Sheedy threatens Critics

[Demon_spurs 1,867]

You know what would be great? if Kennet took the vacated CEO position and he and Sheeds could have contest over who could make the most ridiculous statements, I reckon it could be close.

[Whispering_Jack 30,580]

I read in an arcticle on Tim Mohr that Junior's going to be drafted by GWS - they've used up all their previouslty listed/draft player picks.

Thanks Old. 

The current GWS primary list as published has thirty players:

1. Kurt Aylett 

2. Dean Brogan 

3. Josh Bruce 

4. Tomas Bugg 

5.  Jeremy Clayton 

6. Stephen Clifton *

7. Chad Cornes 

8. Sam Darley 

9. Phil Davis 

10. Shaun Edwards 

11. Jonathan Giles *

12. Tim Golds 

13.  Joshua Growden 

14. Curtley Hampton 

15. Jack Hombsch 

16. Adam Kennedy 

17. Anthony Miles 

18. Tim Mohr

19. Rhys Palmer 

20. Luke Power

21. Sam Reid 

22. Sam Schulz  

23. Tom Scully 

24. Dylan Shiel 

25. Jacob Townsend 

26. Adam Treloar 

27. Gerard Ugle 

28. Callan Ward 

29. Mark Whiley 

30. Nathan Wilson 

* elevated rookies

The GWS Giants entry rules provide for an expanded list size and TPP allowance in the club’s initial time in the competition, which in 2012, will be as follows:

• Between 44-50 senior list, nine rookies with $640,000 - $1m TPP extra allowance.

The same applies in 2013 & 2014 and subsequently the list numbers and TPP extra allowances reduce progressively until 2019 when they will be in line with the other AFL clubs.

At this year's national draft, they have the following provisional selections:-

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 56 and 85.

If they use all of the selections above plus take Junior in the PSD, they get to the minimum of 44 and could theoretically take more (TPP allowing) and add some mature age rookies (I think they might have a few rookies left over who haven't walked).

The first eleven selections will surely be kids coming into the system for the first time so I'm absolutely stumped as to where on earth they can expect to find the players with strong bodies and capability to hold down key positions for a tough 22 game season and to provide that steadying influence to all of those young, immature players. A handful of players cast off from other clubs' lists won't do the trick.

A bad run with injuries to the few players they have with AFL experience will leave them exposed as no team at this level has ever been before. At least, the Brisbane Bears had some men who could play football.

Further, one of the reasons given for the wide reaching concessions given to GWS was the need for early success in a tough market. This path might get them somewhere in about 2016 or 2017 if they're lucky enough to survive till then but I have my misgivings.

I really fear for this mob and can understand why the AFL might be upset at the direction this club is taking.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

The board decided to turn the list over, and the list manager and recruiters did their jobs. What would have Sheedy done that made it any worse?

My understanding was that Bailey in his presentation to the Board stated that the list had to completely rebulit and culture elements like Travis had to go. Bailey was clear what had to be done. It was hardly down to a Board directive if Bailey had put this as his pitch for the job. He was honest to his intention. I further understand that Sheedy was cast out of the process after the first interview because he could articulate anything about the MFC list in the interview process other than "I am Kevin Sheedy and you either want me or you dont". I cant see how MFC could have gone further with Sheedy and glad they didn't.

[Radar Detector 1,347]

I really fear for this mob and can understand why the AFL might be upset at the direction this club is taking.

I concur. The AFL would surely view this initial phase as a combination of establishing the club for a tilt at a flag in 5-10 years time, as well as establishing a supporter base in a somewhat inhospitable environment. GWS have focussed so steadfastly on building a young list that they look to have their work cut out in order to win any games at all over the next couple of years. I struggle to see how the team will garner any support if they're not winning games which will in turn prolong the AFL's required bankrolling of the team. I suspect the AFL would be less than impressed.

[old dee 23,870]

My understanding was that Bailey in his presentation to the Board stated that the list had to completely rebulit and culture elements like Travis had to go. Bailey was clear what had to be done. It was hardly down to a Board directive if Bailey had put this as his pitch for the job. He was honest to his intention. I further understand that Sheedy was cast out of the process after the first interview because he could articulate anything about the MFC list in the interview process other than "I am Kevin Sheedy and you either want me or you dont". I cant see how MFC could have gone further with Sheedy and glad they didn't.

