Blaming the umpires is just another excuse . I haven't seen enough decisions yet that I would question but then again I never blame umpires . I see it as a cop out .

We lost the game last night all over the ground and on the scoreboard . We're so far behind the top teams in so many aspects it's not funny . But ..................we're not on our own in that area and I reckon we can match it with the most of the other teams .

Neeld has a lot of work to do . Last night I saw so many fundamentals not adhered to . We've been taught to play a certain way in the last 4-5 years and old habits die hard . We did win the contested footy count which is most pleasing .

A lot of our players don't know how to position themselves when they've got a chance for a free kick . And we often tackle in a very clumsy way . Again , Neeld has a lot of work to do .

Umpires just call it as they see it . There's no bias against us .

Cheers

Sorry, Macca, but I disagree. I don't reckon we lost it all over the ground. We matched the Hawks in contested ball so we had our chances of winning a hard ball and getting it into our hands. First - in our poise and disposal we shot ourselves in the foot. Second - we could not find a way to stall their accurate kicking and possession game.

How was the game plan when we beat the Magpies last week?

To say you know, or to judge, the game plan based on 3 pre-season games is absurd. Are you basing it on the media, which has nothing else to talk about?

A sane poster at last!

Thanks Maldon Boy thats exactly the comment I needed, and Choko also.

I managed to get to the game and that's what I saw too. Ball use was much better by the Hawks, we seemed to fumble a lot and I thought we dropped a few gettable marks.

Hawks work rate was better, they found space and spare men.

I also noticed during the warm up there was a midfield drill where there'd be a tap out and then successive hand balls while on the move. During the game I thought we lacked attack on the ball at times and ended up flat footed. Too often I saw we waited for the ball and didn't attack.

It was a fairly flat performance in my opinion.

BTW someone needs to get a message to Davey to keep his hands out of the oppositions back. He needs to find a better way of dealing with marking contests.

Maybe if Davey plays in front of his man he won't have to concern himself with hands in the back .

Another fundamental that our players need to learn . It's the sort of thing that you get taught in the under 10's . It takes courage to play in front all the time . Too many of our players play from behind . Old habits die hard .

Step 1 is probably winning the contested possession count (which we did again) but there's lots more steps to be taken .

Cheers

Blaming the umpires is just another excuse . I haven't seen enough decisions yet that I would question but then again I never blame umpires . I see it as a cop out .

We lost the game last night all over the ground and on the scoreboard . We're so far behind the top teams in so many aspects it's not funny . But ..................we're not on our own in that area and I reckon we can match it with the most of the other teams .

Neeld has a lot of work to do . Last night I saw so many fundamentals not adhered to . We've been taught to play a certain way in the last 4-5 years and old habits die hard . We did win the contested footy count which is most pleasing .

A lot of our players don't know how to position themselves when they've got a chance for a free kick . And we often tackle in a very clumsy way . Again , Neeld has a lot of work to do .

Umpires just call it as they see it . There's no bias against us .

Cheers

I don't think anyone is blaming the umps for our poor performance. Criticising the umps performance is another matter.

But I believe there is bias. I think dubious umpiring decisions often favour the better team - and it's not just because the better team is first to the ball etc etc. It is probably natural to err in that way as they "call it as they see it" - they see it through this psychological distortion. I suppose at the back of their mind is a feeling that it is more likely that the poorer team's player committed an error than the better team's player.

Unfortunately, this sort of bias will appear to be a bias against MFC because we haven't been the better team for quite a while.

Sorry, Macca, but I disagree. I don't reckon we lost it all over the ground. We matched the Hawks in contested ball so we had our chances of winning a hard ball and getting it into our hands. First - in our poise and disposal we shot ourselves in the foot. Second - we could not find a way to stall their accurate kicking and possession game.

Yeah , you're right . I neglected to mention that we did win the contested possession count . ( Which I did in another thread ) .

Winning that KPI is very important and gives us a decent base to work from ( if we can keep it up ) . I was trying to address the perceived bias against us by the umpires and sometimes important other factors can get lost .

Good point and I've adjusted my earlier post .

Cheers .

From the little I managed to see on TV, it seemed that the big gap was crisp and clean disposal to players working their buts off to make space and options.

Skill?

Fitness?

Enthusiasm?

Experience and familiarity with game plan?

PS: just watching SBS UEFA Barcelonla v Bayer Leverkusen. Barcelona absolutely ruthlessly dominated with magic foot skills. Similarities - once a champion team gets on top, watch out! 7-1!

