATH CHANGED.

People are talking 2 wins for the first half of the 2012 season. They may well be right, but this club cannot keep surviving such rubbish.

When Lord Jimmy took over in 2008 the rebuilding had to be right.

We can't keep doing it over & over.

I admire them - but I just couldnt bring myself to go elsewhere even if the dees did fall over

You are right nutbean I would give AFL away.

Just got a bit carried away.

much of our list and top draft picks are comprised of skinny outside players that Bailey/Prendergast selected.

Gawn, Fitzpatrick, Cook, Davis, McDonald, Tapscott, even Howe .... skinny outside players?

The site goes into meltdown over a loss in the NAB cup against this year's possible (probably?) premieres. Luckily we don't follow Carlton, Collingwood or even Geelong. They've obviously recruited badly as well.

Gawn, Fitzpatrick, Cook, Davis, McDonald, Tapscott, even Howe .... skinny outside players?

The site goes into meltdown over a loss in the NAB cup against this year's possible (probably?) premieres. Luckily we don't follow Carlton, Collingwood or even Geelong. They've obviously recruited badly as well.

This aint meltdown. It's just a bunch of die hard supporters being honest about the club we love.

We have seen more rubbish than most, & it aint finished yet.

And i will donate mor $$$$ to the football department this year.

Will you?