Changes for next week

[Demonic Ascent 0]

I think a critical question to any chance at success is whether our recruiting has been poor or whether it is the development of these players once they are drafted that is the issue? Lets face it up until a couple of years ago we had worse facilities than most VFL teams and even some suburban & country league sides. Not only this but it has become apparent that we spend more money on our administration than our football department.

For instance is Simon Buckley such a bad player that he can't get a run in a wooden spoon team or does he have the potential to get a run in a premiership side? The answer evidently is both. Similarly with guys like Kyle Cheney.

This leads me to wonder whether Sylvia, Jones, Morton, Maric, Bate, Dunn, Bennell, Jetta etc are not necessarily bad recruits but just unable to improve their output other than what natural talents they have. Look at a guy like Aaron Davey. Burst onto the scene as a 20 year old rookie in 2004 but hasn't improved since. He plateaued for a while and then actually declined - he has obvious natural skill and talent but we as a club have been unable to harness this and develop him into an A-grade player.

I think player development is a crucial area needing to be addressed at our club and is the reason so many of our draft picks have apparent talent when coming to the club but have careers that go nowhere and end up petering out in the VFL before either disappearing into obscurity as they have languished at the MFC too long to resurrect their careers or for those still relatively young going to other clubs to contribute to teams vying for a flag.

Look at Geelong's recruiting. How would guys like Christensen or Duncan be going at the Demons? I think the development issue is the reason why we seem to have so many players who are too good for the VFL but can't quite crack it in the AFL.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

You talk abount not assuming anything and then YOU start assuming. You are senile RF.

You still have produced nothing to support your argument. Evidence. Perhaps you're a journalist- who needs evidence when mere speculation and my warped opinion will do???

As i said. Since the rebuild started- show me the disaster in our drafting.

Your statement that we drafted talls when we needed mids clearly shows your lack of understanding. Aside from Watts and Gawn we spent two years drafting mids and mid sized players- Strauss, Blease, Scully, Trengove, Tapscott, Gysberts, Bail. We clearly lacked any key forward or back depth after this so that's what we spent 2010 drafting. Where is the disaster?

Many of the same disasterous draft picks you want to wipe are the same ones who've stood up for us this year whilst the senior players have let us down. And unfortunately our 19 and 20 year olds cannot shoulder all the load to carry this team across the line.

Get your head out of your rectum RobbieF. Instead of being a keyboard hero who throws out blanket pessimism and unsupported criticism, put out arguments with some kind of factual support otherwise best you stick your hands in your pockets so you don't embarrass yourself on the keyboard any more...

I may be senile, that comes with age but unfortunately for you when you are born stupid it lasts forever. I've finished trying to explain things to you i don't need the aggro of back and forward insults and that's seems your first line of attack.

[bing181 9,193]

i don't need the aggro of back and forward insults and that's seems your first line of attack.

Any mirrors at your place?

Edited August 7, 2011 by High Tower
Fixed quote tag

[Adzman 2,154]

In - Jurrah, Sylvia, Morton

Out- Strauss, bate, Tappscott

This works for me. If Sylvia and Morton are going we may as well inflate their trade value.

[pitchfork 181]

You can take the RobbieF out of 'ology but looks like you can't take the 'ology out of RobbieF! (I write as a member, fan and poster at 'ology)

RF, the perennial chatboard refugee. Where to next? Will GWS take RF as part of the Morton-Warnock-Bartram-Bate superdeal?

Sorry Robbie. Couldn't help myself.

We'll all get along again when our boys start playing like Demons. I hope we all hope, including you RF, that you're wrong and that this thread is bumped on grand final day 2012!

[titan_uranus 24,974]

And in anotheown favouriter post you said Davey should? ZHe was very ordinsry at best and did less than Dunn, Bate or Maric (Your well known fave)in any of their games this season but you are happy for him to stay. Hmmm.

Dunn plays ok certainly nowhere near the worst. Gets bagged and you want him dropped.

Bate has an average game. Gets bagged and you want him dropped.

MARIC doesn't even play. Gets bagged by you and shouldn't be played etc etc

Davey is definitely one of the worst. Ohh he deserves another chance and needs to be played??

