Can't you see that off-field misdemeanors and on-field perceived attitude/performance are handled by different and separate mechanisms even though one could incidentally impact the other?

OK, firstly, for the record, I was NOT one of those calling for harsher penalties... I was merely thinking out loud as to why those posters may have been thinking along those lines.

Secondly, in Sylvia's case, the events of that morning (and the night before that led up to it) could definitely be construed as relating to his general on-field performances, as he was guilty of approaching the IR contest with a complete disregard for his team mates and the coaching staff, and guilty of acting in a completely unprofessional manner; for a long time people on these forums have been accusing him of a lack of commitment and this just served to reinforce that belief.

If this had just been a case of having a few the night before and then being involved in an accident when he had no other commitments, then fine, it could have been considered a stupid thing to do, but in the wash-up, no harm done... unfortunately in this instance, that wasn't the case.

OK, firstly, for the record, I was NOT one of those calling for harsher penalties... I was merely thinking out loud as to why those posters may have been thinking along those lines.

Secondly, in Sylvia's case, the events of that morning (and the night before that led up to it) could definitely be construed as relating to his general on-field performances, as he was guilty of approaching the IR contest with a complete disregard for his team mates and the coaching staff, and guilty of acting in a completely unprofessional manner; for a long time people on these forums have been accusing him of a lack of commitment and this just served to reinforce that belief.

If this had just been a case of having a few the night before and then being involved in an accident when he had no other commitments, then fine, it could have been considered a stupid thing to do, but in the wash-up, no harm done... unfortunately in this instance, that wasn't the case.

I'm probably not making my point very clearly. And btw I wasn't implying you were one who was calling for extreme penalties.

I don't want to rehash his latest incident. Yes it was dumb even it wasn't one of the more serious kinds of misdemeanor. Yes, it deserves punishment. I would have preferred something more immediate rather than something simmering for nearly six months but that is just a personal pov.

Yes it was training/attitude related in that he was drinking (and presumably not sleeping) the night before IR training (an offense I would estimate is quite common among AFL players especially early in the week). Yes, this should be taken into consideration in his punishment.

But, with regard to his on-field performance/attitude generally this example should be the only example taken into punishment consideration for this specific incident.

I was intimating that a number of posters have been very critical of Sylvia's (perceived) on-field performance/attitude for a number of years especially because of his high drafting position and that in part they may be wanting to "punish" him for that as well as punish him for the incident.

Yes, I know that off-field attitude and on-field attitude can often be correlated but not always. There are plenty of examples which disprove this as there are examples which seem to prove it.

I say punish him for his off-field misbehavior appropriately on the one hand, and on the other hand, work through the coaching department (heavens knows we now have enough of them) to improve his on-field accountability through improving his fitness, tactics, defense, 2nd efforts, etc etc. I hope the coaches work on him heavily and give him hell, but that is a different issue than his recent misdemeanor

Hope that puts my pov better and I haven't just muddied it more.

This kind of stuff is ridiculous. Sylvia is employed to help us win games of football. Not sure what this incident has to do with winning games of football, particularly in 2012

Methodical preparation, discipline to play your role for the team, good judgment under pressure - all apparently unimportant to winning?

Too much hyperbole for me H_T.

It doesn't surprise me, that sort of reaction. Dismissing my point of contention on how light a punishment it is compared to similar serial offenders at other club.

Yet supporters crave a better culture, and a desire for strong leadership.....

Just remember too that it is simplistic to think that there is a a 'one-size-fits-all' remedy to behaviour modification

I wonder whether some of the acrimony and calling for even more punishment is not tainted by things other than off-field misbehaviour such as Colin not living upto some posters expectations with his on-field performances.

Ask anyone, many-a-time I've gone into bat for ol' Col, stating and acknowledging his inconsistency, yet highlighting his finishing and his best football is far better than that of other teammates. So a few would be a little surprised by my stance here, I would think.

Starting the bar high is my remedy for behaviour modification, especially for a repeat/serial offender in Sylvia. I think the club should have been more prudent in this instance and I think they've missed a chance to make him learn more and become a better person.

You refer and dismiss it at as hyperbole. I thought you'd be one for the club making a significant stance for the better.

This kind of stuff is ridiculous. Sylvia is employed to help us win games of football. Not sure what this incident has to do with winning games of football, particularly in 2012

Think bigger picture. Maturity and discipline = trust and cultivates a more harmonious team dynamic. A team full of degenerates would lead to chaos.