RR my question is would we have been any worse off than now.

We are a bottom six side at the end of 2011.

We will only rise higher if the a high percentage of the kids we have picked turn into very good players.

The next three years will show if the Bailey era was a success or not.

Other wise Sheedy might have been better.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

RR my question is would we have been any worse off than now.

We are a bottom six side at the end of 2011.

We will only rise higher if the a high percentage of the kids we have picked turn into very good players.

The next three years will show if the Bailey era was a success or not.

Other wise Sheedy might have been better.

And the position is not any different from what I expected. At the end of 2007 our list was a train wreck that was always going to take 5 years to address. We have blooded one of the youngest lists around.

I am actually excited by the young players we have and who is coming through. And yes they will have to come through to make the next steps.

The next 3 years have nothing to add on the Bailey outcome. He ran the risk of seeking to play a modern game style that was too much for under developed and inexperienced team. History has shown that it takes normally at least 7 years to put together a flag team. I cant think of a bigger rebuild than what MFC has done. The next 3 years may say something about how good a recruiter Prendegast is.

Why would Sheedy have been better? What other options were there to do with our train wreck list at the end of 2007 and what sort of future would we have been looking at with Sheedy's habit of recycling often hack players. That was not course of action to repair the list.

[Whispering_Jack 30,580]

Thanks Old.

The current GWS primary list as published has thirty players:

1. Kurt Aylett ...

I've just noticed that my list doesn't include GWS's second most highly paid player in Israel Folau. His inclusion leaves room for one less experienced footballer in the GWS squad.

[old dee 23,870]

And the position is not any different from what I expected. At the end of 2007 our list was a train wreck that was always going to take 5 years to address. We have blooded one of the youngest lists around.

I am actually excited by the young players we have and who is coming through. And yes they will have to come through to make the next steps.

The next 3 years have nothing to add on the Bailey outcome. He ran the risk of seeking to play a modern game style that was too much for under developed and inexperienced team. History has shown that it takes normally at least 7 years to put together a flag team. I cant think of a bigger rebuild than what MFC has done. The next 3 years may say something about how good a recruiter Prendegast is.

Why would Sheedy have been better? What other options were there to do with our train wreck list at the end of 2007 and what sort of future would we have been looking at with Sheedy's habit of recycling often hack players. That was not course of action to repair the list.

It is of course a question with no answer.

As we have both said time will tell.

I am not sure if i believe our juniors are good or I desperately want them to be .

If they are not as good as I hope then the future is bleak.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

It is of course a question with no answer.

As we have both said time will tell.

I am not sure if i believe our juniors are good or I desperately want them to be .

If they are not as good as I hope then the future is bleak.

I am wondering how you determined "Other wise Sheedy might have been better."

If the future is bleak and you believe we cant be worse off than we are currently in 2011 then you will be in your element.

[Sir Why You Little 37,120]

We could well have been playing Home Games at Rooted Hill as the GW$ Demons in 2012 if kevin Sheedy had be appointed coach for 2008....a recurring nightmare that one.

Kevin was a great coach....i will be fascinated to actually watch what he does next year....when the spin must cease and the dirt begins.

[jockreynolds 0]

Cmon you lot - we've all been around the block enough times in this caper to realise when someone is playing the publicity game haven't we?

Sheeds is a beauty - he is drumming up publicity and developing rivalries even before the 'baby giants' have hit the park.

Get sucked into it if you like - its more fun that way - but Sheeds is doing his job and doing it bloody brilliantly in my book

[rpfc 28,736]

Cmon you lot - we've all been around the block enough times in this caper to realise when someone is playing the publicity game haven't we?

Sheeds is a beauty - he is drumming up publicity and developing rivalries even before the 'baby giants' have hit the park.

Get sucked into it if you like - its more fun that way - but Sheeds is doing his job and doing it bloody brilliantly in my book

Er, thanks for your insight...

I think this thread moved onto how crap the Giants will be, and how unfortunate it would be if we chose Sheedy to coach us, than us taking the crank seriously.