WTF?

Were you drunk when you wrote this? Or am I giving you the benefit of the doubt...

In my attempts to drag a point out of this poorly-written slob, I think what you're trying to say is that I don't like Maric, Bate and Dunn but I favour Davey.

You're partially right about some of that. I do dislike Maric, Bate and Dunn. Immensely. Reason: I don't think any of them are any good, nor ever have been. Maric is terrible in almost every way, Bate is an honest trier (more than can be said for Maric, sadly) but is limited in his ability (severely limited, let's be honest) and Dunn gets praised for kicking 2 goals simply because we didn't kick that many overall, and people are happy to overlook his repeated turnovers up the ground and the fact that he has had umpteen chances to make it as a forward but hasn't.

Davey had a bad game, sure. But Davey, unlike the other three, has shown at AFL level that he can play. He can influence games. He can be consistent.

PS: Bate did not have an 'average' game. He had a shocker.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

You can take the RobbieF out of 'ology but looks like you can't take the 'ology out of RobbieF! (I write as a member, fan and poster at 'ology)

RF, the perennial chatboard refugee. Where to next? Will GWS take RF as part of the Morton-Warnock-Bartram-Bate superdeal?

Sorry Robbie. Couldn't help myself.

We'll all get along again when our boys start playing like Demons. I hope we all hope, including you RF, that you're wrong and that this thread is bumped on grand final day 2012!

It always seems ok if someone has a shot at me but as soon as I respond I'm the bad guy, not that it concerns me all that much it is interesting though. I have an opinion on things football and my opinions don't always follow mainstream but a lot of the time down the track I'm found to be right and no one comes back later to say "sorry for calling you a senile of fool".

I love the footy club and apart from the occasional venture to bigfooty this is the only board I post on, not sure where you get the perennial chatboard refugee. My post count is not all that igh considering the time I've been registered here.

BTW I don't take offence at what you said just interested that's all.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Depends though. Is LJ playing tomorrow at Casey? See how he travels?

He may actually be being rested.

C'mon Striker, your better than that, even if you are green.

LJ is Margerine, spreads softly. Isn't hard, & Isn't a Warrior,,,, Yet,,,, and may never be... I hope we can get him to turn around his approach, and he can learn how to be a real leader like M Long or M Rioli. Or Lionel Rose, RIP...

It's getting close to the time LJ has to Mature, and stepup, as the Leader he wants people to think of him as. Through hard work and Guts.

Colin, I've held hopes for, but it seems he's losing interest in being the playmaker, & wants to be, the part time receiving Dynamo. Tarrant comes to mind... I'm getting the opinion that we cant wait for him to decide to become a leader, but maybe need to be proactive in continuing the search for what we need,,, and for what suits Colin more $$$

Morton: For mine, It's times up! I think he'd better look for a fresh start, to restart his attitude to how he wants to play the game, & I think we can all see that this club has Run out of patience with those not willing to go in hard and make an Impact.

Bennell: 1 more you to make or Beak, young fella... the ball is your court, it's either pretense or Reality.

Maric, has the skills & one day will make it, after he finally wakes up, that he just doesn't work anywhere near hard enough. Teddy bears PicNic is where Adams head is at.

Nicholson's just a baby, just a boy.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Never assume anything only fools do that; you are wrong I've always thought he would be the goods. See i don't assume anything about you.

You think?

Cook is playing with Casey two's so that's bit of a stretch. Morton and Maric; let's see haven't they been tried before, that's right and they, Maric in particular, have failed every time. Probably the best way to bump up their trade value is to not let anyone see them play.

So you want Jurrah back in; can i ask why? Has he done anything since he was dropped to show he should get back in? Oh that's right he hasn't even played yet.

I'd rather be a pessimistic old man than a stupid young one.

Where all fools then RF because in todats society, it's impossible to not make assumptions. The fools you refer to must beleive those assumptions are real concrete evidence. Instead of a guide only.

Are you assuming that everyone else is a fool?

