Slack can be cut, clearly, given the personnel that were out.

But North had personnel out too.

North were 1-5 for a reason.

North were 1-5 because of who they had played. They are just a better football team than Melbourne, with equal injury concerns. They will finish ahead of us this year, and they will deserve to. We are beyond brittle, as evidenced by excuse making through injury. We don't have the ability to suck it up often enough when it counts, and today it counted. The goose of our year is cooked, and it's just sad.

North were 1-5 because of who they had played. They are just a better football team than Melbourne, with equal injury concerns. They will finish ahead of us this year, and they will deserve to. We are beyond brittle, as evidenced by excuse making through injury. We don't have the ability to suck it up often enough when it counts, and today it counted. The goose of our year is cooked, and it's just sad.

North are an average battling side who will never challenge the top sides.

It doesn't say much for us, but the reason the Roos do well against us is because they punish us for basic skill errors(7 goals from midfield errors). Against the top teams, this doesn't happen, which is why they get pasted.

Somehow, we can sometimes raise our level against the better sides, but then produce some absolute garbage against teams at our level or below. It's all mental.

I find myself somewhat puzzled. I got home in time to watch the second half and made an interesting observation. Whenever we moved the ball forward we found ourselves kicking to nothing but North Melbourne players in our forward 50. Then, when they took the ball and bombed it long into their own forward 50, again there was nothing but North players there. WHERE WERE ALL OF OUR PLAYERS? How could it be that we were outnumbered so badly at both ends of the park at the same time?

game plan fkd

Last week we papered over the cracks this week the wall fell down, we are downhill skiers and as weak as [censored] once the pressure is applied and that's the reason Norf beat us, they know it.

Correct. The playing group as a whole are mentally insipid, captain down. This along with the fact that our coaching staff are a joke and the recruiters have picked too many players who simply arent up to AFL..

North were 1-5 because of who they had played. They are just a better football team than Melbourne, with equal injury concerns. They will finish ahead of us this year, and they will deserve to. We are beyond brittle, as evidenced by excuse making through injury. We don't have the ability to suck it up often enough when it counts, and today it counted. The goose of our year is cooked, and it's just sad.

Well said. The excuses make me cringe. There are deeper issues.

Lots of good points here, for now I'll just take one. As a group of players, I think we are pretty good, which is why we do well against sides that don't bother to tag, like Adelaide & even Collingwood. We're just not good as a TEAM, and it's this lack of team structure that clubs with inferior players (who have to do the team things better to cover for the inferiority of their playing group) are able to exploit.

That's why I'm so critical of the coaching - it's the coach whose job it is to turn a bunch of good players into a good team. North & Richmond are examples of inferior group of players making a better team. We won't improve on this sort of display until we play better as a team.

Overrating our list mate.

Can't for the life of me see why Tom Scully would want to stay right now. We are officially a basketcase..

Really feel for Jimma and all his hard work...sadly there's a hell of a lot more work ahead, we haven't even scratched the surface..

Garland getting hurt was probably the worst part of it. Bailey would have subbed him if it was a harder body - but it was Bennell on the bench.

We've been torn asunder by injuries and the Trengove suspension. Now Garland and Bail =( of our best 22, we have 6 and possibly seven (if you include Dunn which I still doubt) missing from next week on.

I've never actually been happy to see a player reported til now - Lynden Dunn, good riddance. I've never been sold on him and probably never will be, and today shows me why.

Honestly, I know I jumped on the Bailey train after the WCE loss, but I don't for this. This was players unsure of themselves, players who either just aren't good enough being thrown in (Jetta) or too full of themselves to actually work hard (Bennell).

I would love never to see Jetta play a game for the MFC.

No your wrong about Jetta, but he's gonna be a slow developer. He's improved a lot over summer, but he's still at this stage, in between Casey and the Dees. He will play as an inside mid, but is still too small just yet, to play his true role.

