Further food for thought but in the Jimma vein of things. Bailey was not a Stynes board appointment. Yes they've extended his tenure for this year but there's no new contract to speak of. I'd be pulling my finger out if I were a Melbourne Coach !

  On 05/04/2011 at 04:16, High Tower said:

That's reasonable to suggest H. But it doesn't excuse the capitulation that took place on field in 20 mins of play. That's when player(s) or leaders can have an influence and halt a roll on. Or make a statement. Or fight. A coach could bark the instructions to the runner to flood or change positions, but it's the leaders who should lead by example in that situation to alter the play; be creative. All shoulders dropped, no one stepped up and gave a yelp.

Spot On HT, during the 3rd Q i didn't notice Brad Green at all. That was his time to get the players up, whatever way he finds the most effective.

I worry about Brad's Leadership Qualities, some have it some do not. Brad to me is a quiet man who gives his all, but is he the guy who builds up the morale of the team??? At this stage i am worried-as i know at this point in time we have little other choices.

Gary Ablett Jnr. Fantastic Footballer, all the skills and balance. But as a Captain he will be useless i believe. Gary plays for Gary on Gary's terms.

  On 05/04/2011 at 03:45, Weedster said:

Utter crap - no coach gets a clean sheet - he has has an input into four drafts now - this team has his fingerprints all over it

It took him 4 drafts to get a team that he wanted. No new coach will walk in and have everything that they expect, they will make thir own changes. it's just some coaches are lucky enough to be in a position to be able to make those changes in 12 months. Bailey had to wait 4 years.

Bailey keeps saying we need to win more quarters, we need to be more competitive for longer parts of the game - well so far this year we have not improved at these two things - we have gotten worse!

I think that Bailey will have certain KPI's that he must reach this year to get a contract extension and to date he would not of reached them.

We have alot of improvement in us that is one positive - some simple things that we can improve on are:

Intensity - The players look laconic and second to the ball - Tackles should be minimum 1 tackle each - each QTR - thats a minimum of 84 tackles a game.

Structure - We look lost when cant get the ball forward because are forwards are up around the half back line - THIS GAME PLAN does not work we saw that when Carlton had Dennis Pagan try and introduce Pagans Paddock - Our players keep getting sucked into the play. Also, when we try the forward press our players do not implement it correctly and the opposition run the ball out to easily.

Centre Clearances - We get our fair share of first touch after a centre bouce - problem is we fumble and turn it over before we clear it and they then get centre clearances which puts our backs under pressure.

Shut Down Danger Players - From the very first minute it was clear that Cyril Rioli was running hot in the midfield - but we didnt shut him down throughout the game for long enough. the players must hit him hard and tackle him hard to put him off his game.

We need our best players starting the game to get off to a good start - too many times we have our players start poorly - this is clearly a tactical flaw and and a lack of motivation by the players. If collingwood started games like we do Mick would tear them to bits at qtr time.

Skill Errors - we still make to many skill errors which result in opposition scores - players need to be punished for continual skill errors - Jack Watts yesterday made 3 in a row - that is unacceptable at the lowest level of footy let alone AFL

I like forward to seeing improvements in the coming weeks and we can easily turnaround this poor start to the season simply by the players attitude being right before the game - during the game and after the game to get themselves ready for the next contest.

We also require a new fitness team to get our players to an elite fitness level - fitter than the 16 other clubs!!

That is ALL

  On 05/04/2011 at 04:26, why you little said:

Spot On HT, during the 3rd Q i didn't notice Brad Green at all. That was his time to get the players up, whatever way he finds the most effective.

I worry about Brad's Leadership Qualities, some have it some do not. Brad to me is a quiet man who gives his all, but is he the guy who builds up the morale of the team??? At this stage i am worried-as i know at this point in time we have little other choices.

Gary Ablett Jnr. Fantastic Footballer, all the skills and balance. But as a Captain he will be useless i believe. Gary plays for Gary on Gary's terms.

He's a good player and a stand in captain. No offence to Brad but one of Scully, Trengove, Viney, or Grimes is the next actual Captain.

  On 05/04/2011 at 04:24, RobbieF said:

I pretty much agree with most of what you've said there except I don't think we have a game plan at all let alone a second and third one.

