Narrowing in on either Grimes or Trengove for Captain

[Nasher 33,607]

One thing I find intriguing about Brent Moloney, was his role in the 186 debacle which in my opinion has never been satisfactorily explained. Sort of disappeared in the storm that blew up soon after. Nil possessions till halftime then subbed which is a very strange statistic for a leading midfielder.

It has been explained - he had the flu and should never have played.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,725]

We all have different ideas on who would be the most suitable choice.

He isn't my first choice, but unlike another mooted leader (Jamar) he has been in the Leadership Group in his career.

And unlike another mooted leader (Moloney) the difference between his best games and his worst games isn't huge.

And unlike another mooted leader (Grimes) he consistently stays on the park.

And unlike another mooted leader (Green) his body language isn't pathetic when things are difficult.

I am not saying I would give him the reigns because of these reasons, but he is in the mix for the captaincy and these arguments in favour of him.

Again, I will say - stop putting crosses through names people, because you will be left with 6 vice-captains and no captains...

We have no perfect candidate.

Jones would be a Richie Vandenberg-like appointment.

[Guest Jackie]

It has been explained - he had the flu and should never have played.

How extraordinary that he should have been allowed to play.

[Nasher 33,607]

How extraordinary that he should have been allowed to play.

I never said it was a good explanation. If you're expecting a better one, though, I expect you're going to be waiting for a long time.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,725]

If a reason for a captain is that "he gives time for X and Y to develop into a captain" you may aswell forget about it.

Green may be captain again, but it will be because of a significant improvement of his leadership in the off-season (if the new FD can determine that) and hopefully a heart-to-heart with Neeld about what is expected of him.

Besides, his redemption will come with consistent performances as a leader and he can do that without a title, and might be better off achieving this redemption (if it required for fans) without a title.

Obviously there was a reason he was made captain in the first place and was the overwhelming choice of the supporters as well judging by the online forums. He had a crap year last year but has been a consistent performer through most of his career (bar maybe one season). He won't be appointed captain just to warm the seat but in a team that has a large majority of our players in the beginning of their careers that is obviously going to be one consideration to take into account.

With the experience of a year under his belt as captain (and lets be honest it was a tough year for all the senior players on our list and the FD not just Green) there's no reason why he won't learn from that experience and be a better player, leader and captain in 2012. It's a better option than giving the captaincy to Moloney or Jones who could very well put out a season like Green's 2011 without the experience to fall back on. Giving the captaincy to one of the mid-late 20yo's on our list would prevent the club having to strip them of the captaincy in a couple of years when either Trengove or Grimes (or another young player like Watts) would be ready to take over.

[Guest Jackie]

There haven't been many good or plausible explanations to the clubs missteps of the past few years. I hope that is all behind us.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I'd go with Green. Grimes is ideal if he can play but he needs a solid year on the field. Trengove just needs to play. It'll will be fascinating © to see what happens.

I understand why you and some others see the merit in retaining the incumbent, but it overlooks one glaring problem. Last year the game caught up to Green in a major way. He was terribly slow, which was a significant reason in his form decline. In fact, your avatar would have given him a run for his money.

This club needs a new direction and I feel certain Mark Neeld will give it one.

[Juicebox 628]

We all have a fairly good idea of who is and isn't a chance for the captaincy, but the fact is we have no idea what goes on behind closed doors.

We praise Grimes for his leadership, but we haven't got a clue as to what it was he was doing that earnt himself the leadership award. (Not that I have any doubt he deserved it.)

There also seems to be this assumption that a player who struggles with or avoids the media, is a poor communicator. Is that fairly justified?

The nail was hit on the head by rpfc, we have no perfect candidate.

[rpfc 28,052]

Obviously there was a reason he was made captain in the first place and was the overwhelming choice of the supporters as well judging by the online forums. He had a crap year last year but has been a consistent performer through most of his career (bar maybe one season). He won't be appointed captain just to warm the seat but in a team that has a large majority of our players in the beginning of their careers that is obviously going to be one consideration to take into account.