I agree re Dunn, he's also improved, but you can improve your skills and belief, and your body size, but not your character. I'm still not sold on Dunn as a Mid/Flanker, and He Is Not a key posi Player.

Bennell could be anything,,, or nothing. It's up to him to get harder.

Glad I didn't stay home and watch it. No where near a good enough side yet and we have a long way to go. The idea of us even making finals this year is ridiculous. I seriously cannot see us even topping our 8.5 wins last year. A tough few weeks ahead, and no doubt we'll be 3-6-1 once we've played Essendon. We have some great players our but to watch Richmond and Essendon improve so much on last year why we continue to disappoint (with the occasional tease) is heartbreaking. I do hope we win a premiership in the next 5 or so years with this list, but I am not sure if Melbourne is the type of club (culture wise) that can do it.

I am not sure if Melbourne is the type of club (culture wise) that can do it.

That is Jimmy's and the clubs biggest challenge. Geelong were perennial under performers up until five years ago. Hopefully we can follow their lead.

North are an average battling side who will never challenge the top sides.

It doesn't say much for us, but the reason the Roos do well against us is because they punish us for basic skill errors(7 goals from midfield errors). Against the top teams, this doesn't happen, which is why they get pasted.

Somehow, we can sometimes raise our level against the better sides, but then produce some absolute garbage against teams at our level or below. It's all mental.

All last week I was saying people under estimate north.

They started the season with a lot of injuries and have played both top sides, been to WA twice loosing to WC by 3 points ( how much did we lose by again?)and Freo by a couple of goals.

But otherwise I agree we gifted the Roos 5 goals by my count.

No your wrong about Jetta, but he's gonna be a slow developer. He's improved a lot over summer, but he's still at this stage, in between Casey and the Dees. He will play as an inside mid, but is still too small just yet, to play his true role.

I agree re Dunn, he's also improved, but you can improve your skills and belief, and your body size, but not your character. I'm still not sold on Dunn as a Mid/Flanker, and He Is Not a key posi Player.

Bennell could be anything,,, or nothing. It's up to him to get harder.

WYL are you watching here comes a definite bash!

Most of the time "or Nothing"

Correct. The playing group as a whole are mentally insipid, captain down. This along with the fact that our coaching staff are a joke and the recruiters have picked too many players who simply arent up to AFL..

I said a couple of weeks ago that we had recruited too many soft players and today proved it beyond doubt, there were plenty of short steps taken today and some of the lack of efforts were embarrassing. It's all too easy to arrive at the contest that little bit late and miss out on the hard suff and it seems to stem from the top down. That's no slight on Green, who was woeful today and couldn't inspire a pyromaniac to light a match, but it's all of the senior players who have been doing it for years and passing on their bad habits and lack of desire to the new kids as they join the club.

I have said it before and i'll say it again there's a disease that has permeated its way through the club for near on 50 years and it will never be eliminated until we rid ourselves of the weakness and softness that we have accepted forever. There are some players that should never be given chance to wear our jumper again they should be banished at the end of the year through trade or delisting. I don't care if we have to play kids without a great deal of ability i prefer to see them bust a gut than to see some of the weak p#@$&* that are currently disgracing our club.

I don't care what Titan Uranis and some of the others think, we have had the opportunity to set ourselves up with our plethora of high draft picks but we've blown it by going for soft, skilled footballers instead of tough win at all costs hard nuts. Richmond have a much better group of kids than us and it wouldn't surprise me if they made the finals this year whilst we look on and talk shyte about how many players we have that have played between 10 and 50 games compared to club x who just beat us by ten goals.

We were pathetic today when the opposition put us under pressure and as Leigh Matthews said we don't appear to have the athleticism to keep up with the modern game.

Ive been thinking how to sum up today and the year so far.

So I thought rather than focusing on our wins. Look at our losses, which have been very poor, with no fight.

Our losses show that we are as bad as ever and we haven't really gone forward, which is a worry for Dean Bailey.

Its a case of same old stuff and it sucks.

