Round 11 team vs Essendon

[beelzebub 23,359]

I dont think Howe will be too overawed with his debut. . Gawn might take a little whiles longer to settle..

[hardtack 10,537]

It baffles me that even in a season when he would definitely be top 5 in the B&F and is 23yo, people still don't acknowledge Jones as part of the future. No idea what the man has to do to earn some love.

+1

[hardtack 10,537]

I have to agree with you. Prior to this year, I was as far off the Jones bandwagon as you could be, but in the past ten weeks or so, he's been one of our most consistent performers. He's got endurance and strength in spades, and he plays his best footy as the Bruce-like link in the handball chain (with correct handpassing technique to boot). If he can stick to playing netball-type "get and give" footy, then he'll continue to be a good player for us. It's when he tries to bite off more than he can chew that things can go wrong.

I agree entirely. As an interesting comparison, it is interesting to note that Moloney's game has really dropped off without Jamar there to feed the ball to him... yet Chunk keeps piling up the stats with his hard ball gets and to paraphrase what you say, he is consistently one of our best. I would think he is probably currently sitting in our top 3 for the Bluey.

[Roost It 1,434]

I agree entirely. As an interesting comparison, it is interesting to note that Moloney's game has really dropped off without Jamar there to feed the ball to him... yet Chunk keeps piling up the stats with his hard ball gets and to paraphrase what you say, he is consistently one of our best. I would think he is probably currently sitting in our top 3 for the Bluey.

And aren't we travelling well

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Happy enough with the ins. This season has turned into another 'development' year so might as well go all all with the debutants. Only suprise is to see so many young guys given a shot after all the talk about bruise free footy.

You're kidding aren't you?

This season always was another development year.

To believe otherwise was only kidding yourself.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

It baffles me that even in a season when he would definitely be top 5 in the B&F and is 23yo, people still don't acknowledge Jones as part of the future. No idea what the man has to do to earn some love.

In a side that plays like a D grade sidem, a C grade player will look good. There is no doubt that Jones gives his all and leaves little on the track. However as the youth in the side reaches its potential and hopefully MFC is an A grade outfit, how much more improvement is there in Jones to be more than a C grade player that he remains a (an important) part of that future?

DO you wonder why MFC were so late to offer him a further contract in the negotiations last year?

[Akum 2,660]

I agree entirely. As an interesting comparison, it is interesting to note that Moloney's game has really dropped off without Jamar there to feed the ball to him... yet Chunk keeps piling up the stats with his hard ball gets and to paraphrase what you say, he is consistently one of our best. I would think he is probably currently sitting in our top 3 for the Bluey.

I thought Jones was great value a couple of weeks ago (perhaps against Saints, not certain about that) when played off wing or HBF, so that he could avoid the heavy traffic. He won a lot of contested ball, but was able to find a bit of space, and generated a lot of drive with his hard running; his disposal was mostly pretty good too, very good at times. Last week he was back in the middle and struggled to break free of the heavy traffic.

[hardtack 10,537]

And aren't we travelling well

Not the point! You continually rate him as 'C' grade, yet he consistently piles up good stats against quality opposition, his kicking is improving with every game to the point where he is delivering some scintilatingly (new word I think) accurate passes to advantage, and he is completely fearless in his play. He is definitely a part of this team going forward.

Edited June 3, 2011 by hardtack

[Chook 15,013]

And aren't we travelling well

Our poor form isn't Nathan Jones' fault. So what if NJ wouldn't be in line for a B+F at some other club? He's currently one of Melbourne's best performers of the year, and a few of his team-mates should start taking notes.

[Hannabal 4]

Not the point! You continually rate him as 'C' grade, yet he consistently piles up good stats against quality opposition, his kicking is improving with every game to the point where he is delivering some scintilatingly (new word I think) accurate passes to advantage, and he is completely fearless in his play. He is definitely a part of this team going forward.

That's because he is mate. We'd all love him to be a Joel Selwood or Marc Murphy, but he aint.

Is he good enough to get a game ? Sure. Would he get a game at Collingwood or Geelong ? No.

He's an honest toiler that gets the most out of himself and dishes up some serviceable games. I like the guy, but I recognise his limitations. He's C grade most days, but will put in the odd B grade performance and I thank him for it when he does.

Will he ever become a bona fide B grader ? It's not impossible.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Jones is not a C Grader, he is singly the most under-rated player at our club.

