Changes for next week

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Typical RobbieF drivel.

Too short sighted and impatient to see that draft picks take a longer to be any good.

Fancy writing off Howe already as being "no star" in his first season of AFL! After single digit games, no less!

The problem is that in recent times, all draft picks are expected to come in and produce in their first year, like Judd.

In past times, and what is reasonable, is that kids would maybe sneak into the side for a few games in their 3rd season.

Brereton said as much on tv today.

Too much is being expected too soon.

They may be able to play and at times be competitive, but the expectation that they will be able to compete consistently, against men, is unrealistic.

Kids at that age simply aren't being played because they can compete - they are being played to expediate their development foremostly, and then as a secondary function they could be capable of competing to a satisfactory level on any given day.

It becomes difficult when you reach a point in your list development, as we have, where you have no choice but to play kids in this situation, and lots of them.

So you reckon he will be an A Grader do you you've seen enough to convince you? I've seen enough of him to say he will be a good ordinary player, nothing more nothing less; that doesn't mean he won't be a handy player but unlike you I don't see star quality there.

From what I've seen of Gysberts he will be a very good player so will Tapscott and Trengove already is. Jack Watts showed his quality right from the start and one pick up and handball in the Darwin game last year could only be done by someone with exceptional skill. Morton would have been a vey good player ten years ago but the style of play now is against him he is just not physical enough. Bennell is a highly skilled player who just doesn't give enough; 15 minutes or so a game is unacceptable. Blease is untried. Grimes struggles to get on the park and has been criticised for his decision making by many on here, I think he is a very good player. Frawley is AA and it shows. Garland has been criticised by many on here, not me, for not putting his body on the line. Jones has dreadful disposal and decision making and seems to always chooses the wrong option. Cook played in the Casey reserves yesterday and wasn't in the best,; now I expect our number 1 draft pick to be at least competitive enough to make Casey firsts and play well. Jurrah refuses to chase, tackle and do any of the team things and that's why he was dropped, now everyone wants him back after calling for is head, go figure.

I'll be interested to see McDonald play he seems to me to be prepared to go to great lengths to further his career so good luck to him. Davis I don't know much about. Jetta has been on the fringe for quite a while and is going to struggle to make it. Gawn is going to take some time to develop but has shown a bit. Nicholson and Evans could be ok I like both of them I don't think they'll be stars but very handy. McNamara has shown he isn't up to it but he has been playing quite well in the middle at Casey so maybe he will get another shot at it some time.

No one expects these kids to stand out in their first year but they must show that certain quality that glimpse that let's you know they will be ok or very good and in some of the ones we have I haven't seen it.

[e25 5]

Just a couple of things RobbieF...

- Howe could be anything. We've not seen enough of him yet to judge him either way, but I don't see why his contested marking ability can't make him as effective as Jack Riewoldt one day. He has the raw tools.

- Bennell is good for 15 mins a game - do you not think he is capable of improving on this?

Making it 20 mins a game, then 25 and so on? He can improve incrementally and will find consistency as he matures and comes to understand the game better. He's still a kid. Only his 3rd season, remember.

I'm not sure if you paid much attention to how Travis Varcoe progressed, but I'd say Bennell is on a similar career trajectory.

- Morton is not incapable of still becoming a very good player.

The reports of his game today were promising and I think he is judged too harshly by people that don't necessarily watch his game closely, but judge him off acts from 2 years ago. He is learning to put his head over the footy and do the hard things.

It's not his fault he has been handed a game in the past without being required to do them.

- Agree on Blease and Grimes.

- Jones is... Jones. But he has made some decent progress over the last year or so.

Not sure he'll ever make enough, though.

- I thought with Cook it'd be fairly obvious that he was dropped due to a crowded forward line in the Casey 1s.

Fevola, Jurrah, Sylvia doesn't leave much room for Cook. And I'm not necessarily looking for him to be named in the best players - that's not the determining factor in his development. Even if he were dropped for form, a skinny 18 year old tall playing against men can be forgiven a spell.

As someone posted somewhere earlier, some decent players have ended up in the VFL reserves at times.

- Jurrah should return once he has shown a commitment to the areas in which he has been deficient.