It was bad today, like the hawthorn game we showed that when we are on that we can play very very good football. The only problem is in both todays game and the game against Hawthorn we played 1 quarter of good football and 3 quarters of our bad football. I've posted this a couple of times this very our good is better than last year but our bad football is the same. We can't stop teams scoring against us when we go through our bad patch.

I've never been a Bailey basher as I understand what he had to do and is doing with our list, but the fact that he hasn't been able to stop teams high scoring against us in four years, I'm starting to jump off the fence. We can't keep putting up with these bad peformances, it's not about winning that will come but we are still not competitive enough when things aren't going our way. We have heard this for 4 years and as stated above with the talent on our list our good footy is better but our ability to stay in the game when we are challenged remains the same as 4 years ago.

WYL are you watching here comes a definite bash!

Most of the time "or Nothing"

Too early to call on Bennell or Jetta OD, they are 2 examples of players who need great leadership around them.

Too early to call on Bennell or Jetta OD, they are 2 examples of players who need great leadership around them.

Thanks WYL I thought everyone was hiding on the subject of JB.

At least you have the courage to comment.

Sorry I just do not see it, I concentrated on him today and he did nothing much.

He may play well if he was at a better team but at the Dees you have to make the running.

I think Jetta was ok today but made two bad mistakes that led to turn overs and goals when we should have been streaming forward.

However i will forgive him as at least he goes and gets the ball and he shows no fear.

I find myself somewhat puzzled. I got home in time to watch the second half and made an interesting observation. Whenever we moved the ball forward we found ourselves kicking to nothing but North Melbourne players in our forward 50. Then, when they took the ball and bombed it long into their own forward 50, again there was nothing but North players there. WHERE WERE ALL OF OUR PLAYERS? How could it be that we were outnumbered so badly at both ends of the park at the same time?

Lack of work ethic.

It's a bit of a chicken/egg thing with me, I can't decide whether we drop our heads when the going gets tough, or whether the going gets tough because we've already dropped our heads. A bit of both probably, but the fact remains, when we lose, we don't look like we're giving 100%.

I thought we lost today for two main reasons.

- 3-4 of our senior players contributed very little

- Injuries have forced us to play guys are who are not yet ready to carry the load

added to that we lost two good players to injury in the first half.

I also think Jones was hurt in the first quarter.

I did like Stef Martin I think today was his best game for the MFC

made some arrors but went hard at it all day,and did some nice things.

I have not been a Watts fan but I thought today he played well in defence.

Do we have a CHB on our hands?

Good effort over the last 3 weeks, if Green had played as well I would be happy.

Lack of work ethic.

It's a bit of a chicken/egg thing with me, I can't decide whether we drop our heads when the going gets tough, or whether the going gets tough because we've already dropped our heads. A bit of both probably, but the fact remains, when we lose, we don't look like we're giving 100%.

We don't look like we're giving 100% ? We don't look like we're giving 10%.

Even Frawley said on MMM that we gave up, how many % is gave up?

I said a couple of weeks ago that we had recruited too many soft players and today proved it beyond doubt, there were plenty of short steps taken today and some of the lack of efforts were embarrassing. It's all too easy to arrive at the contest that little bit late and miss out on the hard suff and it seems to stem from the top down. That's no slight on Green, who was woeful today and couldn't inspire a pyromaniac to light a match, but it's all of the senior players who have been doing it for years and passing on their bad habits and lack of desire to the new kids as they join the club.

I have said it before and i'll say it again there's a disease that has permeated its way through the club for near on 50 years and it will never be eliminated until we rid ourselves of the weakness and softness that we have accepted forever. There are some players that should never be given chance to wear our jumper again they should be banished at the end of the year through trade or delisting. I don't care if we have to play kids without a great deal of ability i prefer to see them bust a gut than to see some of the weak p#@$&* that are currently disgracing our club.

