Without a long target we can't play the style we want to play - no matter what it is. You have to have a long get out option otherwise you play predictable football and that;s easy to combat. Look at Collingwood finally using the corridor on Friday - it's a different example but the same concept. . Prendergast appears to be a good recruiter - we can have some faith in Cook or Fitzpatrick coming through to fill that role in future years. But we need a big contested marking threat now so we can drill the way we want to play. If we have faith in our developing keys I think we should look hard at Kosi - he'd be attainable at a reasonable cost in salary and trade and the Saints could be amenable, he's 29 and could play 3 years. He can ruck too.

Kosi v Dawes

http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/compare_players?tid1=113&pid1=200199&year1=2011&tid2=104&pid2=2007037&year2=2011

More marks per game more contested marks per game

Rain down on me ...

What would we have to give up though? I am not a fan of trading until we get closer to working out gaps to take us to next level. Still a few years away. All about roi...

The only issue i have with this is the greater thinking is we wont hit our straps in this opening window for 2-3 years . So just when were getting somewhere this fossil will be on the decline if not on the pile. I cant see the sense personally. Dawes has upside , Kosi only going to go down.

Its tempting to stop gap for the here and now but im inclined to develop someone for the long haul.. jmho

Kosi would just be a list clogger. We are trying to improve our list, not go backwards. Sure we are crying out for a genuine FF, but come on, this is just stupidity. No point getting a KPF just for the sake of getting one.

If a DECENT one isn't available, then draft some. BTW, Kosi is not decent (just to clear it up). I don't want a quick solution, i want one that will provide longevity.

Typical - how about reading the OP?

He's there to provide structure until Cook and Fitzpatrick mature. He take more marks per game than Dawes - is he decent?

Neeld has already said there are 6 gaps in the list that prevent us from structuring up the way he'd like. There is absolutely zero chance of filling those gaps with 6 A graders. If we could fill the deep marking forward gap with a role player, who'd come relatively cheaply, until Cook or Fitzy are ready it would be a massive win for us.

Kosi was actually pretty good in the second half of this year and I think he'd benifit from being the main man deep forward. He seems to worry about getting in Reiwolt's way but with us he'd have liscence to attack the marking contest hard. Could be a win win imo.

At some point the only way you get games into up and comers is to put games into up and comers. Having them wait out til the old bloke has doen his bit may not serve us best in the long run. jmho

  On 27/09/2011 at 07:36, furious d said:

Neeld has already said there are 6 gaps in the list that prevent us from structuring up the way he'd like. There is absolutely zero chance of filling those gaps with 6 A graders. If we could fill the deep marking forward gap with a role player, who'd come relatively cheaply, until Cook or Fitzy are ready it would be a massive win for us.

Kosi was actually pretty good in the second half of this year and I think he'd benifit from being the main man deep forward. He seems to worry about getting in Reiwolt's way but with us he'd have liscence to attack the marking contest hard. Could be a win win imo.

out of curiosity where/when was it noted there were 6 ? cheers

  On 27/09/2011 at 06:42, belzebub59 said:

The only issue i have with this is the greater thinking is we wont hit our straps in this opening window for 2-3 years . So just when were getting somewhere this fossil will be on the decline if not on the pile. I cant see the sense personally. Dawes has upside , Kosi only going to go down.

Its tempting to stop gap for the here and now but im inclined to develop someone for the long haul.. jmho

Thats exactly what we want, a temp who won't cost too much, & won't dominate. We don't want a Star who'll only encourage our Mids to constantly take the easy out, Long to the goal square as a first resort.

We want a get our of jail forward, who'll present the second option to our Mids. So they'll still have to sprint harder to get space to use the ball well, or to look harder to find the best option.

I've always thought that having a dominant forward only encourages a developing midfield to seek the easy options to score. But a reasonable forward means the Mids have to make the best decisions to goal. This forces them to work harder as they develop, and mature into driven engine room players. This is a Must.

This is why IMO, you have to build a list from the Defence first, to the Mids, to the Forwards.

* A temp forward like a Kosi, or a Cornes, or even a White, (as long as they don't cost too much), means we can still pick Mids with early picks.

  On 27/09/2011 at 06:45, Demon Disciple said:

Kosi would just be a list clogger. We are trying to improve our list, not go backwards. Sure we are crying out for a genuine FF, but come on, this is just stupidity. No point getting a KPF just for the sake of getting one.