- Davis plays a lot like Brian Lake (circa 2010, not 2011).

I think you are expecting too much at this early stage, or you just don't see some of the things that others are able to see.

[Adam The God 30,128]

Harsh on Jones I think. At least went hard at the ball today. Agree with Green who was nowhere today. Would maybe give Davey one more week to see if is better for another run, probably at Maric's expense.

God he tries hard. I can never fault his endeavour. Seriously though, I'd love to know how many times he calls for the ball flat footed and gets tackled, makes the wrong decision or cannot complete a basic footballing skill.

[Adam The God 30,128]

...and put Davey into the forward line.

Aaron tried hard but couldn't get near it. I'm quite certain he played the majority of the game in the forwardline. He didn't get it many times, but geez, the times he got it...well, he certainly hasn't lost his superb passing.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,383]

f we had kicked better in the first quarter we could have easily gone into the first break in front.

IMO 75% of the reason we got beaten yesterday was JUDD.

He got Carlton out of trouble so often it was hard to believe.

Agree 100%. Judd is a fantastic footballer. Had he been playing for us, we would have seen a very close game. Kicking poorly for goal in 1st q didn't help our cause and the last two quick Carlton goals( within the space of 50 seconds) spoiled an otherwise excellent Ist Q effort from our boys.

[Adam The God 30,128]

Out: Strauss, Bate

In: Jurrah, Sylvia

Roughie ins: Blease, Mcdonald, Warnock

Roughie outs: Rivers/Garland,

Garland? Really? Were you at yesterday's game? He was about our only defender that could hold his head high. Didn't stop for a second.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Just a couple of things RobbieF...

- Howe could be anything. We've not seen enough of him yet to judge him either way, but I don't see why his contested marking ability can't make him as effective as Jack Riewoldt one day. He has the raw tools.

- Bennell is good for 15 mins a game - do you not think he is capable of improving on this?

Making it 20 mins a game, then 25 and so on? He can improve incrementally and will find consistency as he matures and comes to understand the game better. He's still a kid. Only his 3rd season, remember.

I'm not sure if you paid much attention to how Travis Varcoe progressed, but I'd say Bennell is on a similar career trajectory.

- Morton is not incapable of still becoming a very good player.

The reports of his game today were promising and I think he is judged too harshly by people that don't necessarily watch his game closely, but judge him off acts from 2 years ago. He is learning to put his head over the footy and do the hard things.

It's not his fault he has been handed a game in the past without being required to do them.

- Agree on Blease and Grimes.

- Jones is... Jones. But he has made some decent progress over the last year or so.

Not sure he'll ever make enough, though.

- I thought with Cook it'd be fairly obvious that he was dropped due to a crowded forward line in the Casey 1s.

Fevola, Jurrah, Sylvia doesn't leave much room for Cook. And I'm not necessarily looking for him to be named in the best players - that's not the determining factor in his development. Even if he were dropped for form, a skinny 18 year old tall playing against men can be forgiven a spell.

As someone posted somewhere earlier, some decent players have ended up in the VFL reserves at times.

- Jurrah should return once he has shown a commitment to the areas in which he has been deficient.

- Davis plays a lot like Brian Lake (circa 2010, not 2011).

I think you are expecting too much at this early stage, or you just don't see some of the things that others are able to see.

I've followed Melbourne all my life and I want all these players to succeed but I know a lot won't. Morton was one player I had high hopes for, so much so i donated $100 to the 150 club for each game he played in his first year, but he just hasn't come on. Whether that's because of the coaching, player development or game style played nowadays I don't know, but I would be as happy as a pig in straw to see him turn out an A Grader, at the moment it doesn't seem that way. I've been called a silly old man, senile and several other names lately on here but most of the time those that have abused me haven't actually taken the time to put their view of the players forward. None of them are prepared to tell me why they believe Cook will be a good payer all they can come up with is " it takes time for tall skinny kids to develop" well that's true, but have any of them actually seen anything in him that convinces them he will be the goods? Or is a case of blind faith in the recruiting department and hoping they will get it right?

