Tom Scully and GWS

[Guest DeesPower]

I hate to be a party pooper on this thread, but if i was GWS Scully would not be my first priority from the Demon list. There are at least 5 before him in my opinion: Frawley, Trengove, Jurrah, Gysberts or Grimes would all be before Scully in my book. I know some of them are signed up on longer term contracts, but the point i am making is I think Scully at the moment is not even in our top 8. In my book, Scully too often gets caught with the ball and is an inaccurate kick, albeit on both sides of his body, is an average mark, and is a very ordinary shot for goal. On all three of these issues,Jack Trengove leaves him for dead. He does not seem to fit into the Club maxim "that we will only recruit excellent accurate kicks".

If GWS wanted charisma, and talented footballers who would capture the imagination of the rugby loving western sydneysiders, the man they should throw money at is Liam Jurrah. I was at a Swans game in Canberra the year before last, when Liam absolutely starred before going off in the third quarter, and all of the swan supporters around me said: "who is this guy, he is a freak, where does he come from, he will be a superstar".

And he will. i just hope it will be with the Demons in the long term. But i can't think of a more charismatic player in the AFL that would get the turnstiles turning for an expansion club.

[rpfc 28,433]

I hate to be a party pooper on this thread, but if i was GWS Scully would not be my first priority from the Demon list. There are at least 5 before him in my opinion: Frawley, Trengove, Jurrah, Gysberts or Grimes would all be before Scully in my book. I know some of them are signed up on longer term contracts, but the point i am making is I think Scully at the moment is not even in our top 8. In my book, Scully too often gets caught with the ball and is an inaccurate kick, albeit on both sides of his body, is an average mark, and is a very ordinary shot for goal. On all three of these issues,Jack Trengove leaves him for dead. He does not seem to fit into the Club maxim "that we will only recruit excellent accurate kicks".

Ok.

Nah.

[nutbean 8,838]

O'Bree?

Veszpremi?

Hislop?

Gaspar?

The Bears wanted to keep O'Bree and it was bigger money from the Pies that got him so that is one for you.

I would suggest Veszpremi was traded happily ( Swans could have easily kept him if they wanted to) and Hislop was lack of opportunities at a strong club ( also could have been kept) . I see those two as different to Rocca and Buckley whose clubs fought tooth and nail to entice them to stay. I can't remember about Darren Gaspar - was that go home factor ?

I knew there would be others ! The fact remains that very few high quality footballers move clubs after a couple of seasons

[e25 5]

Veszpremi and Hislop were just guys that went to another club after a couple of years.

Both were traded happily by their former teams and neither have been stars.

Gaspar was at Sydney for 2 or 3 years.

I still have swan supporting mates that refer to him as judas.

[e25 5]

I hate to be a party pooper on this thread, but if i was GWS Scully would not be my first priority from the Demon list. There are at least 5 before him in my opinion: Frawley, Trengove, Jurrah, Gysberts or Grimes would all be before Scully in my book. I know some of them are signed up on longer term contracts, but the point i am making is I think Scully at the moment is not even in our top 8. In my book, Scully too often gets caught with the ball and is an inaccurate kick, albeit on both sides of his body, is an average mark, and is a very ordinary shot for goal. On all three of these issues,Jack Trengove leaves him for dead. He does not seem to fit into the Club maxim "that we will only recruit excellent accurate kicks".

If GWS wanted charisma, and talented footballers who would capture the imagination of the rugby loving western sydneysiders, the man they should throw money at is Liam Jurrah. I was at a Swans game in Canberra the year before last, when Liam absolutely starred before going off in the third quarter, and all of the swan supporters around me said: "who is this guy, he is a freak, where does he come from, he will be a superstar".

And he will. i just hope it will be with the Demons in the long term. But i can't think of a more charismatic player in the AFL that would get the turnstiles turning for an expansion club.

Gysberts before Scully? mental.

Frawley has a 4 year contract so it's impossible.

Jurrah would never do it. His motives for playing are different to those of most AFL players.

Trengove maybe. On par with Scully for someone they'd desire.