[Pates 9,660]

People calling for Davey to be dropped are kidding themselves. He's just returned from an injury that's kept him out for a long stretch of time and while he looked off the boil in the first half i thought he came into it in the second half and did his classic Davey cutting kicks.

Out: Strauss, Bate, (Tapscott, if no good)

In: Morton, Jurrah, (Sylvia)

I initially had Blease in instead of Morton, but I think a like for like is going to happen here. Morton can play tall, and DOES HAVE THE ABILITY (whether or not he chooses to use it) to be a valuable player. He was in the best for Casey so we should reward form.

Jurrah in is one i'm not sold on, doesn't sound like he played well, but it was a toss up between him and Sylvia, and in the end I felt that it sounded like he was better than Col. I have him replacing Bate as I just don't think Bate is a viable and smart option going forward. He probably wasn't our worst, but I just don't think he should stay.

If Tapscott doesn't get up, Col comes in, I think we need a mature hard body in if Tappy goes out and Sylvia is that.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Pates

[Japaljarri 28]

LJ is Margerine, spreads softly. Isn't hard, & Isn't a Warrior,,,, Yet,,,, and may never be... I hope we can get him to turn around his approach, and he can learn how to be a real leader like M Long or M Rioli. Or Lionel Rose, RIP...

It's getting close to the time LJ has to Mature, and stepup, as the Leader he wants people to think of him as. Through hard work and Guts.

You can talk about this in an on-field football sense.

But you take it too far by saying " a real leader" or "the Leader he wants people to think of him as". As the first player from the deserts of Central Australia he has shown enormous dedication, guts and effort. He is a Leader, to his Warlpiri people here. And to other remote communities where his journey and courage has a real life impact of thousands of remote indigenous Australians. Including his previous on the ground mentoring work here in the Warlpiri homelands. Which saw him awarded Young NT of the Year in 2009. Much more important than anything that will ever happen on a football field.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Japaljarri

[jumbo returns 6,739]

Is Scully....

1. No good?

2. Disinterested?

3. Injured?

For any of the above reasons, he should be dropped this week for Jetta or Bennell.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

It always seems ok if someone has a shot at me but as soon as I respond I'm the bad guy, not that it concerns me all that much it is interesting though. I have an opinion on things football and my opinions don't always follow mainstream but a lot of the time down the track I'm found to be right and no one comes back later to say "sorry for calling you a senile of fool".

I love the footy club and apart from the occasional venture to bigfooty this is the only board I post on, not sure where you get the perennial chatboard refugee. My post count is not all that igh considering the time I've been registered here.

BTW I don't take offence at what you said just interested that's all.

The trouble is Robbie, you make broad sweeping statements that are more often than not ridiculously negative and yet have no factual support or evidence to back up these statements. You like to have your cake and eat it too and that doesn't fly with me. By all means make your opinion known however try and base it on a little factual evidence first. This is the same thing Demonlanders (quite rightly) have been potting the journalists over lately (opinion reporting with no factual basis).

And i sense the reason you don't want to explain yourself further is because even you realised you were perhaps a little too quick and too broad in your criticism.

People calling for Davey to be dropped are kidding themselves. He's just returned from an injury that's kept him out for a long stretch of time and while he looked off the boil in the first half i thought he came into it in the second half and did his classic Davey cutting kicks.

Out: Strauss, Bate, (Tapscott, if no good)

In: Morton, Jurrah, (Sylvia)

I initially had Blease in instead of Morton, but I think a like for like is going to happen here. Morton can play tall, and DOES HAVE THE ABILITY (whether or not he chooses to use it) to be a valuable player. He was in the best for Casey so we should reward form.

Jurrah in is one i'm not sold on, doesn't sound like he played well, but it was a toss up between him and Sylvia, and in the end I felt that it sounded like he was better than Col. I have him replacing Bate as I just don't think Bate is a viable and smart option going forward. He probably wasn't our worst, but I just don't think he should stay.

If Tapscott doesn't get up, Col comes in, I think we need a mature hard body in if Tappy goes out and Sylvia is that.