Scully was taken at number 1 in the draft but at the moment he wouldn't be in the top 4 or 5 and most on here are starting to recognise that. His kicking action is flawed he handballs blindly at times and his set shots for goal are terrible. Trengove certainly is better, Martin is better Fyfe is, Melksham is, possibly Morabito, Bastinac is and even Sam Reid is. How did we select a number one draft pick that has such obvious flaws; did the recruiters get caught up in the Scully Hype? I'm not suggesting that they should have known about Fyfe and Reid, but certainly everyone knew that Martin was a very good player as were Morabito, Melkshamp and Bastinac.

If we don't question the club we drift and that's been the case for the last 47 years. We see problems with the coaching the player development the administration the football department but we don't point any finger at the people that bring the players in to the club.

Edited August 7, 2011 by RobbieF

[beelzebub 23,313]

Careful Robbie...you silly old man...they're collecting wood for your pyre

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but Im certainly with you in wondering what the club saw in some, other than as you suggest the general view of the masses. Not all will turn out but theres been some doosies...and yet some surprises. Ive only had teh opportunity to watch half a casey game this season..( just passing..sorta ) and its always easy with the right coloured glasses to imagine this bloke or that might get somewhere but Im reluctant to cal lthem now as the last I thought to really be a shower ( Maric ) just confounds me to be honest.

As much of a non-fan of Morton He certainly seems to have switched the ON button this week and will ( should) be called up. its going to be interesting to see how he goes withthe bigger faster harder lads of the WCE as compares the flufff of Sandy.

Sylvia will probably get a gig also having done his penance in the magoos....wondewr if its sunk into him yet as to whats really expected of him...i.e 4 qtrs.not 1 or 2. Id seriously like to put it out there as its been a Demon's curse I would question too should he start to put a few together whetherh it was fair dinkum or the ulterior motive of showcasing himself comes to the fore. Just in time for contracts etc. Weve been burnt time and time again by players utilising this ruse.

We'll need Liam, otherwise the goal kicking will be to predictable and easily covered.

I would like to see Todd experiment with a few before years out, not just for its own sake but to give a couple of lads a chance. It wont matter to the outcome.

And speaking of outcomes many , media included, not so long ago would have chalked up the last three games to us. That would be brave now. . Richmond have shown more backbone and GC will provide a contest and must think they have a sniff. Port about the only 'given'

Well lets just hope the familiar grass of the G bodes well.

[old dee 23,781]

I've followed Melbourne all my life and I want all these players to succeed but I know a lot won't. Morton was one player I had high hopes for, so much so i donated $100 to the 150 club for each game he played in his first year, but he just hasn't come on. Whether that's because of the coaching, player development or game style played nowadays I don't know, but I would be as happy as a pig in straw to see him turn out an A Grader, at the moment it doesn't seem that way. I've been called a silly old man, senile and several other names lately on here but most of the time those that have abused me haven't actually taken the time to put their view of the players forward. None of them are prepared to tell me why they believe Cook will be a good payer all they can come up with is " it takes time for tall skinny kids to develop" well that's true, but have any of them actually seen anything in him that convinces them he will be the goods? Or is a case of blind faith in the recruiting department and hoping they will get it right?

Scully was taken at number 1 in the draft but at the moment he wouldn't be in the top 4 or 5 and most on here are starting to recognise that. His kicking action is flawed he handballs blindly at times and his set shots for goal are terrible. Trengove certainly is better, Martin is better Fyfe is, Melksham is, possibly Morabito, Bastinac is and even Sam Reid is. How did we select a number one draft pick that has such obvious flaws; did the recruiters get caught up in the Scully Hype? I'm not suggesting that they should have known about Fyfe and Reid, but certainly everyone knew that Martin was a very good player as were Morabito, Melkshamp and Bastinac.

If we don't question the club we drift and that's been the case for the last 47 years. We see problems with the coaching the player development the administration the football department but we don't point any finger at the people that bring the players in to the club.

Hi robbie hope you are well this morning!

I agree with your basic theme above however I think you are being a little hard on Scully.

He has played very little this year and I am prepared to cut him a little slack at present.

I think he is short of match experience at present, his hand balling on saturday was terrible but at least he got the ball.

Another 4 games will improve that I am sure.

However IMO he has not yet delivered No.1 pick results.