As an aside, does Demonland have a no 'Walking Billboards-as-Posters' rule?

Coz, we should...

[Whispering_Jack 30,580]

Cmon you lot - we've all been around the block enough times in this caper to realise when someone is playing the publicity game haven't we?

Sheeds is a beauty - he is drumming up publicity and developing rivalries even before the 'baby giants' have hit the park.

Get sucked into it if you like - its more fun that way - but Sheeds is doing his job and doing it bloody brilliantly in my book

... and that's the very point Jock. We all know that Sheeds is terrific at spruiking but he's well past it as an AFL coach these days.

When I first heard that Sheedy was throwing his hat in the ring for the Melbourne job in the post-Daniher era, I was keen but then I thought about it and, after speaking with a number of Essendon fans (mostly disillusioned) I realised that he'd gone well past his use by date as far as the responsibilities of modern day football (then) was. Today, he's even light years further behind.

It's all pretty much moot but I doubt whether Sheeds would have lasted the four Bailey years and I reckon we would have been in no better shape than today. Probably worse off.

I feel sad for those young players, many of them the cream of our young footballing talent, who are about to embark on their careers at a club that is going nowhere. Some of these kids will end up on the scrapheap because from what I can see, GWS is not going to be a football club as we know it.

[Diablo Deemon 220]

I can't see any GWS has beens making it through a season.

They will be the walking wounded next season soft tissue injuries will be chronic.

I respect Junior he was a great servent but getting caught up in this farce is a cruel mistake.

I give it a minimum of 2 years and a maximum of 5 before they ask and get further concessions.

An NRL obsessed state and league heartland will massicare this farce and I think Grubby might get

Committed for being the lunatic we all suspect.

GWS needed to be immediately relevant to create a Relevancy in their market.

Everything about GWS smells of a junket

[Sir Why You Little 37,120]

That is a very good question, i have wondered about what he would have done and of course there is no answer.

However I often wonder if the years between 2008 and now would have been less successful.

The only answer I have is probably not.

Now you will no doubt inform me of the error of my ways.

So please tell me how would our results been worse?

What would be worse had Sheedy got the job in 2008 O.D. is that the list going into 2012 would be a garage sale compared to what we have now...

For Better..Baliey did some hard yards that Sheeds would never have done...his ego would never allow it.

[Ned 156]

I live in Sydney. Sheedy's stupid comments may make headlines in Victoria, they get little play here. I'll be really interested to see how he goes coaching again. He was brilliant for a long period. But Essendon clearly made the right decision moving him on. I think the fact he employs his son adms avrecruiter suggests the whole operation is a gravy train to him.

[Ned 156]

As a recruiter that should read.

[old dee 23,870]

I am wondering how you determined "Other wise Sheedy might have been better."

If the future is bleak and you believe we cant be worse off than we are currently in 2011 then you will be in your element.

I think I not communicating this well RR.

I am basically agreeing with you.

Just saying the youth better turn out as well as we both hope.

that is all.

Edited November 2, 2011 by old dee

[old dee 23,870]

What would be worse had Sheedy got the job in 2008 O.D. is that the list going into 2012 would be a garage sale compared to what we have now...

For Better..Baliey did some hard yards that Sheeds would never have done...his ego would never allow it.

If the list turns out to be wonderful WYL.

What if half of them are only average?

But whatever what we have is what we have.

So I desperately hope they are as good as you think they are.

[Macca 17,032]

I can't see any GWS has beens making it through a season.

They will be the walking wounded next season soft tissue injuries will be chronic.

I respect Junior he was a great servent but getting caught up in this farce is a cruel mistake.

I give it a minimum of 2 years and a maximum of 5 before they ask and get further concessions.

An NRL obsessed state and league heartland will massicare this farce and I think Grubby might get

Committed for being the lunatic we all suspect.

GWS needed to be immediately relevant to create a Relevancy in their market.

Everything about GWS smells of a junket

I like your point re the extra concessions and the junket aspect of this venture .

The AFL will keep throwing tens of millions to keep it alive - they're obsessed with the Sydney market .

Membership figures and crowd numbers will probably be exaggerated .

