You reckon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Pike

Yes. Fitroy after Melbourne then North. As your reference suggested he has had significant off field issues which made his position at all of the clubs difficult and in two cases completely untenable.

While I saw Garry last night and that was easily the most emotional I've ever seen him about the club I missed what happened with The Ox. What happened there?

When the Ox came on to his normal time slot yesterday on SEN they asked how he was and he said that it had been awful. That after the game he had been in a "punch up" with two people from SEN and when asked who they were he refused to say who they were. He said he went home and had an argument with his wife and it was all because of the football. He said that he had tried to call the Club but he had not had a response. Clearly he is still so passionate about the Club and it is killing him (like us) to see what is going on.

The Supporters have already kicked in $5million out of there own pockets to get rid of the debt. You cant keep going to the well.

It would have been good if our CEO had focussed on a viable business plan rather than messing about in the FD.

I would think our great CEO and FD head are root causes of the dysfunctionality. You're out on your planet again 007.

Well at least you have given us an opinion so we know where you stand, rather than just potting from the keyboard!

I think what you say about Schwab is very unfair. He may be rightly accused of meddling in FD affairs, but you know that he has done a heap - wheteher it be the Red and Blueprint, or on the balance sheet, to turn this club around through a viable business plan. I am not saying that the business decisions are not open to scrutiny, but it is simply false to say that Schwab hasn't focused on a sustainable business model.

The Supporters have already kicked in $5million out of there own pockets to get rid of the debt. You cant keep going to the well.

It would have been good if our CEO had focussed on a viable business plan rather than messing about in the FD.

I would think our great CEO and FD head are root causes of the dysfunctionality. You're out on your planet again 007.

Yeah but why did we get into debt in the first place ... we spent more than we made to try and become competitive.

Yip you blame the CEO ... sack him.

Yip you blame the head of the FD ... sack him.

Then what ... if that doesn't fix the problems ... sack the players.

When that doesn't fix the problems ... ??????

Cameron is running a business of AFL football club where he constantly fights a supporter base living in a different era.

However, what do Melbourne supporters want to do ... live off their history. We are Melbourne.

Did South Melbournes history save them? ... Did Fitzroys history save them?

Take your choice what do you want to be called ... The Queensland Bananas - out of Cairns, The Darwin Demons, The Newcastle Demons ... because that's what's starring you in the face.

Wake up man.

The Supporters have already kicked in $5million out of there own pockets

I should add ... Debt Demolition was fantastic ... buying your membership on a yearly basis is fantastic.

However, sadly that's not enough in 2011. Maybe even the penny will drop for a smart bloke like yourself.

I think the real chasm that exists between ideologies is you have a CEO that wants to ( and realises to exist you need to ) drag his club screaming anf fighting into the 21st Century whilst a 'tradition" and a malaise , that passes itself of asa football team sticks rigidly to the ways of the 20th Century.

Some folk want things to happen today, some players seem in a rut of considering tomorrow and if were not careful we'll all be yesrterday !!

Well at least you have given us an opinion so we know where you stand, rather than just potting from the keyboard!

I think what you say about Schwab is very unfair. He may be rightly accused of meddling in FD affairs, but you know that he has done a heap - wheteher it be the Red and Blueprint, or on the balance sheet, to turn this club around through a viable business plan. I am not saying that the business decisions are not open to scrutiny, but it is simply false to say that Schwab hasn't focused on a sustainable business model.

If you cant understand my opinion ... its because you dont want to hear it.

Why does he have to meddle in FD affairs?

He would never have too if we were an $85 million dollar business ... but we are not ... we are a $35 million dollar business and the gap is growing. Unless we turn it around & soon ... kiss your premiership good bye.

If you cant understand my opinion ... its because you dont want to hear it.

Why does he have to meddle in FD affairs?

He would never have too if we were an $85 million dollar business ... but we are not ... we are a $35 million dollar business and the gap is growing. Unless we turn it around & soon ... kiss your premiership good bye.

I was replying to RR.... but OK!

But while you're at it, I actually can't understand what you are saying, or trying to say. I have a headache because I really do try to work out what you're saying!

good to see that everything we members are feeling is being shown by Garry.

sounds like he will go in their as smack some head together and wake up the playing group.

also sounds like he really wants Mick there next year

When there was discussion about whether Scully and players got on with the coach and admin etc, it was a bit harsh of Lyon to say;

"Ya there ta play footy, that's ya job...

...they are paid to play!"

"...there job is to turn up at 2:10 and not allow this sought of thing to happen!"

If players have asked management to put a leash on Schwab and in turn the administrators have sacked Bailey, it doesn't create a sense of worth among the players if the club has ignored they’re concerns and told them to suck it up.

Lyons comments devalue their worth. They’re place in the club is more than just being paid to take the field at 2:10. They wont win games with low morale in a corrupt corporate culture.

