That easy, eh?

Easy peasy! Except for that pesky other ruckman trying to tap it to _his_ bloke, but that's a minor detail.

Easy peasy! Except for that pesky other ruckman trying to tap it to _his_ bloke, but that's a minor detail.

that and their players getting in better position to receive ( take advantage/make use )

The Russian is far from the problem

We rarely clear the ball from the centre bounce. This failure is important in our poor results.

One of the four Demons in the centre square is low-skilled, slow, and has no spring. He is invariably shorter and slower than his direct opponent.

We blame the midfielders for their inability to clear the ball. Perhaps they receive less assistance than their peers.

We are too much influenced by the hit- out statistics, though against Richmond they did highlight the lamentably low efficiency of ours. Forget the hit-out stats. Watch the game closely. We are rarely hitting the ball to our advantage. Perhaps Spencer or Gawn will one day be able to knock the ball to our advantage.

We rarely clear the ball from the centre bounce. This failure is important in our poor results.

One of the four Demons in the centre square is low-skilled, slow, and has no spring. He is invariably shorter and slower than his direct opponent.

We blame the midfielders for their inability to clear the ball. Perhaps they receive less assistance than their peers.

We are too much influenced by the hit- out statistics, though against Richmond they did highlight the lamentably low efficiency of ours. Forget the hit-out stats. Watch the game closely. We are rarely hitting the ball to our advantage. Perhaps Spencer or Gawn will one day be able to knock the ball to our advantage.

JJC, I am not sure Jamar is any shorter than he was last year or even the AA year before. And on what time trial are you basing our slowness of Jamar on how and how does that impact on the centre bounce?

We are certainly missing Moloney fit and firing but can you tell me the last time an MFC player could handle a football cleanly one touch from a hitout either ours or theres. And if you actually watch the game closely (like you claim) then its self serving and erroneous to ignore the hitouts.

One thing I have noticed is that Beemer often sits at the feet of Jamar. Many times the ball falls straight to ground. Ablett does that a lot as well but he can get out of traffic, Moloney can't most often and handballs out.

When Beemer is not there most of our mids hang around the outside rather than go inside and get it. Just a thought.

JJC, I am not sure Jamar is any shorter than he was last year or even the AA year before. And on what time trial are you basing our slowness of Jamar on how and how does that impact on the centre bounce?

We are certainly missing Moloney fit and firing but can you tell me the last time an MFC player could handle a football cleanly one touch from a hitout either ours or theres. And if you actually watch the game closely (like you claim) then its self serving and erroneous to ignore the hitouts.

I wish I could just be erroneous, and not "self- serving",too. That' s a reprehensible fault.

But I feel Jamar's slowness is not just his foot-speed, which has always been glacial.

Perhaps there' s another explanation for his failure to find team-mates with his taps than his height disadvantage and lack of spring.

Fast reflexes and hand-eye coordination are crucial in the hurley-burley chaos at the centre bounce. Mark doesn't fill me with confidence with respect to either of those features .

I do try to watch closely both at the game, and on the Foxtel replays, because I really want to understand why we have so much trouble gaining clearances. Everyone blames the non-ruck midfielders. I'm offering an alternative suggestion.

Fast reflexes and hand-eye coordination are crucial in the hurley-burley chaos at the centre bounce.

And that where our midfielders should be and that where they lack those skills. Aside from Jones at times, I cant think of many times we were one touch (rather than a hot potato) juggle on our first and second touches on the ball. We dont handle the ball well and we dont use it well. Jamar's role most of the time when the ball up has been held is to use his strength where necessary to block/clear paths for others.

Jamar has had one great year. We have a number of ruckmen. We need mids...I can't see the Jamar/Martin thing continuing. Tough decisions looming.