Edited November 2, 2011 by Nuggets

[Sir Why You Little 37,120]

If the list turns out to be wonderful WYL.

What if half of them are only average?

But whatever what we have is what we have.

So I desperately hope they are as good as you think they are.

So do i O.D. and i think Neeld & co are a good choice to find out

[Lutz 76]

I like your point re the extra concessions and the junket aspect of this venture .

The AFL will keep throwing tens of millions to keep it alive - they're obsessed with the Sydney market .

Membership figures and crowd numbers will probably be exaggerated .

As opposed to Victorian clubs currently..?

[Macca 17,032]

As opposed to Victorian clubs currently..?

A can of worms perhaps ? GW$ will bring a whole new meaning to that phrase .

[Guest Thomo]

I ask again Thomo...what would you have done between 08-10 if you had Bailey's gig? Given the list as it was and the Budget restraints

2011 was bad, but i give him great credit for the 3 years previous.

I didn't think that the "you couldn't have done better" argument you put forward in the previous thread deserved a serious response. I am a fan on the internet, and he is/was an AFL coach. If that is the basis of your judging of a coach you should set your standards a bit higher.

If you want an answer, I would have developed a game plan that actually has a remote chance of working. I would have come up with more than one option for kick outs. I would have taught players to defend from the front half, not the back. I would have got the players much fitter. If all this was done when the list manager and recruiters were doing their jobs, Melbourne would have been in a much better position to challenge the top teams now than they currently are. Instead you seem to congratulate Bailey on doing nothing more than list management, which others are paid to do.

My understanding was that Bailey in his presentation to the Board stated that the list had to completely rebulit and culture elements like Travis had to go. Bailey was clear what had to be done. It was hardly down to a Board directive if Bailey had put this as his pitch for the job. He was honest to his intention. I further understand that Sheedy was cast out of the process after the first interview because he could articulate anything about the MFC list in the interview process other than "I am Kevin Sheedy and you either want me or you dont". I cant see how MFC could have gone further with Sheedy and glad they didn't.

My take on the process is that the board set out to hire someone to coach during a rebuild. They asked questions such as "what would you do with Travis Johnston" to find the right person who believed in the same plan as they did. Geelong had just won a premiership after a total rebuild, and that is the model that the board wanted to follow. I believe that the board hired Bailey because he fitted in with their idea, not that the idea was his.

Well, if you believe said directive was from those at the club (Bailey would have been apart of that decision, but we move on...) how do you think Sheedy would have taken that?

"Listen Kevin, we want to purge this ageing list and attempt to claim a good draft position in the next couple of years before the expansion clubs take all the picks."

"That's great. How do you guys feel about recruiting Mark Bolton? Oh, you don't want him? That's too bad because I am going to put it out into the press that MArk Bolton has a contract waiting for him."

Hypotheticals are always treacherous but, seriously, I can see Sheedy being an absolute effing disaster. We would be picking up the remnants of some awful deals and clearing out the dead wood he traded for to try and stay competitive after the Daniher years.

Kevin Sheedy is doing the exact opposite of what you claim he would have done at GWS. He has targeted players who are young and will bring long term success. He is not chasing short term victories to stroke his ego, he is building a team for the future, exactly what the MFC board wanted.

I do not think Sheedy was the right person for Melbourne, I actually think his coaching record is extremely overrated, but he is a brilliant marketer, and some of the criticism on here is just plain wrong.

Kevin Sheedy is doing in Sydney exactly what he was hired to do, and the AFL would be very happy with his performance. He has the AFL public hanging on his every word, he is making news, and with the manufactured rivalries will get people to the games next year. Allen, Silvagni and Williams will take care of the list and the development, Sheedy will get the headlines.

I think with the list that they are building and the football department funding from the AFL, GWS are a much greater chance of winning a premiership in the next decade than Melbourne.

[Deeman 1,512]

No.

GWS is doing what it's doing because, unlike the GCS, it can't attract established stars in the 23 to 27 year ago group so it plundered some young players leaving it with a list that will find it hard to achieve success in the short term and lacking in the basis for a proper team build in the medium term.

Time will tell but I have them down for a massive fail.