With the experience of a year under his belt as captain (and lets be honest it was a tough year for all the senior players on our list and the FD not just Green) there's no reason why he won't learn from that experience and be a better player, leader and captain in 2012. It's a better option than giving the captaincy to Moloney or Jones who could very well put out a season like Green's 2011 without the experience to fall back on. Giving the captaincy to one of the mid-late 20yo's on our list would prevent the club having to strip them of the captaincy in a couple of years when either Trengove or Grimes (or another young player like Watts) would be ready to take over.

I believe I posted pretty much the same sentiments last off-season - whoever gets the captaincy will be an adequate choice.

The case is true again, I don't get tangled in universal statements or exaggerations - Green will be a decent job as captain as he did an average job in 2011.

However, the idea of giving it to him in case Moloney/Jones/Jamar/Rivers are a failure is not a good enough reason, nor is this future planning idea of grooming Trengove or Grimes for 2013.

I want them to pick the best, albeit flawed, candidate we have - regardless of age, experience, and ability (although they all play a part in the selection process) - as captain.

If it's Green, it's Green.

[old55 22,853]

I understand why you and some others see the merit in retaining the incumbent, but it overlooks one glaring problem. Last year the game caught up to Green in a major way. He was terribly slow, which was a significant reason in his form decline. In fact, your avatar would have given him a run for his money.

I agree that's the risk - he may be on the slide and not best 21. Neeld will be able to make that assessment.

[rolly 149]

a tasmanian captain under fire with a young "pup" at his heels...hope the MFC take a look at the model provided by the ACB.

let a young buck take over (my vote would be trengove or jones) but keep the experienced vet in an on field mentor role providing much needed assistance and watch him flourish under diminished responsibility. let him go back to what he does best and hopefully recapture his 2010 form that almost got him AA.

if melbournes clark can score 300 (50 goals aint bad) and the taswegian ex captain can score 150odd (25goals from a pocket/flank would be a fair contribution??) it would go a long way towards us kicking competitive scores each week

[Sir Why You Little 36,670]

Green shouldn't be Captain. Watch the Adelaide game at the MCG. he behaved like a spoilt child, but when he was needed later in the season.. sadly it did not happen. He tried, but the job was beyond him.

Put him in the leadership group for sure. But his DNA is not captain. Who it should be only insiders can tell us that.

But we know it aint Brad.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,857]

Brad Green has been a good player who had a great year in 2010. He has been a fantastic servant of the Melbourne Football Club. James McDonald was a great captain and after his departure there was a massive gap in leadership. Green was seen as the most suited to that leadership role even though he is not a natural leader. He was really the best of a bad bunch. Some people including myself hoped he would rise to the occasion but dealing with such a torrid season of events (which would have been hard for the best of leaders) really highlighted some of his weaknesses. His displays on the football field at times including berating of other players and selfish acts of play were things I never want to see from a Melbourne captain again. His interview On the Couch in the midst of our torrid season made me cringe. He is in the twilight of his career and should be concentrating on giving his best to the team and not worrying about captaincy.

There are reasons why not to go with Trengove (age) and Grimes (injury) but the clearest thing of all is their acts on the field personally and with their team mates and the way they carry themselves on the track and in the media screams natural leader. People that argue that neither has won a B&F or polled Brownlow votes only need to look as far as Nick Maxwell or Tom Harley to see how important that is. The most important thing is they when fit are part of your starting 18 and have the respect of the group.

To me its clearly one of these two. For me they are both firmly entrenched in our best side when fit (or not laying spear tackles). The only thing I dont know is how they are respected across the group and I'm sure the coaches will sort that out from their observations of the group prior to a decision.

Edited January 18, 2012 by big_red_fire_engine

[Range Rover 1,935]

I'll make a bold statement about Green. He faces an uphill battle to regain any semblance of the form he showed in 2010 after his significant slide as a player last season. Truth be told father time is catching up with him and he will be doing well to simply command a place on the field with the bevy of other spring-heeled jack mid-sized forwards on the list..