The form (?) we displayed on Sunday was a continuation of the shyte we served up in the NAB challenge against Essendon and Brisbane, when I stated my concern then I was howled down by the very ones that are defending the team now. Get your head out of the clouds guys we are nowhere near as good as we think we are and some of the recruits we have picked up are simply not up to it.

We've had an era of softness with the likes of Bruce and Yze etc and now all we've done is replace them with new softies like Bennell, Morton and sorry to say it Watts, the problem is there are too many there in self preservation mode and not enough willing to do whatever to win the ball and the game.

The Coach has to take the blame for the lack of an apparent game plan and the FD has to take the blame for recruiting nice boys instead of tough hard win at all costs footballers. We have had the opportunity to pick the best players available and we have stuffed it up, we have picked up three beanpoles as our first pick in the last four drafts, Morton, Watts and now Cook. It would appear that Morton will always be skinny Watts has and will put on more weight and the jury is out on Cook. We need midfielders not more shinny potential KPP’s. I was happier with our Rookie selections than our National Draft picks.

The capitulation by the players on Sunday was compounded by the lack of initiative shown by the coach; we did the same thing over and over and repeated the same mistakes again and again. We kept kicking the ball out to a pack on the MCC wing and it kept coming straight back in because we only had Jamar out there to mark it. We didn’t try to break it up by doing something different; they played like robots without any football nouse at all. Bailey said he didn’t see it coming well he must have been down on the boundary just prior to the end of the second quarter because with 5 minutes to go in the quarter Flash held up the ball and signaled tempo football because it appeared to me the players were stuffed, not fit. Hawthorn were happy to play that game they wanted to get in for the half time break and limit our lead so they just kicked it to themselves as well.

As I said before the start of the season I am having flashbacks to 2007 where we had hopes of doing well before the season but it all came crashing down around our ears in the first quarter of the first game, this year it’s taken until the seventh quarter.

As the end of last season and contrary to popular opinion I argued that we should go for more midfielders in the draft. I even suggested we go for Robert Eddy as a bargain basement cheapie because he's got genuine St Kilda hardness pedigree that may infect the others.

And the game plan smacks of arrogance to me and lacks respect for opposition strengths. Only seems to work when the opposition is off the boil.

  On 05/04/2011 at 04:31, Bruce Almighty said:

Bailey keeps saying we need to win more quarters, we need to be more competitive for longer parts of the game - well so far this year we have not improved at these two things - we have gotten worse!

I think that Bailey will have certain KPI's that he must reach this year to get a contract extension and to date he would not of reached them.

We have alot of improvement in us that is one positive - some simple things that we can improve on are:

Intensity - The players look laconic and second to the ball - Tackles should be minimum 1 tackle each - each QTR - thats a minimum of 84 tackles a game.

Structure - We look lost when cant get the ball forward because are forwards are up around the half back line - THIS GAME PLAN does not work we saw that when Carlton had Dennis Pagan try and introduce Pagans Paddock - Our players keep getting sucked into the play. Also, when we try the forward press our players do not implement it correctly and the opposition run the ball out to easily.

Centre Clearances - We get our fair share of first touch after a centre bouce - problem is we fumble and turn it over before we clear it and they then get centre clearances which puts our backs under pressure.

Shut Down Danger Players - From the very first minute it was clear that Cyril Rioli was running hot in the midfield - but we didnt shut him down throughout the game for long enough. the players must hit him hard and tackle him hard to put him off his game.

We need our best players starting the game to get off to a good start - too many times we have our players start poorly - this is clearly a tactical flaw and and a lack of motivation by the players. If collingwood started games like we do Mick would tear them to bits at qtr time.

Skill Errors - we still make to many skill errors which result in opposition scores - players need to be punished for continual skill errors - Jack Watts yesterday made 3 in a row - that is unacceptable at the lowest level of footy let alone AFL

I like forward to seeing improvements in the coming weeks and we can easily turnaround this poor start to the season simply by the players attitude being right before the game - during the game and after the game to get themselves ready for the next contest.

We also require a new fitness team to get our players to an elite fitness level - fitter than the 16 other clubs!!