Very unlucky Gawny went down with another knee. I saw him play a couple of times last year v Bombers and Tigers. He gives Jamar a good rest and we didn't lose any momentum His height and extra spring made ruck work look easy. Jamar is Gutsy no doubt about it and I reckon deep down we all love him but he is no Cox/Mumford/Nicnat/kruezer. Not even close. Martin seems to have Co-Ordination issues a BA and poor disposal. Martin takes forever to get the ball from hand to foot. Reminds me of of Jack of all trades but master of none. For all Martin's attributes he should of gone forward leaps and bounds this year but sadly has gone backwards. Perhaps it's the game plan holding him back? Back to Jamar Trade time perhaps a good three way trade may come at Season's end and by that time Gawn, Fitzpatrick and Co may be available.

What do you think boys?-another gun midfielder to work beside Viney, Jones, Moloney, Jurrah, Trengove and Sylvia.

Edited April 18, 201213 yr by thaipantsman

For a novel approach how about Jamar and Martin swap roles this week? Martin gets the lead ruck and Jamar relieves, sits on the bench or goes forward occasionally. Both players need some extra incentive to pep up their game. Martin last year showed he thrives on more responsibility.

Edited April 18, 201213 yr by Jackie

Same again against Bulldogs. Official stats accredit Jamar with over 40 hit outs(only against Minson and Roughead).

Watching the game it was obvious that his tap outs were of no benefit to Melbourne. In fact, the opposition roved his knockouts better than we did, they were so predictable.

Even when favoured by the bounce he would do the soft tap down to the ground near his left foot, resulting in a 2 minute scrimmage. Only once did he tap it away from the pack.("tap", never THUMP!)

Marking was difficult with the slippery ball, but he didn't do that either.

We have very little hope of wins for two months now. Let's try to give Fitzpatrick some senior experience. He's definitely not up to it, but we're going to lose anyway,so let's get the games into him.

Article from Todays paper says Jamar is a prime target for clubs like Cats and Pies that are close to a flag but dont have an A-grade ruckman,

Seems a plausible scenario, and in a way i wouldnt begrudge a player this chance, given his free agency status

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Melbourne+faces+uphill+battle+to+keep+Mark+Jamar&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvnsuo&source=univ&tbm=nws&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=_V-XT8r0Gs6hiAfgyYWfCg&ved=0CDEQqAIoADAA

There would be a touch of irony if Jamar moved on to Collingwood and pushed Splinters Jolly out of the side.

Yeah ironic and sad that we are a ruckman feeder club for Collingwood!

Mark got even more hit outs against St Kilda, but with a lamentable efficiency.

I hope some of his suitors had a superficial look at the stats, and said "we want this guy!"

Apparently Fitzpatrick held his own for a half against Goldstein last week. Let's get him in to gain more experience against AFL ruckmen.

Mark got even more hit outs against St Kilda, but with a lamentable efficiency.

I hope some of his suitors had a superficial look at the stats, and said "we want this guy!"

Apparently Fitzpatrick held his own for a half against Goldstein last week. Let's get him in to gain more experience against AFL ruckmen.

Watch the tape again and stop watching the stats sheets. In greasy conditions, Jamar was very good and towelled the St Kilda talls. He also gave strong supply to his smaller players.

From all reliable reports, Spencer rucked against Goldstein who is a very good player and was beaten and Jake slightly underdone .Fitzpatrick played forward. Cant see any sense in swapping Jamar for Fitz at all.

I do not rate Fitzpatrick AT ALL.

I know he is young and Melbourne supporters who have never actually watched our kids at Casey play love that, but you know, that doesn't actually make him a good player... Just saying.

Mark got even more hit outs against St Kilda, but with a lamentable efficiency.

I hope some of his suitors had a superficial look at the stats, and said "we want this guy!"

Apparently Fitzpatrick held his own for a half against Goldstein last week. Let's get him in to gain more experience against AFL ruckmen.

Whilst St. Kilda's ruckmen are almost complete pants, the bloke got 55 hitouts! Surely the mids are to blame, at least for the most part! They know where he's going to tap it to.......