This kind of stuff is ridiculous. Sylvia is employed to help us win games of football. Not sure what this incident has to do with winning games of football, particularly in 2012

Neeld: "We spoke with Colin and my message is elite-level programs require elite-level preparation and he didn't do that. That's the message"

For those calling for harsher penalties, not to argue the point, but the club noted that Colin was dropped from the International series. OK, some here may have doubts about how serious that is, but the clubs and players involved take it pretty seriously, and it's at the very least, a fairly public dismissal. Lots of "Sylvia dropped from Aussie squad after Boozy weekend" and "Bad Boy Colin Sylvia axed from International Squad" headlines.

serves him right

For the rest of his career, Sylvia will remain a reminder in the locker room of the past - a reminder to what the MFC used to tolerate and put up with. Hopefully, with the change of culture we are all hoping for, he will be a dinosaur of the past.

For the rest of his career, Sylvia will remain a reminder in the locker room of the past - a reminder to what the MFC used to tolerate and put up with. Hopefully, with the change of culture we are all hoping for, he will be a dinosaur of the past.

I can't understand this....are you saying:

1) Sylvia will be a valued contributor and over the rest of his career we will look back on a watershed moment defining the "New" MFC

or

2) He will be a dinosaur of the past (as opposed to those troublesome dinosaurs of the future)...his career is over (in which case the first phrase..".For the rest of his career" makes no sense)

I didn't get it either- is he trying to say Sylvia is a dinosaur?

What I mean is Sylvias attitude and commitment to the side and his own game hopefully is a relic of a past regime. the "old MFC". With Neeld here now, there will be no tolerating of substandard commitment and behaviour.

Neeld: "We spoke with Colin and my message is elite-level programs require elite-level preparation and he didn't do that. That's the message"

For those calling for harsher penalties, not to argue the point, but the club noted that Colin was dropped from the International series. OK, some here may have doubts about how serious that is, but the clubs and players involved take it pretty seriously, and it's at the very least, a fairly public dismissal. Lots of "Sylvia dropped from Aussie squad after Boozy weekend" and "Bad Boy Colin Sylvia axed from International Squad" headlines.

Further to that I would imagine that Colin has a contract that is performance based and his remuneration is in part based on games played, therefore if he is suspended for a game he doesn't get paid.

Further to that I would imagine that Colin has a contract that is performance based and his remuneration is in part based on games played, therefore if he is suspended for a game he doesn't get paid.

Before its slammed back at me as some form of retort I have no familiarity with either the length or breadth ( as it were ) of Sylvia's contract. What I am aware of is there were seriously uncomfortable wriggling and worming from the ColSyl camp regarding the nature of his impending contract. This did centre on there being performance triggered elements and in all reality why wouldnt any player have them. This was a major sticking point. Given the way the club has handled other's contracts and extension I get the gut feeling it wasnt the MFC that caved.

Neeld: "We spoke with Colin and my message is elite-level programs require elite-level preparation and he didn't do that. That's the message"

Colin would do well to heed these words. Well hed do well to start heeding a lot of things.

Before its slammed back at me as some form of retort I have no familiarity with either the length or breadth ( as it were ) of Sylvia's contract. What I am aware of is there were seriously uncomfortable wriggling and worming from the ColSyl camp regarding the nature of his impending contract. This did centre on there being performance triggered elements and in all reality why wouldnt any player have them. This was a major sticking point. Given the way the club has handled other's contracts and extension I get the gut feeling it wasnt the MFC that caved.

Colin would do well to heed these words. Well hed do well to start heeding a lot of things.

I would imagine that most of the contracts nowadays are based on games played, Bluey finish etc. I think this was one of the problems the players had with the Football Department at the end of last season where some of the senior players felt they were being overlooked when form didn't warrant it and younger players were replacing them.

Well I am celebrating finally we have someone who is not a choir boy!

I am struggling to care on Nov. 1st.

How he plays in Game 2 is all I am concerned about and he is not playing against the Irish so no injuries there.

Not sure what all the fuss is about if it was Feb 1st I could understand all the hand wringing.

How he playes in games 2-22 is what wil linterest me Old. Unfortunately he s not the ilk of say a Wayne Carey who managed to remain in headlines most his career but come the weekend he brought his A game..week in week out. As much as youd lament his non footy side youd admire his efforts once he crossed the whilte line.

