Be patient. The bloke is still a work in progress. He is playing at this level not just because Jamar is injured but because he needs to learn to competete at this level, not the level below It will fast track his progress longer term.

I can't comprehend why Stef would draw your heat when senior players are performing so badly week in, week out?

I suppose his turnovers rile me - basic skill errors and poor judgement. I just don't see much there and the clock is ticking...

Your point of coaching may indeed be the major issue of the club at the moment. Loats is the ruck coach whom is just hopeless IMO.

How would you know??

In his 3rd year at MFC and Mark Jamar has gone from fringe to AA ruckman and arguably the tap ruckman around. His development in the past 3 years has been phenomenal.

This year we have had Jake Spencer coming on and dominating VFL before getting injured.

Max Gawn is already showing great promise after a year off with an ACL.

Stefan Martin has made hugh strides and has stepped up greatly. He is on the way to securing the 2nd ruck position in the modern game.

If any assist coach has got the creds up its Loats. Now I dont know if he is a good coach or not and I am stuffed the average football fan can unless there are involved in the inner workings of the Club.

But from a distance Loats could argue some pretty strong points.

This may be so at this current time. But when we release the reins on Gawn then you will see something special.Gawn could even take the mantle of our No1 ruckman in no time. Lastly your points on Cox is totally correct. I'd even say Cox has been thebest ruckman overall for the last decade.

Its great Gawn has come on and shows promise. Who has been his coach? I cant believe the rubbish written on Cox's early career by other posters to merely embellish their own point of view.

I thought big Jeff White was up there.....no?

no.

You know, I really, really want to be proven wrong on this one....

Your wish has come true....

no.

Your wish has come true....

Jeff White, yes

No, not yet (if ever)

Stef did play down forward vs Brisbane in the second ruck role, and I found it noticeable because we had someone who wasn't a small indigenous bloke trying to take pack marks in the forward line. Took me a quarter to work out it was him, was thoroughly impressed.

He's become sensational almost overnight, really.

If only I kept him in my SuperCoach... I was gunnin' for Stef to be my "cash cow" but got rid of him before Round 1. Oops.

He has increased in value by about $200k

If only I kept him in my SuperCoach... I was gunnin' for Stef to be my "cash cow" but got rid of him before Round 1. Oops.

He has increased in value by about $200k

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/7415/newsid/115258/default.aspx

Oy Jumbo..... you have bagged Stef and in particular said that his hitouts have not gone to advantage... Any comment? It's OK to say you were wrong.

....who then went to Collingwood and hardly played a game.

Didn't play any games. Football was not a priority for McLean, which Melbourne obviously knew. He was cleared to the filth for a record price; in those days you could offer money. One of the greatest trades Melbourne has ever done.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/7415/newsid/115258/default.aspx

Oy Jumbo..... you have bagged Stef and in particular said that his hitouts have not gone to advantage... Any comment? It's OK to say you were wrong.

Happy to when I'm proven wrong. Nothing in that article talks about errant kicks, bad decision making, lack of blocking, manning up or running hard to cover a zone.

Happy to when I'm proven wrong. Nothing in that article talks about errant kicks, bad decision making, lack of blocking, manning up or running hard to cover a zone.

I agree wth you point here. I've been happy with Stef's progress this year but he still has a ways to go. Part of me thinks this article is just about desperately trying to highlight some positives amongst the general gloom following last Friday night (and since the capitulation to North, West Coast, hell most of the season really)

Have a footy debate - don't be rude.

What do you base your facts on? Stats? They can be meaningless. 40 hitouts that miss a target? Not good enough.

Bombing it long? Not good enough. Not manning up? Not good enough.

The problem you've got is a total lack of credibility. You have just said that 40 hitouts miss the target. His effective taps are 2nd in the league. OOPS.

The problem you've got is a total lack of credibility. You have just said that 40 hitouts miss the target. His effective taps are 2nd in the league. OOPS.

Now there's a stat to dissapoint jumbo

Last year they were trying to make him a full forward, the year before a backman, the year before he wasn't playing AFL, five years ago he had never played football. I think his progress has been exceptional.