That is ALL

I used to work for a company doing sales, selling something that I sawa lot of benefit in. I had monthly targets, in the first month, I reached my target, in the 2nd month, I didn't. At the end of the 2nd month, my manager ripped me a new one about not achieving, blah blah. I knew I wasn't achiving, and the last thing I needed was someone telling me. I also thought that it was pathetic of anyone to judge me after 2 months of a new job. History shows, that in the coming months, I was regularly the top salesman, and consistently smashed targets, not just reached them.

The foot up the ass I got at the end of my 2nd month, while I thought was unfair, made me more determined to show my manager that I was the right person for the job. In some ways I should've thanked her, but even when I was easily reaching my targets I was still being driven, so I cracked the sh!ts and left!

My point is, let's just wait for a few more games before we start putting Bailey's KPI's under the microscope. So far, we have won 37.5% of the quarters played. Importantly, there has only been 8 quarters played so far this year. There is a long way to go.

  On 05/04/2011 at 04:38, Roost It said:

He's a good player and a stand in captain. No offence to Brad but one of Scully, Trengove, Viney, or Grimes is the next actual Captain.

I think you are right. Brad could be a good leader, but it doesn't come to him naturally.

This team really needs a leader who is playing in the guts of the play too -that's what i was thinking sunday night.

Now i give Brad some credit he did move up the ground a few times-But we need to find a permanent leader in the middle.

The game is now to fast to have your leader playing from the goal square.

  On 05/04/2011 at 00:01, Hannabal said:

I appreciate that games of footy are won in the midfield, always have been and always will, and that we have no midfield stars, but I don't appreciate players that have no appetite for the contest. The reality is that our team looks like one of the worst drilled teams in the AFL. It's one thing to focus more on player development than gameday strategy, as per Todd Viney's recent article, because we're mindful of our youthful list, but what sort of player development is gained from humiliating team performances ? With the advent of zones, presses, run and spread, and the guarding of space it seems to have escaped Bailey that the best teams still value 'man on man' footy. The defensive aspect of our play is pitiful.

Good summation for mine. In particular what I have highlighted.

  On 05/04/2011 at 04:38, america de cali said:

As the end of last season and contrary to popular opinion I argued that we should go for more midfielders in the draft. I even suggested we go for Robert Eddy as a bargain basement cheapie because he's got genuine St Kilda hardness pedigree that may infect the others.

And the game plan smacks of arrogance to me and lacks respect for opposition strengths. Only seems to work when the opposition is off the boil.

The gameplan, and any successful gameplan in this modern era of zoning requires players have exceptional skill, brilliant awareness with the need to select the right option and a willingness to take the game on, which relies on confidence.

You can have plan a, b, c, d but if you dont have players with the relevant skills necessary then u are in the poo.

Have a look at our second quarter against Hawthorn, our confidence was high, we were breaking through the zone and hitting targets, players went back into their shells and lost the confidence necessary to take risks once Hawthorn got a run on.

That being said the most concerning thing about the side at the mo in my eyes is the lack of defensive pressure being applied when we dont have the ball. I think Jimmy did mention players weren't prepared to gut run when we didn't have theball.

All this heat on Bailey is a tad rash in my opinion. Firstly, no game day coach, genius or otherwise, would've been able turn the tide on Sunday. The simple fact is the players couldn't lay hands on the ball. It was first and foremost a clearance issue and any game plan or tactical set-up will crumble under the sort of seige our clearance "work" allowed on the weekend.

That in itself was not necessarily a coaching issue either. While we had Sylvia, Moloney and Jones, the core of our young midfield that we hope will take us to a flag was not playing and are still probably too raw to match it with teams like the Hawks consistently anyway. Scully, McKenzie, Morton, Gysberts and Blease were all missing on the weekend. In time we hope this core plus Trenners, Sylvia and maybe Grimes will be our Ablett, Bartel, Selwood, Corey etc. but they are a way off yet. And realistically, the midfield stocks yesterday were thinner than they were for most of last year against a top four team with a gun midfield.

Bailey is not a miracle worker guys. He has driven improvement in the side in each of the years he's been at the helm and put together a talented list that is still several years away from peaking. Let's not jump the gun Richmond style before we see some real evidence that he's no good as opposed to some of this over-emotive scape-goating that seems to come up every time we lose a game.