It would not surprise if Neeld uses him as an impact player or a sub (or possibly even not at all) during the 2012 season. Under that scenario he can't and shouldn't be re-appointed captain.

[rpfc 28,052]

I'll make a bold statement about Green. He faces an uphill battle to regain any semblance of the form he showed in 2010 after his significant slide as a player last season. Truth be told father time is catching up with him and he will be doing well to simply command a place on the field with the bevy of other spring-heeled jack mid-sized forwards on the list..

It would not surprise if Neeld uses him as an impact player or a sub (or possibly even not at all) during the 2012 season. Under that scenario he can't and shouldn't be re-appointed captain.

I don't think that is a likely scenario.

He is a very good player and I expect him to hold his own in 2012.

[DemonWA 3,888]

yeah i'm not writing Green off as a player just yet, still has a very goot set shot and takes a good grab.

I actually dont think he played many really poor games last year. The media got on him in a big way which probably didnt help his form in the latter part of the season. Yes he didnt kick as many as the year before but he wasnt as bad as alot make out

[Hannibal 5,814]

I actually dont think he played many really poor games last year.

One of the more surprising posts I've seen this off-season. We watch football differently.

[Guest Jackie]

yeah i'm not writing Green off as a player just yet, still has a very goot set shot and takes a good grab.

I actually dont think he played many really poor games last year. The media got on him in a big way which probably didnt help his form in the latter part of the season. Yes he didnt kick as many as the year before but he wasnt as bad as alot make out

THe whole season was disaster and very few can hold their heads up high. Still a required player who is not captain material. Not his fault.

[baysidedave 246]

According to recent tweet from Clark at herald sun "Gut feel is dees race down to youngsters Trengove and Grimes. Green's days as skipper prob over. Frawley a smokey. Either way new era."

Bring it on I say!

I reckon they will be co-Captains.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I reckon they will be co-Captains.

Even though Melbourne has historically been a sole captain club I too see that as quite a likely scenario.

[Slartibartfast 16,900]

I haven't read all the posts but has much consideration been given to Moloney, Jones, Frawley or Rivers - even Jamar?

I'm conservative and favour keeping Green purely as a stand in for one year to let Grimes and Trengove have a little more time. But I understand the counter arguments.

[Guest Thomo]

a tasmanian captain under fire with a young "pup" at his heels...hope the MFC take a look at the model provided by the ACB.

let a young buck take over (my vote would be trengove or jones) but keep the experienced vet in an on field mentor role providing much needed assistance and watch him flourish under diminished responsibility. let him go back to what he does best and hopefully recapture his 2010 form that almost got him AA.

if melbournes clark can score 300 (50 goals aint bad) and the taswegian ex captain can score 150odd (25goals from a pocket/flank would be a fair contribution??) it would go a long way towards us kicking competitive scores each week

Michael Clarke is 29 and has played 79 tests and 206 one dayers, hardly a young pup. Letting Gimes or Trengove captain would be more like Cummins or Pattinson.

[640MD 3,327]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Getting rid of Junior as captain and player was ..now.. clearly a mistake

Green was the best in 2010 and probably deserved it, but 2011 was not a good year for any one.

It needs to be someone who will be respected by all the players and who deserves a game each week on todays performances

not the performances of past seasons, Give it to a younger fella who can still grow into the role, not to someone who has reached his personal zenith.

Go Dees Give 'em HELL !!!

[Guest Jackie]

Junior was a great servant of the club but not much of a captain IMO. Just the best of a bad lot in the leaderspin department. I can't see how he could have made 2011 much better. I also doubt if he would have been fit enough to play out half a season.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Jackie

[Sir Why You Little 36,670]

Junior was a great servant of the club but not much of a captain IMO. Just the best of a bad lot in the leaderspin department. I can't see how he could have made 2011 much better. I also doubt if he would have been fit enough to play out half a season.

What did you not rate in Junior's captaincy? I thought he was a beauty myself.