The stupidy of the GWS situation means he is getting offered way above what his value after 2 years.

He will have played 1.3 seasons for IMO modest returns.

Hope he stays but I will not go to the wailing wall if he leaves.

[e25 5]

I've followed Melbourne all my life and I want all these players to succeed but I know a lot won't. Morton was one player I had high hopes for, so much so i donated $100 to the 150 club for each game he played in his first year, but he just hasn't come on. Whether that's because of the coaching, player development or game style played nowadays I don't know, but I would be as happy as a pig in straw to see him turn out an A Grader, at the moment it doesn't seem that way. I've been called a silly old man, senile and several other names lately on here but most of the time those that have abused me haven't actually taken the time to put their view of the players forward. None of them are prepared to tell me why they believe Cook will be a good payer all they can come up with is " it takes time for tall skinny kids to develop" well that's true, but have any of them actually seen anything in him that convinces them he will be the goods? Or is a case of blind faith in the recruiting department and hoping they will get it right?

Scully was taken at number 1 in the draft but at the moment he wouldn't be in the top 4 or 5 and most on here are starting to recognise that. His kicking action is flawed he handballs blindly at times and his set shots for goal are terrible. Trengove certainly is better, Martin is better Fyfe is, Melksham is, possibly Morabito, Bastinac is and even Sam Reid is. How did we select a number one draft pick that has such obvious flaws; did the recruiters get caught up in the Scully Hype? I'm not suggesting that they should have known about Fyfe and Reid, but certainly everyone knew that Martin was a very good player as were Morabito, Melkshamp and Bastinac.

If we don't question the club we drift and that's been the case for the last 47 years. We see problems with the coaching the player development the administration the football department but we don't point any finger at the people that bring the players in to the club.

I wasn't a fan of Cook's selection at first, so I've paid some close attention to try to figure out what I was missing and what BP saw.

- excellent overhead

- a tall 196cm for a KPP, with good wingspan

- great kicking skills, both sides

- often seems to make very good decisions

- quite agile for a man that size

- doesn't seem to wilt from a bit of contact, despite his light frame

- seems to have good engine and cover a bit of ground

- not particularly fast off the mark

- not sure he really has the mongrel in him that we'd like, but I think that can be developed

- can be switched to defense too, but I think he might get beaten on a quick lead

I think when he fills out and has a bit of experience under his belt that he'll be at least the equal of a Chris Dawes.

That works for me.

Scully is judged harshly because he is a number 1 pick, but I think he needs time to build up his body, and he is rusty after so many injury interruptions.

Melksham and Morabito are certainly not better, in my opinion. Nor is Bastinac or Reid.

His kicking hasn't been great at times, but you need to look at the context of him taking those kicks.

I'm all for questioning the club too.

I just often find that my reasoning tends to be along similar lines as the club.

Not always.

I'm not sure pointing fingers does any good.

There are certainly times when you could've pointed fingers at Collingwood or Geelong staff.

[daisycutter 29,604]

Sylvia & Jurrah would stay out of the side for another week.

Green would join them.

Something like...

IN: Blease, Morton, Jetta, Tom McDonald

OUT: Strauss, Tapscott, Bate, Green

reasonable changes. what about bartram and davey? but where do you stop?

but as you said it probably won't happen

[e25 5]

reasonable changes. what about bartram and davey? but where do you stop?

but as you said it probably won't happen

I wasn't happy with Bartram's overall game, and I'm a huge critic of his, but his attack on the ball was there, and at the moment it's about setting a standard.

Those that don't adhere to the non-negotiables get dropped, and when we can't drop everyone, those lucky few that keep their spots are told in no uncertain terms what is lacking from their game, and that they won't keep their spot for long at that rate.

Davey is given latitude for returning from a long injury lay-off.

I heard there may have been a squib from him against Carlton, but I was at the game and didn't notice it.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I wasn't a fan of Cook's selection at first, so I've paid some close attention to try to figure out what I was missing and what BP saw.