Everythiing regarding Col is what he MIGHT bring ...one day...maybe.

Choir Boy hes not. Consistent he's not. Quite frankly hes got not a leg to stand on..yet. .

Actually he does have a certain consistency.... for making poor judgements.

How he playes in games 2-22 is what wil linterest me Old. Unfortunately he s not the ilk of say a Wayne Carey who managed to remain in headlines most his career but come the weekend he brought his A game..week in week out. As much as youd lament his non footy side youd admire his efforts once he crossed the whilte line.

Everythiing regarding Col is what he MIGHT bring ...one day...maybe.

Choir Boy hes not. Consistent he's not. Quite frankly hes got not a leg to stand on..yet. .

Actually he does have a certain consistency.... for making poor judgements.

Tongue was firmly in the cheek BB.

However I am struggling to get exicted about anything to do with AFL on Nov.1st.

oh...my bad...missed that.... T-I-C ..lol..

Having the coach say in passing "I hope this won't be used as an excuse for another poor season. This isn't going to effect your performance right?" could be enough of a response if the aim was to get CS to train/play hard. But from an external standpoint, it would seem like there is no repurcussions to his actions. Personally, the coach saying this would burn a very long and hot fire in my gut all season.

Yes , but you are not CS , and I suspect that such words wouldn't be able to cause a spark , much less light a fire , in Colin's gut . They would be like [CLICHE ALERT ] water off a duck's back.

Neeld: "We spoke with Colin and my message is elite-level programs require elite-level preparation and he didn't do that. That's the message"

For those calling for harsher penalties, not to argue the point, but the club noted that Colin was dropped from the International series. OK, some here may have doubts about how serious that is, but the clubs and players involved take it pretty seriously, and it's at the very least, a fairly public dismissal. Lots of "Sylvia dropped from Aussie squad after Boozy weekend" and "Bad Boy Colin Sylvia axed from International Squad" headlines.

I have somewhat of a deja vu regarding this quote. Didn't Bailey say something along these lines regarding one of Sylvia's indiscretions in the past ? I also recall Junior going to great lengths in mentoring him and trying to correct his ways - and also covered Sylvia's requirement for greater professionalism and preparation; the need for consistency.

No, IMO this needed to shake the foundations on a personal level for Colin and the club and it's players. To go right to the core and show the AFL we "stand" for something. Isn't that what we all want ? But it's not just about showing the AFL, importantly and significantly, it's more about correctly putting in place a direction for our club; laying a foundation for a change in culture. I feel the penalty handed out was nothing of the sort. I think they've missed their opportunity at a most opportune time.

50 hours of road trauma education over the off-season would have an impact on a personal level in Colin's development and a 5 match suspension from Rounds 1-5 in 2012 would remind him and cut deep for his well being, whilst reminding all in sundry that if you want to cross the line in team rules, there is a penalty for both individual and team. It sends a message and demands professionalism for a cohesive unit so all shall be on the same page.

A $5k fine is nothing and one round doesn't hurt individual and club. And as I've stated the "hit and giggle" International Rules absence is chicken feed. Players and clubs say it's important. But if it was, all the stars would be lining up for availability. It's nothing but a chance to add to the wall behind their bar as a talking point, and reminisce about playing for the green & gold - with a round ball...and if they're lucky enough, see the Ireland countryside as well as experience a dozen or so Guiness'.

Been thinking about this and I agree with HT. Should have been a much stiffer penalty.

This isn't going to knock the self-satisfied air out of Sylvia, nor will is strike enough fear into the rest of the playing group.

I think the 1 match suspension is heavier than it would normally be because he has to carry it all summer.

A $5k fine is nothing and one round doesn't hurt individual and club.

So you think the response should hurt the club?

Why?

So you think the response should hurt the club?

Why?

Think of it in medical terms as an antibiotic effect. You have to zap the good and bad bacteria if you want be totally rid of the infection.

The infection in this case is a shitty culture that has comfortably numbed the club for the better part of 47 years and allowed players like Colin Sylvia to float through careers without ever fulfilling their talent.

So you think the response should hurt the club?

Why?

Well, Geelong missing Stevie J for 5 weeks for his indiscretion hurt the club intially didn't it ? But in the long term the club were better (Ref: stronger leadership values; strong culture) off and so too Stevie J's well being and development.