And no. Spencer played on him, and was completely towelled. Not completely unexpected, considering he's played no footy in the past 12 months.

Whilst St. Kilda's ruckmen are almost complete pants, the bloke got 55 hitouts! Surely the mids are to blame, at least for the most part! They know where he's going to tap it to.......

And no. Spencer played on him, and was completely towelled. Not completely unexpected, considering he's played no footy in the past 12 months.

Jamar taps it straight to his feet. Even if you knew how to pick it up cleanly, you'd be swamped by opponents as soon as you got the thing.

We rarely clear the ball from the centre bounce. This failure is important in our poor results.

One of the four Demons in the centre square is low-skilled, slow, and has no spring. He is invariably shorter and slower than his direct opponent.

We blame the midfielders for their inability to clear the ball. Perhaps they receive less assistance than their peers.

We are too much influenced by the hit- out statistics, though against Richmond they did highlight the lamentably low efficiency of ours. Forget the hit-out stats. Watch the game closely. We are rarely hitting the ball to our advantage. Perhaps Spencer or Gawn will one day be able to knock the ball to our advantage.

No. 2 in average hit outs in the comp over the first 5 rounds. Only bettered by Sandilands. Mumford a close 3rd. Tom Bell-Chambers sitting in 4th but with about 9 (on average) less hit outs per game so far. Jolly in 6th with about 10 less on average.

Hit outs to advantage efficiency might not be up there with some others, but the middle is seeing some pretty major rotational change ups through there atm while Neeld and Co. filter through the players to trial, try and train them.

I wouldn't worry so much. Once the efficiency goes up ie., Everyone learns where they're supposed to line up in the structure and when/where they're supposed to run into the regular Jamar hit out "zones/spaces" you'll find it'll slowly get better, as will our clearance work. Currently ranked 10th in clearances.

We don't just need more clearances though.....it's the disposal efficiency that's letting us down big time IMO. We're sitting last here behind the Cats and GC. Once this goes up substantially you'll see most aspects of our game improve, including better quality of entries inside 50 and more goals.

Dumping Jamar at this point would be a huge error IMO, unless you replace him with someone of similar quality or better and who has a ready made AFL frame. And other than Sandilands and Mumford, at this point we'd be taking someone of lessor value IMO.

Build up Fitzy and Gawn as back up etc sure....but a big mistake losing Jamar (if we have any say in it) for mine.

Edited May 3, 201213 yr by Rusty Nails

Does Jamar realise that playing ruck isn't just about how many taps you win, but what you actually do with them? One incident in particular today - there was a ball up, West (I think) stumbled, Jamar had a "free" tap, tapped it straight to a fcuking Geelong player. Absolutely no excuse for that.

I love the Russian, but sorry buddy, you are under-performing. He should be in the top 3 rucks in the league, he's helping the opposition midfield get in to form.

Does Jamar realise that playing ruck isn't just about how many taps you win, but what you actually do with them? One incident in particular today - there was a ball up, West (I think) stumbled, Jamar had a "free" tap, tapped it straight to a fcuking Geelong player. Absolutely no excuse for that.

I love the Russian, but sorry buddy, you are under-performing. He should be in the top 3 rucks in the league, he's helping the opposition midfield get in to form.

I saw that too and commented on it in another thread.

When are the Melbourne players taking the kick in going to realize it's a waste of time kicking it to the Russian in the hope he'll take the mark?

The guy doesn't take marks.

His commitment and effort are beyond question. Unfortunately he lacks talent.

Spencer and Fitzpatrick both looked promising for the Scorps yesterday, and should be given as much senior experience as possible.

I see Jamar as a classic"list-clogger".

So many Demonland posters see him as beyond reproach.

Edited May 7, 201213 yr by JUMPING JACK CLENNETT

Note to Mark Jamar - watch the replay of Mitch Clark's game last night when both in the ruck, and up forward. Intensity around the ball, especially while in the ruck, is required at all times.