- excellent overhead

- a tall 196cm for a KPP, with good wingspan

- great kicking skills, both sides

- often seems to make very good decisions

- quite agile for a man that size

- doesn't seem to wilt from a bit of contact, despite his light frame

- seems to have good engine and cover a bit of ground

- not particularly fast off the mark

- not sure he really has the mongrel in him that we'd like, but I think that can be developed

- can be switched to defense too, but I think he might get beaten on a quick lead

I think when he fills out and has a bit of experience under his belt that he'll be at least the equal of a Chris Dawes.

That works for me.

Scully is judged harshly because he is a number 1 pick, but I think he needs time to build up his body, and he is rusty after so many injury interruptions.

Melksham and Morabito are certainly not better, in my opinion. Nor is Bastinac or Reid.

His kicking hasn't been great at times, but you need to look at the context of him taking those kicks.

I'm all for questioning the club too.

I just often find that my reasoning tends to be along similar lines as the club.

Not always.

I'm not sure pointing fingers does any good.

There are certainly times when you could've pointed fingers at Collingwood or Geelong staff.

You could have been talking about Morton when he first got to the club. Apart from the body contact bit.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Hi robbie hope you are well this morning!

I agree with your basic theme above however I think you are being a little hard on Scully.

He has played very little this year and I am prepared to cut him a little slack at present.

I think he is short of match experience at present, his hand balling on saturday was terrible but at least he got the ball.

Another 4 games will improve that I am sure.

However IMO he has not yet delivered No.1 pick results.

The stupidy of the GWS situation means he is getting offered way above what his value after 2 years.

He will have played 1.3 seasons for IMO modest returns.

Hope he stays but I will not go to the wailing wall if he leaves.

Hi Old Dee it's morning here so I hope you are well too. To be quite honest I'm a bit weary and sick of the war. I understand Scully hasn't played a lot and I know he's only young but I just don't see it, I see a player who has plenty of ability in terms of getting the ball but once he has it his decision making and disposal are poor. You can build a player up in terms of body strength etc but as we've seen with Jones disposal and decision making are different.

This kid is currently worth about half what Trengove and Watts are worth so I'm hoping he'll go and we get a couple of early draft picks for him. Hopefully we can trade them for one of the supposed gun 17 year olds or a good couple of players in the draft. Scully is no longer the "Wonderkid", the last draft had several kids in it who are already better than him, Swallow, Heppell etc.in terms of rankings he would be well down the list of young "supposed" guns.

The latest is O'Meara and if he is as good as is expected we should go al out for him let Scully go pick up Jack Viney and be on our way.

I wonder what Trenners and Watts feel now about Scully, seeing how he is playing and how much he's been offered? Trenners comes out of contract next year if we keep Scully, what do we offer him?

[Grandson of a gun 276]

And what broad sweeping statements are these, care to elaborate? Few facts behind your accusation wouldn't go astray.

Our drafting has been disasterous and Prendergast has done a poor job- comments made by you multiple times.

It is very easy for you to pick out 1 player and say "why didn't we get him" but that is hindsight recruiting. I asked you to produce evidence to support the theory that our drafting has been disasterous and Prendergast has done a poor job. You couldn't.

The latest is O'Meara and if he is as good as is expected we should go al out for him let Scully go pick up Jack Viney and be on our way.

I wonder what Trenners and Watts feel now about Scully, seeing how he is playing and how much he's been offered? Trenners comes out of contract next year if we keep Scully, what do we offer him?

If we do lose Scully then i like you do hope they can find a way to go after O'Meara with one of the compensation picks. But i don't want them to use both as a bankable compensation pick for 2012 onwwards when drafts return to their uncompromised status may come in very handy.

On Trengove, i reckon with that the club is and always has been acutely aware of Trengove and Watts and a few others and will make the contract situation work no matter what happens with Tom.

Back on topic..........

Based on Viney's comments today re the Casey game. It would suggest that he gave Sylvia and Jurrah specific roles to play and regardless of the best on ground they pertformed them to the standard he expected. Whether that means they come back in or not who knows.....

I'll revise my ins and outs to:

Out- Strauss, Bate, Bartram

In- Sylvia, Jurrah, Morton

[M_9 2,081]

I wasn't a fan of Cook's selection at first, so I've paid some close attention to try to figure out what I was missing and what BP saw.