Strong, skilled, resilient, hard running ball winners are hard to find, particularly at the MFC. Jones has a tendency to take too much reponsibility upon himself, therefore tries to break the extra tackle, kick to the corridor when it's not on etc. He has kerbed this to a large degree.

He is an attacking player with a mindset that I would dearly love to rub off onto a number of his team-mates. Put some better players around Chunk he will improve, not become obsolete. Think Dane Swan and what he was doing a few years ago.

[Choko 493]

That's because he is mate. We'd all love him to be a Joel Selwood or Marc Murphy, but he aint.

Is he good enough to get a game ? Sure. Would he get a game at Collingwood or Geelong ? No.

He's an honest toiler that gets the most out of himself and dishes up some serviceable games. I like the guy, but I recognise his limitations. He's C grade most days, but will put in the odd B grade performance and I thank him for it when he does.

Will he ever become a bona fide B grader ? It's not impossible.

Last year Mick Malthouse said on SEN that he viewed Jones to be our most important midfielder, and the one you needed to stop the most for his ability in the packs.

Opinions are like [censored]. Everyone has one. Jones isn't a C grader, he's clearly better than that.

[Choko 493]

Statements suggesting he wouldn't get a game at a good club are manifestly wrong. You have no idea if he would get a game at Collingwood. Simon Buckley, a D grader by anyone's reckoning, has been getting games at Collingwood. Jones might or might not get a game as a midfielder at Collingwood, but you never know what Malthouse might do with him.

Edited June 3, 2011 by Choko

[Radar Detector 1,347]

Last year Mick Malthouse said on SEN that he viewed Jones to be our most important midfielder, and the one you needed to stop the most for his ability in the packs.

Opinions are like [censored]. Everyone has one. Jones isn't a C grader, he's clearly better than that.

Agree. This notion that Jones is a C-Grader is complete bollocks. Geelong doen't have a team of Selwoods and Collingwood doesn't have a team of Pendleburys. Just because he isn't an elite mid doesn't mean there is no role for him even in an excellent side. The problem is that because of his body shape, people expect him to be a bash and crash mid where he is actually best utilising his elite running to advantage. Jones would, I think, get a game in almost every other side in the comp on current form.

[Robbie57 2,020]

Jones is not a C Grader, he is singly the most under-rated player at our club.

Strong, skilled, resilient, hard running ball winners are hard to find, particularly at the MFC. Jones has a tendency to take too much reponsibility upon himself, therefor trying to break the extra tackle, kick to the corridor when it's not on etc. He has kerbed this to a large degree.

He is an attacking player with a mindset that I would dearly love to rub off onto a number of his team-mates. Put some better players around Chunk he will improve, not become obsolete. Think Dane Swan and what he was doing a few years ago.

I'm with Yoda on this.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

I'm with Yoda on this.

I reckon (hope) you will see our midfield rise up the ranks as a unit. Imagine how much better Jones, Gysberts, Moloney with a Tom Scully etc running into space for a handball recieve, or having clear targets in the corridor or a functioning forward line. And then the opposition has the issue of which one to watch at the clearances....and then you have the sum of those (one day) strong bodies at the clearances working for you, blocking, tackling etc.

Have a look at recent history at the rises of the successul midfields, as the players mature the midfield rises to A grade as a whole.

[hardtack 10,537]

That's because he is mate. We'd all love him to be a Joel Selwood or Marc Murphy, but he aint.

Is he good enough to get a game ? Sure. Would he get a game at Collingwood or Geelong ? No.

He's an honest toiler that gets the most out of himself and dishes up some serviceable games. I like the guy, but I recognise his limitations. He's C grade most days, but will put in the odd B grade performance and I thank him for it when he does.

Will he ever become a bona fide B grader ? It's not impossible.

This whole Selwood, Murphy argument is so spurious it isn't funny. Those kinds of players are not C, B or A class... they are elite and are very few and far between. Would he get a game at Collingwood or Geelong? Another spurious argument at best as they don't need a Jones... they are already where we want to be. If you had asked that question 4 years ago, then the answer would quite possibly have been a resounding yes.

Just because he isn't as flashy as your Selwoods, Judds or Murphys, he is doing just as important a job as any of them and doing it very well. I would rate him as 'B' class bordering on 'A'; maybe in a struggling team he doesn't look so good, but once we are up and firing, it will be in no small part due to his hard ball gets and his willingness to put his body on the line. As someone else mentioned, he just needs the likes of Scully to be running off him, and he will start to get the recognition he deserves.