I don't care what Titan Uranis and some of the others think, we have had the opportunity to set ourselves up with our plethora of high draft picks but we've blown it by going for soft, skilled footballers instead of tough win at all costs hard nuts. Richmond have a much better group of kids than us and it wouldn't surprise me if they made the finals this year whilst we look on and talk shyte about how many players we have that have played between 10 and 50 games compared to club x who just beat us by ten goals.

We were pathetic today when the opposition put us under pressure and as Leigh Matthews said we don't appear to have the athleticism to keep up with the modern game.

So you'd like a team full of Joneses, Bates, Dunns, Bartrams and Moloneys? Sure, we'd be stronger and tougher, but we would turn the ball over umpteen times, then you'd complain about how our recruiters had the option to go for the talented players but went for grunt instead. In fact, that's exactly what many thought in 2007/8, when Daniher's legacy was being felt. We'd taken a whole bunch of strong players (Jones, Bate, Dunn, Bartram, McLean; traded for Pickett and Moloney). We ended up being slow and unskilled.

Turns out, Robbie, you need a mix of brutes and skillful players. What we need more than anything is for our older players to stand up. Having Green, Davey, Sylvia and Jones flit in and out of matches, turning the ball over, not getting involved enough in the play, and not providing leadership, will mean we will always struggle.

So you'd like a team full of Joneses, Bates, Dunns, Bartrams and Moloneys? Sure, we'd be stronger and tougher, but we would turn the ball over umpteen times, then you'd complain about how our recruiters had the option to go for the talented players but went for grunt instead. In fact, that's exactly what many thought in 2007/8, when Daniher's legacy was being felt. We'd taken a whole bunch of strong players (Jones, Bate, Dunn, Bartram, McLean; traded for Pickett and Moloney). We ended up being slow and unskilled.

Turns out, Robbie, you need a mix of brutes and skillful players. What we need more than anything is for our older players to stand up. Having Green, Davey, Sylvia and Jones flit in and out of matches, turning the ball over, not getting involved enough in the play, and not providing leadership, will mean we will always struggle.

You really do miss the point don't you?

Read your second paragraph and it may give you a clue. That's the problem, get it, the players you mention are the ones who continually let us down.

And who ever said that Bate and Dunn are hard nuts, as you say they are strong, but no one could ever accuse them of being "hard nuts".

So you'd like a team full of Joneses, Bates, Dunns, Bartrams and Moloneys? Sure, we'd be stronger and tougher, but we would turn the ball over umpteen times, then you'd complain about how our recruiters had the option to go for the talented players but went for grunt instead. In fact, that's exactly what many thought in 2007/8, when Daniher's legacy was being felt. We'd taken a whole bunch of strong players (Jones, Bate, Dunn, Bartram, McLean; traded for Pickett and Moloney). We ended up being slow and unskilled.

Turns out, Robbie, you need a mix of brutes and skillful players. What we need more than anything is for our older players to stand up. Having Green, Davey, Sylvia and Jones flit in and out of matches, turning the ball over, not getting involved enough in the play, and not providing leadership, will mean we will always struggle.

Do you ever actually attend a match?

Have you not seen the same players over the last 10 years doing the same thing every time the chips are down? If you go to a game soon have a long hard look at the players we have and see how many of them are soft and ask yourself the question; how did we end up with so many players that have no heart for the rough stuff? Ask yourself if you would be able to rely on these players to win a grand final or would they fold like a deck of cards like we did in 2000?

Then ask yourself how many of these soft players were recruited by our current recruiting department and how in god's name did this happen? Is it coincidence, bad luck or are they just hopeless and incapable of selecting the right players to take us all the way even tough they had a chance to select the best in the land.

I know you don't have high standards but even you must be a bit concerned about this.

This week can the Dees coaching staff think a bit laterally and train @ a smaller ground. Forget MCG sized Casey - find a small ground for this week so we can learn to play with less spread out of the backline.

Or if we can't do that remark the lines @ Olympic Park so the ground they practise on is smaller...something ...ANYTHING!!!!

Subiaco, Skilled and the Dome...all thinner grounds.