I think your right Mon', but it all starts with composure. Having team composure comes from confidence in your own ability to carry out the plan, confidence in your teamates to do likewise, and then all having confidence.

Then the side will start to Focus,,, & we'll all see the results, when that 'clicks' into place...

At the moment we are struggling to Learn and to Implement the New changes taking place with pour Game structures. This will fall into place as we settle the team and get some real games played together.

We are still playing some then resting some, so every week the side is a little unsettled.... The highly developed teams like the Hawks & Pies, Cats are very settled and exprienced, & so have a High level of confidence & composure, not to mention their size & power.

We will grow our game thru the season.

We need to be Ready for Our Rnd 1 game,,, Rnds 3 & 4,,, to get off to a good start.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/fixture/tabid/15354/default.aspx

I don't think anyone is blaming the umps for our poor performance. Criticising the umps performance is another matter.

But I believe there is bias. I think dubious umpiring decisions often favour the better team - and it's not just because the better team is first to the ball etc etc. It is probably natural to err in that way as they "call it as they see it" - they see it through this psychological distortion. I suppose at the back of their mind is a feeling that it is more likely that the poorer team's player committed an error than the better team's player.

Unfortunately, this sort of bias will appear to be a bias against MFC because we haven't been the better team for quite a while.

Yep , my thinking has always been that the better teams should get more free kicks . In fact , I don't reckon the better teams get rewarded enough .

Many people want the free kick count to be even . This has never made sense to me . Home town bias does happen however . This will never change either . It's just a fact of sport .

Cheers .

Robbo would make a lot of our current players look 2nd rate . He was often a match winner . Most of our players of the last 5 years have been "match losers" . Are you happy with "bruise free" types ? At the very least Robbo had a go . More than I can say about quite a number on our list .

Comparing Howe to Robbo is ridiculous in the extreme . What's he done so far that's so special ? I like Howe and I reckon he has a lot of potential but he's got a fair way to go to match Robbo's heights . In fact , if Howe turns out to be as good as Robbo I'll be very happy .

Robbo played 228 games , kicked 428 goals and helped us get to many finals series' . Not too shabby .

Have a bit of respect for a terrific past player .

Cheers .

Not comparing him at all Macca, many have labelled him the new Robbo, not me. I just hope he doesn't fall into the same bad habits.

Not comparing him at all Macca, many have labelled him the new Robbo, not me. I just hope he doesn't fall into the same bad habits.

But rjay , Howe needs to (1st of all) establishing himself in the team as one of the 1st picked . Then he has to help win games for us consistantly . To reach the heights of Robbo he will also have to "turn games on their head" .

As I've already said , I've got a lot of time for Howe and reckon he's got a lot of potential .

Robbo's bad habits ? He was what he was . A player who backed himself to take a decent grab and kick a goal . He did this very well . What were you looking for ? Wayne Carey ?

If memory serves me correct Robbo was a rookie . In some ways he over-achieved .

Cheers

Don't blame the umpires for yesterdays loss. Blame being second to the ball & poorly exexuted tackles.

Frustrating i know, but reality.

I want to know what this club was teaching the list between October 2007 until late last year?

Kicking & handballing skills are not gameplan, they are fundamentals to Aussie Football.

Mark Neeld will earn every cent if he gets these boys firing.

Agree with you Macca that first he needs to establish himself, I just don't want to see him being a one trick pony and rely on the big grab. I would really like to see him play up the ground and move into the midfield at times, he seems to have the tank and all round game to do it.

Being known for his highlight reel and as the new Robbo is not the stuff to build a career on. Having seen him at Casey before his debut and his games since he has shown a lot of other aspects, but as the coach said last night "he needs to be more consistant", more games under the belt with experience and lets hope he is a beauty.

Agree with you Macca that first he needs to establish himself, I just don't want to see him being a one trick pony and rely on the big grab. I would really like to see him play up the ground and move into the midfield at times, he seems to have the tank and all round game to do it.

Being known for his highlight reel and as the new Robbo is not the stuff to build a career on. Having seen him at Casey before his debut and his games since he has shown a lot of other aspects, but as the coach said last night "he needs to be more consistant", more games under the belt with experience and lets hope he is a beauty.

Fair enough rjay , but what so often happens in our game is the gifted forward isn't great defensively and those less gifted are better defensively . The really great one's did both well but not always .