[old55 23,559]

Will he ever become a bona fide B grader ? It's not impossible.

His kicking and decision making have improved off a low base. For the type of player he is he barely wins enough contested possessions (av < 10) and he doesn't win enough clearances, lay and stick enough tackles or deliver enough 1%s. He plays like an outside finisher and may your deity of choice help us if that's his role.

[Chook 15,013]

His kicking and decision making have improved off a low base. For the type of player he is he barely wins enough contested possessions (av < 10) and he doesn't win enough clearances, lay and stick enough tackles or deliver enough 1%s. He plays like an outside finisher and may your deity of choice help us if that's his role.

Can you explain why I and others have only recently changed our opinions of him? As recently as last year I would have agreed with you, but could it be that your opinion of Nathan Jones is a little outdated? Is there even a chance that he's improved his game more than you would admit, or more than you realize?

Edited June 3, 2011 by Chook

[Dockett 32 1,239]

All a bit subjective re Jones. Jury still out for me. Would love to see him actually take a game by the scruff of the neck and dominate like Selwood, Judd, Hodge & co., even Maloney, but I've been waiting a while.

[Hannabal 4]

His kicking and decision making have improved off a low base. For the type of player he is he barely wins enough contested possessions (av < 10) and he doesn't win enough clearances, lay and stick enough tackles or deliver enough 1%s. He plays like an outside finisher and may your deity of choice help us if that's his role.

He's not creative by hand or foot, he can't run the lines, he regularly turns the ball over, and is average in the areas you mention.

His fans see an honest mid and they won't have a word said against him. Bully for them. C grade.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

He's not creative by hand or foot, he can't run the lines, he regularly turns the ball over, and is average in the areas you mention.

His fans see an honest mid and they won't have a word said against him. Bully for them. C grade.

Don't agree H, he is one player that consistently breaks tackles clear and at his best is very attacking and creative with his disposal, at his worst his turnover's are often fatal because he nearly always looks to the corridor.

His detractors need to watch the full 120 minutes and keep thier eyes open. I guarantee you that tonight he will on a number of occasions get himself out of a tight space either with strength or sideways movement (or a combination of the 2) and deliver the ball to a team-mate which will result in a scoring opportunity.

I will be watching for it.

[old55 23,559]

Can you explain why I and others have only recently changed our opinions of him? As recently as last year I would have agreed with you, but could it be that your opinion of Nathan Jones is a little outdated? Is there even a chance that he's improved his game more than you would admit, or more than you realize?

He has made progress, I agree. Biggest piece of progress is that he appears to have realised he's not the next Gary Ablett and plays his role within his limitations. Have a look at Pro-Stats - he still needs to work on his contested possessions, tackles, clearances and 1%s. He should be top 3 in all these.

[DeeSpencer 25,687]

He has made progress, I agree. Biggest piece of progress is that he appears to have realised he's not the next Gary Ablett and plays his role within his limitations. Have a look at Pro-Stats - he still needs to work on his contested possessions, tackles, clearances and 1%s. He should be top 3 in all these.

My main problem is that he plays a lot of a game on a wing. Now put him in the middle and he should get more tackles, clearances and contested possession I agree. But from the wing they aren't so easy to get (but he does need to work on it).

So are we continuing with a B grade wingman, who isn't really suited to that position and should be there in the long term? Or is his hardness an advantage over most wingman? He's better than Morton, but probably less talented in that position in the long term.

Or do we put him in the middle and find out maybe he's not as good as Moloney, Syliva, Trengove and co?

Either way credit to Jones for upping his game, but I still think he's a bit of a way off being a good play in a good side.

[Radar Detector 1,347]

He has made progress, I agree. Biggest piece of progress is that he appears to have realised he's not the next Gary Ablett and plays his role within his limitations. Have a look at Pro-Stats - he still needs to work on his contested possessions, tackles, clearances and 1%s. He should be top 3 in all these.

This is where I disagree. It is a mis-conception that he is an inside clearance player because of his body type. His strength is actually his ability to run all day - he is in the fittest couple at the club. He will never be a Judd or even a Watson or Moloney in my view but I'm not sure we will always want him to be. That's what we are crying out for now because he is one of only a couple of bigger bodies in a midfield stacked with babies but in a couple of years this won't be the case.

For Jones to take the next step he needs to work on his defensive game and keep improving his disposal and decision making. Aspirationally, he should be looking to someone like a Cousins or Crawford of a few years back.