If Schwab’s causing them grief, MFC should be hearing them out, not telling them to go lay more tackles because we say so! Decision making shouldn't be compromised because the board feel Schwab’s a valuable corporate asset to the club.

If he upsets the players, he should have been put out on the street before the players started thinking about signing contracts next year.

They wont win games with low morale in a corrupt corporate culture.

Are you referring to the administration ?

Thomas regarding Eade is exactly my line of thinking.

Yeah maybe but I do think you have to take into account resources. We can't simply say that the best coaches are the ones who win premierships because that theory ignores so many factors at a football club. I think with the right people around and with competitive resources, our list has the potential to be much stronger than the Doggies ever were under Eade and they were consistent top 4 performers. In my opinion, Eade would be a solid choice.

I should add ... Debt Demolition was fantastic ... buying your membership on a yearly basis is fantastic.

However, sadly that's not enough in 2011. Maybe even the penny will drop for a smart bloke like yourself.

One of the first thing i would do for the supporters is MOVE THE DEMON SHOP so that we supporters can use it.

Right now it is just not usable for so many people.

After a sleep....What is the situation with the Andrews Report? Was it hidden & why/ or who hid it?

Should it be acted upon?

How is the relationship with our sponsors both now & going forward?

The MFC must find leaders and unite.

If Schwab’s causing them grief, MFC should be hearing them out, not telling them to go lay more tackles because we say so! Decision making shouldn't be compromised because the board feel Schwab’s a valuable corporate asset to the club.

If he upsets the players, he should have been put out on the street before the players started thinking about signing contracts next year.

People need to remember that all we know of what has gone on behind closed doors is rumour and innuendo (sense a theme). The MFC has not confirmed any of these rumours flying about, and some of the charges are so outrrageous that I just cannot believe them.

- Allegedly the MFC had decided to sack Schwab, and then changed their mind, sacking Bailey. This is a pretty outlandish statement, I must say. I have about 1/100th the amount of business experience as Jim Stynes, Don McLardy and their board, but it is plainly obvious that if there is an issue within an organisation that is festering, you remove said issue from the equation assuming there is no other suitable course of action left (mediation etc). So IF this happened, I would assume that it is because they have spoken at length with those concerned and found a solution to the issues that keeps everyone happy. I really struggle to believe this part of the reports flying around because it just makes no sense whatsoever.

- Allegedly the players went to Don McLardy, and then Jim Stynes to voice their concerns last week. How many of you can actually believe that this happened, but their concerns were ignored? I can't.

Schwab is a valuable corporate asset to the MFC, and is extremely passionate about the success of the organisation. I can only assume that if there are issues relating to his position, there has been mediation and they have found a way to appease both sides of the issue, for the good of the club. If I am wrong, then we are all on a road to nowhere, because if the people running our club are so stupid as to change their mind in such a sensational way, then their mission is doomed to failure.

Yeah maybe but I do think you have to take into account resources. We can't simply say that the best coaches are the ones who win premierships because that theory ignores so many factors at a football club. I think with the right people around and with competitive resources, our list has the potential to be much stronger than the Doggies ever were under Eade and they were consistent top 4 performers. In my opinion, Eade would be a solid choice.

Still not convinced. If you look at both his teams (Sydney and then the Bulldogs), there is a distinctly Neale Daniher feel to them. Quite a few front runners and when the going gets tough they go missing. We have to aim high otherwise we're merely settling for second best.

I should add ... Debt Demolition was fantastic ... buying your membership on a yearly basis is fantastic.

However, sadly that's not enough in 2011. Maybe even the penny will drop for a smart bloke like yourself.

With crud served up like MFC have done on and off the field for the past 5 to 50 years, its both unreasonable and untenable for supporters to have to go further than any other supporter does at another club. Its akin to tossing money into a dark well and it wont continue if there is no success. There is a lot of people that have put alot of forelorn hope in Stynes as the Club saviour. And notwithstanding his brave personal battles, its clear there has been a failure of leadership at many levels but it starts and ends with the man at the top.

And please leave out the intellectual condescension remarks. You been regularly shown to short on the fizz when it comes smarts on football...often embarrassingly so. You try to pass yourself with someone with a higher level of insight on matters when its been quite obvious the opposite is the case.

With crud served up like MFC have done on and off the field for the past 5 to 50 years, its both unreasonable and untenable for supporters to have to go further than any other supporter does at another club. Its akin to tossing money into a dark well and it wont continue if there is no success. There is a lot of people that have put alot of forelorn hope in Stynes as the Club saviour. And notwithstanding his brave personal battles, its clear there has been a failure of leadership at many levels but it starts and ends with the man at the top.

And please leave out the intellectual condescension remarks. You been regularly shown to short on the fizz when it comes smarts on football...often embarrassingly so. You try to pass yourself with someone with a higher level of insight on matters when its been quite obvious the opposite is the case.