I could compile a "list" of all-time great forwards who didn't chase well or who weren't great defensively . It's just the way it is . The game has changed obviously but there's still plenty of forwards who play an "older" style of game . I can live with it if the upside is very good to excellent .

Give me a 23-25 yo Robbo in this team right now .

Cheers

Don't blame the umpires for yesterdays loss. Blame being second to the ball & poorly exexuted tackles.

Frustrating i know, but reality.

I want to know what this club was teaching the list between October 2007 until late last year?

Kicking & handballing skills are not gameplan, they are fundamentals to Aussie Football.

Mark Neeld will earn every cent if he gets these boys firing.

WYL, sorry to pick you up on this, but you felt sorry for Bailey when he got sacked??

WYL, sorry to pick you up on this, but you felt sorry for Bailey when he got sacked??

Yes i did & still do. He was employed to do a specific job under very tight reigns with a massively under funded Football Department. The problem was far deeper than one man.

When we kicked in from a point Jack Watts positioned inside the centre square - we're going to go long to a contest on the boundary line every time and we're never going into the corridor. He cannot be part of the play with this set-up. I just don't get it.

When we kick into a one-on-one in the forward 50 with Aaron Davey against a significantly taller opponent, why kick it up so he's got absolutely no chance? It's a revolutionary idea - kick it along the ground.

Yes i did & still do. He was employed to do a specific job under very tight reigns with a massively under funded Football Department. The problem was far deeper than one man.

Yeah - the recruiting guy.

Why don't we go after the Hawthorn chap?

Yeah - the recruiting guy.

Why don't we go after the Hawthorn chap?

Whoever it was/is i cannot answer, but it is a concern that the last 4 years look to have achieved little, when we were granted opportunities we may not get again. Free Agency could rip this list apart well before it has matured if the club is planning another patient wait.

2012 this list has got to learn fast. We have all done it at our respective jobs at time, when a situation arises.

If yesterday's team was full of Casey kids i wouldn't be worried, but we had a lot of experience out their last night.

140 less posessions

10 less tackles

This is the why and how the side lost yesterday

Severe lack of pressure and effort

The changes for next week will be interesting here are my changes

Moloney out - 85% game time for 14 possessions at 43% disposal efficiency 5 direct turnovers

Sylvia out - 80% game time for 17 possessions at 24% disposal efficiency 5 turnovers

Bennell out - 85 % of game time didn't lay a tackle playing in defence

Buddy Franklin is also the arsiest player I have ever watched play the game.

If he is arsey then he is the most consistent arsiest player I have seen in a long while. I think I prefer the word "freakish footballer"

Every cloud has a silver lining... we beat Collingwood last week, we got done like dinners by Hawthorn this week. How bad does that make Collingwood, who this week got thrashed by Adelaide?

About as bad as Geelong last year. Who had a terrible pre-season and then won a flag.

I thought the main difference was their clean ball handling compared to our fumbling. I am Also not convinced by long bombs to no-one in particular. I would hate to be a demon forward last night.

I thought the main difference was their clean ball handling compared to our fumbling. I am Also not convinced by long bombs to no-one in particular. I would hate to be a demon forward last night.

Yes. Basic Football principles. Granted Hawthorn were on song. But we all knew they would be.

I thought the main difference was their clean ball handling compared to our fumbling. I am Also not convinced by long bombs to no-one in particular. I would hate to be a demon forward last night.

Really? I'm damn convinced. Convinced that it's not a good idea, that is. Seriously, all the wraps are on Jack Watts pace off the mark, and yet I've hardly ever seen us hit him up on the lead. What's with that? Putting the ball on top of Jack Watts head is a dumb strategy, and I want it banned. Save that crap for when we're in a final and Mitch Clark is marking everything.

I thought the main difference was their clean ball handling compared to our fumbling. I am Also not convinced by long bombs to no-one in particular. I would hate to be a demon forward last night.

There were a number of times we bombed it long "into space" but our forwards were caught behind their man . Other times we kicked it long to a contest but had no crumbers . The Hawks looked like they played an extra player or 2 in their backline to counteract our style .

I'm hoping that Neeld wanted us to kick it long into the forward line (all night ?) as an experiment . There didn't seem to be a lot of "science" to our game plan but it did seem to work better last weekend against the Pies .

There has to be different ways of having forward forays ( short passing , going wide , more handball etc etc ) but ...............I'm happy to give Neeld the benefit of the doubt . Win the contested ball and kick it long may well be the instructions (for now) . He may see that as the first steps to getting back to the basics .

Cheers