If a DECENT one isn't available, then draft some. BTW, Kosi is not decent (just to clear it up). I don't want a quick solution, i want one that will provide longevity.

We've already got them. Their not ready yet. Too young.

If you want one now, & we have to start winning Now! Then we need a temp, to offer the target forward, who'll help us straiten Up.

Less Peripheral vision than a racing horse. With all the research that is going into concussions, it would probably be wise for Kosi to hang up the boots...certainly not worth paying more than a 'fair' (see small) salary to.

Probably only useful as a forward and we've got too many unique and complex moving parts in ours, he's just not shown he's smart enough to coexist in such a system. Dawes has shown he can 'play well with others'.

Depends what the price is but I am open to anything at this stage.

Where are the Fev fans?

Seems a little quiet on that front...

I was on the Fev band wagon for a little bit.. jumped off when he spewed in a bin.

  On 27/09/2011 at 08:45, rpfc said:

Depends what the price is but I am open to anything at this stage.

Where are the Fev fans?

Seems a little quiet on that front...

Simmering on the back burner till after the Trading Period,& after the national draft.

Juice over the spud any day.

  On 27/09/2011 at 08:56, SloonieMcFloonieloone said:

I was on the Fev band wagon for a little bit.. jumped off when he spewed in a bin.

What's worse is the band wagon has no bin!

Just awkward for anyone wanting an apple...

Kosi is one of the biggest busts of the last 15 years. He has all the athleticism to be a top AFL big, but he just has no freakin awareness of the game or the players around him. It is like he is playing a different game when he is out there.

Kosi will go down in history as one of the players that "could have been something special"

PASS for me.

I have said it before and Chris Dawes endorsed it.

People love to throw up the "we should go after this bloke with everything" and "the club is being derelict in their duties if they don't get him"...........but

Unless a player truly wants to move, and not only that, has the want and desire to improve and work hard for his new team then they are not worth a pinch of salt.

Dawes doesn't want to go anywhere because of the Collingwood environment.

I bet my ass Kosi is the same.

If as the OP suggests we need to play to a long strong forward target then what is to stop the club using a player that we already have on our list for this purpose until Cook / Fitzpatrick develop?

Why not use Jamar or Martin? Why not even use Fitzy and/or Cook and teach them at the best level how we want to play?

WHAT IS WITH THIS IMPATIENT NEED TO TRADE WHEN WE ARE NOWHERE NEAR A TOP FOUR OR PREMIERSHIP WINDOW???

Back the coach we have to develop the players we have and use the draft process for the big blokes.

If we are to trade, lets get a midfielder instead. But again, find me a QUALITY midfielder who WANTS to leave and that we can provide a suitable trade for???

  On 27/09/2011 at 07:43, belzebub59 said:

out of curiosity where/when was it noted there were 6 ? cheers

Not sure, thought I read it or heard it but had a look and couldn't find it. Must have dreamt it, apologies.

  On 27/09/2011 at 13:39, Grandson of a gun said:

If as the OP suggests we need to play to a long strong forward target then what is to stop the club using a player that we already have on our list for this purpose until Cook / Fitzpatrick develop? Why not use Jamar or Martin? Why not even use Fitzy and/or Cook and teach them at the best level how we want to play? WHAT IS WITH THIS IMPATIENT NEED TO TRADE WHEN WE ARE NOWHERE NEAR A TOP FOUR OR PREMIERSHIP WINDOW???

It's the fact that we're not in our premiership window that actually allows us to do something like this, it's not a prohibitive. We wouldn't be drafting Kozi to be our premiership full forward, we'd be drafting our practice target until the real targets get good enough to be used in that capacity. The point is to fill a gap so the players playing in the guts get used to the idea that they can hoof it forward in times of an emergency and know that there'll be a bloke there who can grab it (this is why those who say they'd prefer Newton have obviously missed the point). The reason you can't use Jamar is because you need him in the ruck (!) and the reason you can't use Martin (when not in the ruck) is because he can't take the big marks yet. The reason you can't use Cook or Fitzpatrick yet is because they're not strong enough or good enough - the system is going to fall down if the option to use can't actually be used in the manner we want.

I'm not necessarily pro-Kozi but I appreciate the logic. It's solving a clearly defined problem - we've got no giant who can be counted on to take a strong contested mark at any time during the game while our homegrown talent develops. We want our midfield to get used to hitting that target when there are no viable leading options so when the window is open, there's nothing new that needs to be learned in that regard. There aren't going to be too many options available to fill this role.