Grimes grew up supporting the dees and it won't be long before he is captain. No chance.

[Guest hangon007]

Stop beating about the bush H7

Spit it out or shutup

There is nothing more annoying than someone who makes bold statements, alludes to some inside information, beats around the bush, but won't cough up

step right up

Nice try but no cigar ... B) B)

If you want the "inside" information. Why dont you get it from Hutchy. He is never wrong.

(Now just to clarify that - I never believe everything I read in newspapers. However, I've said that multiple times around here.)

So I will ask the same question as I asked earlier? "Ever consider Hutchy might only have half of the story right?"

As I said earlier we will all just have to wait and see how the season unfolds as to whether teams can or can't mount a creditable challenge. Opportunities sometimes only ever come up once in a lifetime and you should never die wondering.

And I will also repeat ... I would just listen to all those wise posters saying - "she will be right mate, we have no worries, this team or that team are no threat" Ultimately, they might be right but that would have more to do with the character of Tom than what they are writing.

[Demonic Ascent 0]

Gysberts before Scully? mental.

Frawley has a 4 year contract so it's impossible.

Jurrah would never do it. His motives for playing are different to those of most AFL players.

Trengove maybe. On par with Scully for someone they'd desire.

Grimes grew up supporting the dees and it won't be long before he is captain. No chance.

Trengove is signed to the end of 2012. So is Tapscott.

I realise that GWS have a two year window to attract players but we don't have to have this discussion about Trengove for another 12 months at least.

[Roost It 1,434]

And I will also repeat ... I would just listen to all those wise posters saying - "she will be right mate, we have no worries, this team or that team are no threat" Ultimately, they might be right but that would have more to do with the character of Tom than what they are writing.

Fair dinkum. I could have sworn he would only stay because I said he would on Demonland.

[Guest hangon007]

Good to see GC17 has been able to sufficiantly stir up a large amount of paranoia to blead over to GWS (as demonstrated by this thread).

If he was to go anywhre, I would proffer it to not be GWS as any other team would probably have to pay overs for a #1 draft pick.

No doubt about it GC17 gave us the "blueprint". Question for me is can GWS improve the "blueprint"?

I know we have many Sheedy haters around here. However, you have to respect the "old fox" and take his words or warning.

"We will actively seek to help anybody get what they want if they help us to get what we want."

[rpfc 28,433]

Nice try but no cigar ... B) B)

If you want the "inside" information. Why dont you get it from Hutchy. He is never wrong.

(Now just to clarify that - I never believe everything I read in newspapers. However, I've said that multiple times around here.)

So I will ask the same question as I asked earlier? "Ever consider Hutchy might only have half of the story right?"

As I said earlier we will all just have to wait and see how the season unfolds as to whether teams can or can't mount a creditable challenge. Opportunities sometimes only ever come up once in a lifetime and you should never die wondering.

And I will also repeat ... I would just listen to all those wise posters saying - "she will be right mate, we have no worries, this team or that team are no threat" Ultimately, they might be right but that would have more to do with the character of Tom than what they are writing.

Ugh.

And this sentence makes no sense (suprise...).

Literally incongruent. Scully staying is a point of fact, and his character can be the reason for that but it does not mean that others believing Scully won't go is wrongheaded or nonchalant.

We are all dumber because of your nonsense in this thread, H7.

[Guest hangon007]

Ugh.

And this sentence makes no sense (suprise...).

Literally incongruent. Scully staying is a point of fact, and his character can be the reason for that but it does not mean that others believing Scully won't go is wrongheaded or nonchalant.

We are all dumber because of your nonsense in this thread, H7.

You are living with your head in the sand. I have no problems with that. Just like that bitter Geelong supporter Hutchy did last year.

I will say it again "people will believe what they want to believe".

Just because I questioned that GWS are not our major threat - you and your mates want to attack me personally. Thats fine.

Dont just read once sentence. Read my whole post. But no there in lies your problem. B)

[e25 5]

More meaningless drivel!

It never ends...