  On 05/04/2011 at 04:41, billy2803 said:

I used to work for a company doing sales, selling something that I sawa lot of benefit in. I had monthly targets, in the first month, I reached my target, in the 2nd month, I didn't. At the end of the 2nd month, my manager ripped me a new one about not achieving, blah blah. I knew I wasn't achiving, and the last thing I needed was someone telling me. I also thought that it was pathetic of anyone to judge me after 2 months of a new job. History shows, that in the coming months, I was regularly the top salesman, and consistently smashed targets, not just reached them.

The foot up the ass I got at the end of my 2nd month, while I thought was unfair, made me more determined to show my manager that I was the right person for the job. In some ways I should've thanked her, but even when I was easily reaching my targets I was still being driven, so I cracked the sh!ts and left!

My point is, let's just wait for a few more games before we start putting Bailey's KPI's under the microscope. So far, we have won 37.5% of the quarters played. Importantly, there has only been 8 quarters played so far this year. There is a long way to go.

Bailey has had the top job since 2008 and in fairness he has completely rebuilt the playing roster. My point is - we need to make changes to the way we have performed so this season - if we dont we will continue to get beaten - IMO there are alot of areas that we can quickly improve on, and there are other areas that take time. I think that our team can play well and win games but they need to change their attitude that they have taken into the first two rounds of the season.

  On 05/04/2011 at 05:03, Bruce Almighty said:

Bailey has had the top job since 2008 and in fairness he has completely rebuilt the playing roster. My point is - we need to make changes to the way we have performed so this season - if we dont we will continue to get beaten - IMO there are alot of areas that we can quickly improve on, and there are other areas that take time. I think that our team can play well and win games but they need to change their attitude that they have taken into the first two rounds of the season.

Interesting. I thought our attitude against the Swans was pretty bloody good. The fact that we didn't win by 10 goals means they had a bad attitude?

Maybe it's the supporters that need to change their attitudes becuase it's quite pathetic how many are sooking after 1 bad loss.

If I didn't know better, I'd swear that we were 0-16 going by some of the posts on this site this week.

  On 05/04/2011 at 05:10, billy2803 said:

Interesting. I thought our attitude against the Swans was pretty bloody good. The fact that we didn't win by 10 goals means they had a bad attitude?

Maybe it's the supporters that need to change their attitudes becuase it's quite pathetic how many are sooking after 1 bad loss.

If I didn't know better, I'd swear that we were 0-16 going by some of the posts on this site this week.

Bad Loss, is that what you call it? We were substantially worse in the third quarter than Gold Coast were in any quarter they played against Carlton; when was the last time an AFL side had that many scoring shots against them in one quarter?

How is it sooking and pathetic to be upset or even ropeable when the team puts in such a pathetic performance? What would you suggest that we slap them on the back and say “oh well you'll do better next time boys don't be disheartened”.

That was one of the worst quarters of football I have seen in my 55 plus years of watching the side, I have never been so disappointed and I have, as do other Melbourne supporters, the right to be angry. If you’re satisfied that we are on track then you have that right too.

Yeah , Jim Stynes is a sook !!!!! Fancy getting disgusted after that fantastic effort.

Careful boys, or you will incur the wrath of you know who. Don't forget, what you're saying could easily be construed as an unreserved bake of the coach and that your touting for DB to slam the players in a public media forum. Of course, nothing is further from the truth. Just two ardent supporters expressing a point of view, a valid one, which they are entitled to do.

This has become a rather entertaining thread. Good to see a few ripping each others throats out...

  On 05/04/2011 at 02:47, rpfc said:

Occasionally I wish we would get on here and, rather than eat Bailey alive, chow down on Green, Moloney, Jones, Rivers, Sylvia, Jamar, and Davey and their 'leadership skills.'

20 scoring shots in a qtr isn't a badly coached team - it's a team that is lazy and isn't led well on he field.

Yep. It was very much a mental problem and was a good kicking between the ears for these blokes.

  On 05/04/2011 at 03:34, dandeeman said:

Somewhere between the two RR's lies the truth.