I agree if Tappy is out then Sylvia is definately in. I also agree that Morton should come in on Casey form for Bate. With Jurrah i actually believe that the best players isn't necessarily the indicator with him. I think it is all down to whatever facet of his game he was required to work on whilst still impacting the scoreboard. We all know what he is capable of at AFL level so i don't expect him at Casey too long.

I am the first to say that i love Bartram's appetite for the contest and hardness however his kicking is still an extreme liability. At best he is 50-50 coming out of defence and on Saturday i counted three separate occasions with little to no pressure where he has either turned it over directly or kicked it out on the full. Unfortunately i don't think we can carry that at the moment, regardless of the shut down job he does. So i say that we give Blease the job for the rest of the season as the small shut down back who has explosive pace and better than Bartram kicking. If he can learn to shut out his opponent then his offensive weapons become so much more valuable. Sorry Clint.

Therefore:

Out: Strauss (keep your chin up), Bate ... Bartram???

In: Morton, Jurrah, Sylvia ... Blease

Edited August 7, 2011 by Grandson of a gun

[old dee 23,781]

Well I have intentional stayed off the site for 24 hours and as a result missed the thread on yesterdays game.

Just for a change I decided to wait 24 hours.

So this tread seems the most likely to give my view.

I was not at the Geelong game ( thank God)

Yesterday I think I saw a team that came out with a lot better attitude than the week before.

If we had kicked better in the first quarter we could have easily gone into the first break in front.

IMO 75% of the reason we got beaten yesterday was JUDD.

He got Carlton out of trouble so often it was hard to believe.

As the game wore on and our fitnes began to wane the result became a white wash.

Once again it was the more experienced players that let us down.

Green, Davey, Jones, Maloney, Bate, Petterd

The younger brigade played well Trengrove, Frawley ( under constant bombadment ), Strauss ( until taken out )Watts, Mckenzie

all tried hard all day.

At this point in 2011 I believe we are a team suffering from poor morale and a serious lack of confidence.

Constant queries about is Scully going and off field fighting has taken its toll.

Our magnificent leader is struggling in his fight for life.

We have sacked our coach with 5 games to go after a terrible thrashing at Geelong

Our average performance is not a patch on last year.

We have the chance in the last three games to get some confidence back

Hopefully over the summer with a new coach and some resolution to the off field problems

we can rejuvernate the spirt of 2010 and with players older we can have a better season.

But for me this year cannot finish quickly enough I am exhausted by 10+ goal losses.

Edited August 7, 2011 by old dee

[old dee 23,781]

Is Scully....

1. No good?

2. Disinterested?

3. Injured?

For any of the above reasons, he should be dropped this week for Jetta or Bennell.

I would say keep playing him.

He has played very little this year and is serious short of game time.

Yesterday he got the ball but seem to want to hand pass to someone under the pump with the resulting turn over.

Game time will get him better.

He is good but not worth the supposed money being offered to him in 2011.

2014 may be a different story.

Keep playing him, make him a good offer and if he chooses to go so be it

He is only one person.

[e25 5]

Typical RobbieF drivel.

Too short sighted and impatient to see that draft picks take a longer to be any good.

Fancy writing off Howe already as being "no star" in his first season of AFL! After single digit games, no less!

The problem is that in recent times, all draft picks are expected to come in and produce in their first year, like Judd.

In past times, and what is reasonable, is that kids would maybe sneak into the side for a few games in their 3rd season.

Brereton said as much on tv today.

Too much is being expected too soon.

They may be able to play and at times be competitive, but the expectation that they will be able to compete consistently, against men, is unrealistic.

Kids at that age simply aren't being played because they can compete - they are being played to expediate their development foremostly, and then as a secondary function they could be capable of competing to a satisfactory level on any given day.

It becomes difficult when you reach a point in your list development, as we have, where you have no choice but to play kids in this situation, and lots of them.

[e25 5]

OUT: Strauss, Tapscott, Bate, Bartram

IN: Morton, Blease, Tom MacDonald, Sylvia

[old dee 23,781]

Typical RobbieF drivel.

Too short sighted and impatient to see that draft picks take a longer to be any good.