- excellent overhead

- a tall 196cm for a KPP, with good wingspan

- great kicking skills, both sides

- often seems to make very good decisions

- quite agile for a man that size

- doesn't seem to wilt from a bit of contact, despite his light frame

- seems to have good engine and cover a bit of ground

- not particularly fast off the mark

- not sure he really has the mongrel in him that we'd like, but I think that can be developed

- can be switched to defense too, but I think he might get beaten on a quick lead

I liked the look of Cook when I saw him on the TV earlier in the year.

Sadly against Geelong 2 weeks ago he showed very little the few times the ball entered our forward half..

He appeared very conscious of Fevola (not leading into his space etc).

He's listed at 82kg - so he's 5cm taller than Morton and 5 kg lighter. I hope he will fill out unlike Morton who never will.

If he's going to develop it will only happen when Fev leaves.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Our drafting has been disasterous and Prendergast has done a poor job- comments made by you multiple times.

It is very easy for you to pick out 1 player and say "why didn't we get him" but that is hindsight recruiting. I asked you to produce evidence to support the theory that our drafting has been disasterous and Prendergast has done a poor job. You couldn't.

If we do lose Scully then i like you do hope they can find a way to go after O'Meara with one of the compensation picks. But i don't want them to use both as a bankable compensation pick for 2012 onwwards when drafts return to their uncompromised status may come in very handy.

On Trengove, i reckon with that the club is and always has been acutely aware of Trengove and Watts and a few others and will make the contract situation work no matter what happens with Tom.

Back on topic..........

Based on Viney's comments today re the Casey game. It would suggest that he gave Sylvia and Jurrah specific roles to play and regardless of the best on ground they pertformed them to the standard he expected. Whether that means they come back in or not who knows.....

I'll revise my ins and outs to:

Out- Strauss, Bate, Bartram

In- Sylvia, Jurrah, Morton

I've given reasons on here several times why we've recruited poorly, but you don't want to read them or recognise them because it just makes your argument and you look stupid. You can't give me a reason what we should be happy with Cook other than "Buddy played in the Box Hill reserves once" or ""he's young and needs time to grow. You have never given me a reason why you think he'll be a good player in your opinion, young and inexperienced doesn't cut it, so what about you tell me why he will turn out ok?

I gave E25 an explanation of most of the recruits we've picked up all I'm asking you for is one. What about you put up or shut up?

[Nasher 33,607]

I gave E25 an explanation of most of the recruits we've picked up all I'm asking you for is one. What about you put up or shut up?

How does it compare to the entire lists other clubs have recruited? I know your answer might be "I don't follow other clubs I follow Melbourne", but if you're serious about having a crack at Prendergast's performance, then it needs to be compared against the other recruiter's performance and with some baseline set.

Pointing out spuds we picked up with early picks or the "stars" we missed doesn't cut it. It doesn't allow for the fact that not every pick can be perfect because it's not a perfect science. If someone did the analysis (and let's face it, who could be bothered?), what I think we'd see is that every club has a list a mile long of players it missed or picks it used poorly - hence why hindsight recruiting is a fairly useless tool.

Going away from the discussion a bit now: I'd love to know how the clubs actually measure the performance of their recruiting staff. Part of what makes it difficult is how you define a "successful" pick? Simon Godfrey was a PSD pick that went on to play 100 games but clearly wasn't premiership quality - is that "successful"? What about Clint Bartram? Leigh Brown was an early first round draft pick (pick #3) - would anyone have called him a "success" before last year? I also think there has to be some "too early to tell" benefit of the doubt given to all recruiters.

[e25 5]

You could have been talking about Morton when he first got to the club. Apart from the body contact bit.

Except he plays as a KPF, not a wingman, but yes.

I should add:

- I've seen him give good 2nd and 3rd efforts.

- he looks to read the play well, and run to the right spots.

In fact, he seems to have gone downhill in production as Fev has become fitter and more effective.

I think Fev's presence is stalling his development, but I have to admit I haven't paid a hell of a lot of attention to Casey in the last month or so.

Out of interest RobbieF, what would you expect to see in a young KPF at this stage that would convince you that he's up to it?

One thing I'll concede is that while I don't often see eye to eye with you, I've at least come to respect your opinion.