Yoda, wise words you speak.

  On 05/04/2011 at 03:52, Hannabal said:

A few things:

Well coached teams don't have 19 scores kicked against them in a quarter and nor do they have 63 points kicked in succession.

Senior players have been lambasted for their performance.

If it's reasonable to suggest that a coach is lauded for his team's good performances then it goes without saying that he partly carries the can for inept ones. Do ya follow ?

I don't think anyone at Melbourne is shying away from this H. I ask whether many on here actually watched the Rohan Bail interview and then the Dean Bailey interview. It was quite clear that he gave it to the players after the game and they got the message. Bailey admitted it was a horrid day.

He told it how it was in the press conference.

Mark Thompson had an almost identical persona his whole career when it came to media conferences. He was also facing the sack but never waivered.

However i would go as far to say H that Bailey is hardly ever praised for any of the teams good performances (by Demonlanders or the press), but is one of the first to be blamed for a bad one. Do ya follow?

  On 05/04/2011 at 05:51, RobbieF said:

Bad Loss, is that what you call it? We were substantially worse in the third quarter than Gold Coast were in any quarter they played against Carlton; when was the last time an AFL side had that many scoring shots against them in one quarter?

How is it sooking and pathetic to be upset or even ropeable when the team puts in such a pathetic performance? What would you suggest that we slap them on the back and say “oh well you'll do better next time boys don't be disheartened”.

That was one of the worst quarters of football I have seen in my 55 plus years of watching the side, I have never been so disappointed and I have, as do other Melbourne supporters, the right to be angry. If you’re satisfied that we are on track then you have that right too.

I agree in all my years I cannot remember a worse quarter.

In the last few years we have had games where we got belted but seldom anything as bad as that quarter

and when we are supposed to be in an improving year.

If we cannot complain now when can we?

Imagine if Jimma had said nothing!!!! People would have gone off their Box in here that nothing was done.

Jim said what we were all thinking. I am glad he spoke.

There is no spin- a reporter would have phoned him up and asked what he thought of the game. What is printed would have been his response.

Every Player was responsible for it and should be a little ashamed, But it should also drive them to get stronger & better.

  On 05/04/2011 at 06:40, old dee said:

I agree in all my years I cannot remember a worse quarter.

In the last few years we have had games where we got belted but seldom anything as bad as that quarter

and when we are supposed to be in an improving year.

If we cannot complain now when can we?

......you do complain very well Old Dee.

  On 05/04/2011 at 06:51, Grandson of a gun said:

......you do complain very well Old Dee.

I have had lots of poor games to refine the art.

  On 05/04/2011 at 06:31, iv said:

Careful boys, or you will incur the wrath of you know who. Don't forget, what you're saying could easily be construed as an unreserved bake of the coach and that your touting for DB to slam the players in a public media forum. Of course, nothing is further from the truth. Just two ardent supporters expressing a point of view, a valid one, which they are entitled to do.

Stop your sniping I'va. No one's being muzzled. Everyone's allowed their opinion and their view on the game, team, coach, etc. Even those who think the Mfc have handled the media well or not. You've made your point, move on.

The only person likely to get muzzled is me, when I get sick of trying to explain sense and resort to insults.

Not far off...

  On 05/04/2011 at 07:10, e25 said:

The only person likely to get muzzled is me, when I get sick of trying to explain sense and resort to insults.

Not far off...

Breath Deep now count to 20

Turn off the computer

Go outside and watch the sun set.

Works for me.

  On 05/04/2011 at 06:40, old dee said:

I agree in all my years I cannot remember a worse quarter.

In the last few years we have had games where we got belted but seldom anything as bad as that quarter

and when we are supposed to be in an improving year.

If we cannot complain now when can we?

I also agree. Its the worst quarter ive ever seen, by any team. What hurts more is that we were all fed the garbage about the team taking the next step this year and that youth is no longer an excuse. If thats the case then where do we stand now?

Both the players and coaches are at fault but I feel that there are such fundamental issues with our game plan and structures set by the coaches that the players have little hope in those situations. On top of that most of them cant help that they were born soft. Its the club who drafted them. We need some toughness in this side desperately. Junior and Jordie I miss you.