You just dont get it ... your attitudes will send our club to the depths of oblivion. They are the same attitudes held by so many for the last 50 years. The very reason we are in this problem today. The very reason we got into the Debt in the first place.

Hello ... didn't you get the wake up call this week. Obviously you missed the MEMO.

Wake up man other clubs go way, way further than us. You clearly have never been involved at another club. You are blind.

Then you want to blame the "man at the top" ... who will it be next year? Just some other bloke to BLAME ... look at yourself before you blame others.

hahahaha ... I never pass myself off as anything. Your bias is evident ... you are blind.

Its "unreasonable and untenable" (hehehe) ... no its laziness. Laziness shown in their actions weekly.

But one thing you are right I dont agree with the herd around here. But does that make me wrong????? B)

CS was contacted to our club until 31/10/11, so his contract was going to expire and a new contract had to be agreed upon by the 31/7/11. The club waited until the last day to offer CS a new 1 year contract, to me this is a little alarming. If the club was happy with CS why wasn't this done earlier, something stinks.

Moving forward our great leader is sick he needs his mates to help him out. Good on Gary Lyon but we need other people that can help to get our club back on track to get involved. In all honesty the decisions that are to be made by our club over the next 12 weeks need to be the right ones or our club will be returned to the basket case it was 3 years ago.

Schwab is a valuable corporate asset to the MFC, and is extremely passionate about the success of the organisation. I can only assume that if there are issues relating to his position, there has been mediation and they have found a way to appease both sides of the issue, for the good of the club. If I am wrong, then we are all on a road to nowhere, because if the people running our club are so stupid as to change their mind in such a sensational way, then their mission is doomed to failure.

Who ever the man at the top is according to some its clearly all his fault ... sack them ... they must be incompetent.

Sack the CEO, sack the FD, sack the board, sack the players ... its unreasonable and untenable to ask the supporters to do anything ... no ... they pay their membership that's their only obligation in 2011.

Get with the programme.

...

You dont seem to stand for much or put any contribution of note so I cant see how you could be seen with or with the herd.

And dont be so sanctimonious and two faced on the blame game. You are all for getting stuck into supporters for alleged action or non action then you adopt a shallow pious position into discuss the trading of player saying you never criticise. What dross. From Stynes down to the playing list there has been some terrible failings and there is a consistent lack of leadership at a number of levels.

I am comforted that you think you never pass yourself off as anything. You cant disappoint.

If he upsets the players, he should have been put out on the street before the players started thinking about signing contracts next year.

Exactly which players did he upset - is it the "leaders" Green, Rivers and Jones worried about their future in the "premiership model"?

Exactly which players did he upset - is it the "leaders" Green, Rivers and Jones worried about their future in the "premiership model"?

Ding ding ding!

I doubt the kids are too concerned over the "premiership model", and we're mostly made up of kids.

The tail is trying to wag the dog, in the name of self-preservation.

Who ever the man at the top is according to some its clearly all his fault ... sack them ... they must be incompetent.

Sack the CEO, sack the FD, sack the board, sack the players ... its unreasonable and untenable to ask the supporters to do anything ... no ... they pay their membership that's their only obligation in 2011.

Get with the programme.

Me get with the programme, are you kidding??? I've never come across a poster more all over the place than you hangon, and I am certain there would be plenty lining up to agree. As for your criticism of my post, you obviously didn't understand it. I was not saying sack everybody, because I don't believe it is required, but instead that maybe the reason they didn't is because they know more about the truth of the situation than we do from the rumours that we have heard. If it is true that they changed their minds on a whim then we are [censored], because that would be one of the worst, most juvenile things our board could do.

There is a lot of people that have put alot of forelorn hope in Stynes as the Club saviour. And notwithstanding his brave personal battles, its clear there has been a failure of leadership at many levels but it starts and ends with the man at the top.

Yep Stynes has failed. Good Call.

Debt gone, investments being purchased, record membership, state of the art facilities, a reunited club with the MCC. However because there is some trouble in the football department all this counts for nothing? If we had these same troubles 5 years ago then there would be talk of merger again.

What more can Jimmy do without having to put the boots back on?

We will get a new coach. We will play finals next year. And we will be pushing for a premiership in the next 4 years.

Exactly which players did he upset - is it the "leaders" Green, Rivers and Jones worried about their future in the "premiership model"?

This is what I want to know - were all the players involved/aware of the "leaders" grievances?

I am exhausted with Green, Rivers, Moloney, Davey, Sylvia, and, to a lesser extent, Jones.

And I know this may mean McLardy gets another phone call from Brad Green of Brighton - but I want to see the Leadership Group removed at the end of the season and the under 24 brigade told to choose their leaders for 2012 and beyond.

I don't want to be unreasonable when it comes to our 'senior' or older players, but at same point they are failures as leaders and we must evolve past them.