What? Kneeing Kosi in the back of the head isn't intimidating enough for you? I've seen him bolt out of the backline and start a chain of handballs after picking up his own ball quite a few times. Also, it's hard to block for your rovers when you're the one actually taking the ball out of the centre after getting 40 hit-outs per game. I don't think there's anything "cheap" about the games he's been playing. A guy who's not a #1 ruckman being asked to ruck for 90% of the game is definitely earning his pay, and Stefan Martin is progressing every week.

I seem to very rarely agree with you Chook but funnily enough I agree with every word you've said here.

Last year they were trying to make him a full forward, the year before a backman, the year before he wasn't playing AFL, five years ago he had never played football. I think his progress has been exceptional.

I agree, still scope for improvement on defensive aspects as well as "getting dangerous", but essentially, agree. Sometimes lucky breaks happen. As unfortunate as it is that Jamar got injured, Martin's game time in the middle with the other mids (getting a better understanding) and taking on responsiblity as leading ruck has been the silver lining. It's a fast tracking to maturity and gaining confidence.

Same can be said for the Gys with Scully, Trengove, McKenzie being out.

That's twice in two days Thomo we agree, is the full moon out ?

I agree, still scope for improvement on defensive aspects as well as "getting dangerous", but essentially, agree. Sometimes lucky breaks happen. As unfortunate as it is that Jamar got injured, Martin's game time in the middle with the other mids (getting a better understanding) and taking on responsiblity as leading ruck has been the silver lining. It's a fast tracking to maturity and gaining confidence.

Same can be said for the Gys with Scully, Trengove, McKenzie being out.

That's twice in two days Thomo we agree, is the full moon out ?

Indeed, the experience Martin has gained and the progress he's made since being required for 90% ruck duties has been so profound that I almost regret that we will probably bring Gawn in. I don't want to upset the ride on the learning curve; Martin is far and away the best thing to come out of this season to date.

Factor in the unexpectedly fast progress Gawn is making and we may find ourselves in the incredible situation of having an embarrassment of riches in the ruck department. Who'd have picked that at the start of the year?

That's twice in two days Thomo we agree, is the full moon out ?

I'm not sure, but it's making me nervous. I better get myself back to a sack Bailey thread.

The problem you've got is a total lack of credibility. You have just said that 40 hitouts miss the target. His effective taps are 2nd in the league. OOPS.

.....since Round 8 - Read it properly, Choko. I'll refrain from ending my post with a sarcastic flourish. Thanks.

.....since Round 8 - Read it properly, Choko. I'll refrain from ending my post with a sarcastic flourish. Thanks.

Yeah, round 8, aka when he took over the ruck duties full time. Were you expecting stats like that when he was rucking for 5 minutes a quarter as Jamar's understudy?

Indeed, the experience Martin has gained and the progress he's made since being required for 90% ruck duties has been so profound that I almost regret that we will probably bring Gawn in. I don't want to upset the ride on the learning curve; Martin is far and away the best thing to come out of this season to date.

Factor in the unexpectedly fast progress Gawn is making and we may find ourselves in the incredible situation of having an embarrassment of riches in the ruck department. Who'd have picked that at the start of the year?

It's amazing what more responsibility and opportunity can do for a player.

He is completely different to Jamar and that is valuable down the track.

I really think he has taken a massive step and has all but sown up the back-up ruck.

Yeah, round 8, aka when he took over the ruck duties full time. Were you expecting stats like that when he was rucking for 5 minutes a quarter as Jamar's understudy?

I want to see different stats from Stef Martin. Kicking and handball efficiency, blocking, manning up, zoning, hard running. These are the things he can work on as he lacks natural footy skills/smarts.

if we get an abundance of riches in the ruck i'd like to see stef at fullback where i reckon he could play his best football.

if we get an abundance of riches in the ruck i'd like to see stef at fullback where i reckon he could play his best football.

Perhaps - but he needs to hone his defensive skills at Casey.

zoning, manning up- not sure how to do these at once. blocking, well he isn't on his own there. but this is a guy I watched miss a goal from 10m out ina practice game last year. improvement, yes. perfection, no. get off his back.

Perhaps - but he needs to hone his defensive skills at Casey.

Lolz perhaps you think Spencer is a better option right now. Hell I'm tall and unfit and injured but clearly ill be better. I'll play instead of stef.