I also don't share your view that Kozi wouldn't move. Dawes was never going to shift for mine - he's a young player whose best footy is ahead of him, playing in a successful team. Kozi might not "want" to move per se, but I expect St Kilda will listen to offers, and ultimately if we make an offer that is attractive to them and they indicate they want him to move on, he'll become a lot easier to convince.

  On 27/09/2011 at 13:39, Grandson of a gun said:

If as the OP suggests we need to play to a long strong forward target then what is to stop the club using a player that we already have on our list for this purpose until Cook / Fitzpatrick develop?

Why not use Jamar or Martin? Why not even use Fitzy and/or Cook and teach them at the best level how we want to play?

Why not?

Cook v Harry Taylor with Scarlett coming over the top. Fitzpatrick v Chris Tarrant with Maxwell coming over the top. That's why not.

  On 27/09/2011 at 22:55, Nasher said:

It's the fact that we're not in our premiership window that actually allows us to do something like this, it's not a prohibitive. We wouldn't be drafting Kozi to be our premiership full forward, we'd be drafting our practice target until the real targets get good enough to be used in that capacity. The point is to fill a gap so the players playing in the guts get used to the idea that they can hoof it forward in times of an emergency and know that there'll be a bloke there who can grab it (this is why those who say they'd prefer Newton have obviously missed the point). The reason you can't use Jamar is because you need him in the ruck (!) and the reason you can't use Martin (when not in the ruck) is because he can't take the big marks yet. The reason you can't use Cook or Fitzpatrick yet is because they're not strong enough or good enough - the system is going to fall down if the option to use can't actually be used in the manner we want.

I'm not necessarily pro-Kozi but I appreciate the logic. It's solving a clearly defined problem - we've got no giant who can be counted on to take a strong contested mark at any time during the game while our homegrown talent develops. We want our midfield to get used to hitting that target when there are no viable leading options so when the window is open, there's nothing new that needs to be learned in that regard. There aren't going to be too many options available to fill this role.

I also don't share your view that Kozi wouldn't move. Dawes was never going to shift for mine - he's a young player whose best footy is ahead of him, playing in a successful team. Kozi might not "want" to move per se, but I expect St Kilda will listen to offers, and ultimately if we make an offer that is attractive to them and they indicate they want him to move on, he'll become a lot easier to convince.

Nasher. Spot on. Well written.

  On 27/09/2011 at 07:36, furious d said:

Neeld has already said there are 6 gaps in the list that prevent us from structuring up the way he'd like. There is absolutely zero chance of filling those gaps with 6 A graders. If we could fill the deep marking forward gap with a role player, who'd come relatively cheaply, until Cook or Fitzy are ready it would be a massive win for us.

Kosi was actually pretty good in the second half of this year and I think he'd benifit from being the main man deep forward. He seems to worry about getting in Reiwolt's way but with us he'd have liscence to attack the marking contest hard. Could be a win win imo.

I was going to howl you down, but I see your point. Every player in the forward line is ALWAYS St Nick - conscious.

Kosi has no footy smarts or peripheral vision. Give him a basic instruction - contest the long ball in, 30 metres out. Not bad.

  Quote

"We focused on four key questions that the coach needed to answer. If the coach isn't doing these things well, you are not going to be challenged as a club," he said. "They were simply having a great understanding of where the game is and where it is going, how he wants his teams to play, that balance between being very competitive now and the expectations of now and where it's heading in the future because you always have to have an eye to the future whichever phase you are in.

"The final one is how he is going to lead, how he is going to set standards, how he is going to drive performance, almost the pure leadership element of it."

Howe Watts Sylvia

Jurrah Green Davey

Howe Watts Sylvia

Jurrah Cook Davey

Howe Watts Sylvia

Jurrah Kosi Davey

  On 27/09/2011 at 22:55, Nasher said:

I'm not necessarily pro-Kozi but I appreciate the logic.

I understand the logic too, but it's still a big no to Koshitski. And although you try to be diplomatic and nice, when it boils down to it, you don't want him either.

The reason people say they'd prefer Newton is (IMO) it is exactly like comparing spuds and spuds. If we want a spud to play Frankenstein's monster and plonk himself in the forward line whilst bumbling and stumbling around, doing his best impression of an Aussie Rules footballer (who has undergone a recent lobotomy)- we already have that.

Even though I want Newton away from the club ASAP, I'd rather give him the role. Why not stick to the NQR'S we have on the list and use our picks for the next best thing as a pose to taking someone else's trash?