Fancy writing off Howe already as being "no star" in his first season of AFL! After single digit games, no less!

The problem is that in recent times, all draft picks are expected to come in and produce in their first year, like Judd.

In past times, and what is reasonable, is that kids would maybe sneak into the side for a few games in their 3rd season.

Brereton said as much on tv today.

Too much is being expected too soon.

They may be able to play and at times be competitive, but the expectation that they will be able to compete consistently, against men, is unrealistic.

Kids at that age simply aren't being played because they can compete - they are being played to expediate their development foremostly, and then as a secondary function they could be capable of competing to a satisfactory level on any given day.

It becomes difficult when you reach a point in your list development, as we have, where you have no choice but to play kids in this situation, and lots of them.

Agree with your last paragraph, IMO it is not the kids who are letting us down it is the seniors.

Our problem is how the hell do we get the kids up to speed if they are in sides getting belted every week.

We need a couple of seasoned players to hold the line while the kids develop.

Cannot see that happening while the likes of Green, Davey, Sylvia, Jones and company put in poor performances every week.

[old dee 23,781]

OUT: Strauss, Tapscott, Bate, Bartram

IN: Morton, Blease, Tom MacDonald, Sylvia

My view is Sylvia is on very thin ice.

However I probably agree with you.

Play him till the end of the year if there is not a dramatic improvement.

Then trade him for as high a draft pick as we can get.

[dee-luded 2,959]

You can talk about this in an on-field football sense.

But you take it too far by saying " a real leader" or "the Leader he wants people to think of him as". As the first player from the deserts of Central Australia he has shown enormous dedication, guts and effort. He is a Leader, to his Warlpiri people here. And to other remote communities where his journey and courage has a real life impact of thousands of remote indigenous Australians. Including his previous on the ground mentoring work here in the Warlpiri homelands. Which saw him awarded Young NT of the Year in 2009. Much more important than anything that will ever happen on a football field.

Ah good, it did get through. I was talking as always in the 'football sense'... My hope is for him to recognise he's wasting his talents & doesn't seem to understand the requirements of a team aspiring to Finals football and Premierships.

IMO he's heading down the road of failure after being on the 2nd AFL list, & I hope he'll take a wake up call, so as to not waste his opportunity for himself & for our Indigenous Australians.

It is my genuine hope that he'll realize what is needed to succeed in a growing Young team, & start up next year if he's with us, to grow his game.

I think you'd realise that he has a Long way to go to become a renowned AFL Indigenous Talent. He's got some high hurdles to get over before he starts to rub shoulders with Rioli, Long, Winmar, Cable, Krakouer, etc.... I want him to cut the crap and get on with realising his gifts.

Edited August 7, 2011 by dee-luded

[e25 5]

My view is Sylvia is on very thin ice.

However I probably agree with you.

Play him till the end of the year if there is not a dramatic improvement.

Then trade him for as high a draft pick as we can get.

I should probably clarify - this is not what I'd do, this is what I'm guessing will happen.

[old dee 23,781]

I should probably clarify - this is not what I'd do, this is what I'm guessing will happen.

What would you do?

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

This may be off the point but was D.Cox injured today??

[Dee Fan 3,247]

The trouble is Robbie, you make broad sweeping statements that are more often than not ridiculously negative and yet have no factual support or evidence to back up these statements. You like to have your cake and eat it too and that doesn't fly with me. By all means make your opinion known however try and base it on a little factual evidence first. This is the same thing Demonlanders (quite rightly) have been potting the journalists over lately (opinion reporting with no factual basis).

And i sense the reason you don't want to explain yourself further is because even you realised you were perhaps a little too quick and too broad in your criticism.

:

Out: Strauss (keep your chin up), Bate ... Bartram???

In: Morton, Jurrah, Sylvia ... Blease

And what broad sweeping statements are these, care to elaborate? Few facts behind your accusation wouldn't go astray.

[e25 5]

What would you do?

Sylvia & Jurrah would stay out of the side for another week.

Green would join them.

Something like...

IN: Blease, Morton, Jetta, Tom McDonald

OUT: Strauss, Tapscott, Bate, Green