Generally I'm a skeptic and most posters start off without my respect, but you must've done something that earnt it.

[baysidedave 246]

No offence but that sounds a bit like Deck Chairs.

not Maric, I don't think he's got it

[Webber 10,454]

Outs :

*Strauss (poor bugger, shocking injury),

*Tapscott (concussion should be a mandatory week out, and his was a biggy),

*Bate (when will the selectors realise that a 185cm plus forward who can't take an overhead mark shouldn't be getting a gig),

*Scully (turnover king, and should be offloaded for 2 juicy first round draft picks),

*Bartram (kicked into the man on the mark too much for mine, simple stuff, not skilled enough)

Ins :

*Colin Sylvia (gotta be in our best 22)

*Liam Jurrah (likewise, and both should be given a chance to prove what they can do for the new coach after the week of shame),

*Sam Blease (needs another go, didn't get a real shot before, and Nicholson has shown he's up for the job into next year),

*Neville Jetta (many are forgetting he had been MUCH better before he got injured, and was actually providing some grunt in the midfield),

*Tom McDonald (needs a shot on account of his consistency and his height against West Coast)

Sadly, I have no faith in Cale Morton. He tears it up at Casey, comes back to the big leagues, turns the ball over and gets pushed out of the way. Likewise Matty Warnock...nice defensive abilities, but it turns to custard too often when he's got the ball in hand.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Except he plays as a KPF, not a wingman, but yes.

I should add:

- I've seen him give good 2nd and 3rd efforts.

- he looks to read the play well, and run to the right spots.

In fact, he seems to have gone downhill in production as Fev has become fitter and more effective.

I think Fev's presence is stalling his development, but I have to admit I haven't paid a hell of a lot of attention to Casey in the last month or so.

Out of interest RobbieF, what would you expect to see in a young KPF at this stage that would convince you that he's up to it?

One thing I'll concede is that while I don't often see eye to eye with you, I've at least come to respect your opinion.

Generally I'm a skeptic and most posters start off without my respect, but you must've done something that earnt it.

Usually you can see a couple of glimpses of play, they will do something that no one else can do or they'll take a courageous mark that they shouldn't have had the right to take.

They have a presence about them even at a young age.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

I've given reasons on here several times why we've recruited poorly, but you don't want to read them or recognise them because it just makes your argument and you look stupid. You can't give me a reason what we should be happy with Cook other than "Buddy played in the Box Hill reserves once" or ""he's young and needs time to grow. You have never given me a reason why you think he'll be a good player in your opinion, young and inexperienced doesn't cut it, so what about you tell me why he will turn out ok?

I gave E25 an explanation of most of the recruits we've picked up all I'm asking you for is one. What about you put up or shut up?

The reasons I still believe Cook will be good is all the attributes E listed plus the proven big man development path of Frawley, Jamar, Martin and Watts, who all simply took time to develop their bodies to play AFL- a fact you are clearly to stubborn, impatient and or naive to acknowledge!

How does it compare to the entire lists other clubs have recruited? I know your answer might be "I don't follow other clubs I follow Melbourne", but if you're serious about having a crack at Prendergast's performance, then it needs to be compared against the other recruiter's performance and with some baseline set.

Pointing out spuds we picked up with early picks or the "stars" we missed doesn't cut it. It doesn't allow for the fact that not every pick can be perfect because it's not a perfect science. If someone did the analysis (and let's face it, who could be bothered?), what I think we'd see is that every club has a list a mile long of players it missed or picks it used poorly - hence why hindsight recruiting is a fairly useless tool.

Nasher clearly understands my point and poses the same question of you Robbie and you keep avoiding an answer because quite simply you don't have one.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

The reasons I still believe Cook will be good is all the attributes E listed plus the proven big man development path of Frawley, Jamar, Martin and Watts, who all simply took time to develop their bodies to play AFL- a fact you are clearly to stubborn, impatient and or naive to acknowledge!

Nasher clearly understands my point and poses the same question of you Robbie and you keep avoiding an answer because quite simply you don't have one.

Nasher's question is totally different to yours you're clutching at straws now.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

Nasher's question is totally different to yours you're clutching at straws now.

Surely you are not that dense?