[rpfc 28,433]

You are living with your head in the sand. I have no problems with that. Just like that bitter Geelong supporter Hutchy did last year.

I will say it again "people will believe what they want to believe".

Just because I questioned that GWS are not our major threat - you and your mates want to attack me personally. Thats fine.

Dont just read once sentence. Read my whole post. But no there in lies your problem. B)

No my problem is that i'm seemingly not fluent in crazy.

[daisycutter 29,616]

No my problem is that i'm seemingly not fluent in crazy.

I'm very fluent, but i still don't get it either

[nutbean 8,838]

I'm very fluent, but i still don't get it either

Accepting that there is one grain of truth in the "Richmond are a real worry" theory, I have a question - the only guarantee that an out of contract Scully has is that he can go to GWS as they will have first selections. If we cant negotiate then he ( or any player)can nominate for the ND or PSD - GWS first grab at him.

My question is as follows - can GWS draft someone in the ND or PSD and then do a deal with another club and pass the player on ?

Sheedy's comment that he will help other clubs get what they want if it helps their cause - how does that work ?

( for the record - I dont share the concern that Tom will leave - not to say we should not be vigilant, and knowing the FD will leave no stone unturned, history shows that besides the "go home factor" VERY FEW footballers move to another club after two seasons)

Edited December 14, 2010 by nutbean

[rpfc 28,433]

Accepting that there is one grain of truth in the "Richmond are a real worry" theory, I have a question - the only guarantee that an out of contract Scully has is that he can go to GWS as they will have first selections. If we cant negotiate then he ( or any player)can nominate for the ND or PSD - GWS first grab at him.

My question is as follows - can GWS draft someone in the ND or PSD and then do a deal with another club and pass the player on ?

Sheedy's comment that he will help other clubs get what they want if it helps their cause - how does that work ?

( for the record - I dont share the concern that Tom will leave - not to say we should not be vigilant, and knowing the FD will leave no stone unturned, history shows that besides the "go home factor" VERY FEW footballers move to another club after two seasons)

What are you doing?!

And Sheedy is talking about the pre-siging of state league players that GC did and annoyed clubs with as they were basically stealing things the clubs usually get for free and then selling them to the clubs at inflated prices.

The clubs whinged about it. Said they wouldn't co-operate with GWS. Sheedy said 'yeah, you will.'

End of story.

And there isn't more to H7's ramblings...there's less.

[e25 5]

I think Sheedy is talking about possible 3 way trades, and, more likely, trading pre-selected unregistered players as the Suns have done this year, or trading under-age draft picks to teams in return for established players.

[daisycutter 29,616]

My question is as follows - can GWS draft someone in the ND or PSD and then do a deal with another club and pass the player on ?

I believe they can with a certain no. of 17yos (Jan-Apr birthdates) prior to the ND only (similar to what GC could/did)

but I have forgotten the details

check google something like "GWS 17 DRAFT"

[e25 5]

I actually think with GWS being able to poach uncontracted players over 2 years will create a messy environment.

Say GWS want one of either Scully or Trengove (purely as a hypothetical because the contracts work) but they lean towards Trengove, say 65-35.

Scully is out of contract at the end of 2011.

Trengove is out of contract at the end of 2012.

GWS can only take 1 from each team.

They have no guarantee of getting either, but do they leave Scully and go hard at Trengove the next year?

What if they don't get Trengove, but they have got Scully (who is their 2nd choice)?

GWS will try to avoid this situation, so they'll be going hard at Trengove to get him to commit a full year before his contract ends.

But at the same time, they will be putting the hard word on Scully, but if they go cold on him, everyone knows they have Trengove in the bag.

The games will be visible and ugly.

Now this won't be an isolated case - they will be trying to do this with multiple teams and I'd think it would be pretty obvious straight away that a player has signed.

The media speculation will be unbearable for supporters.

[e25 5]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/106180/default.aspx

and here we have GWS Chief Executive Dale Holmes outlining their plan to acquire players that will peak in 5 years' time.

That puts our list firmly in their sights.

Out of interest, what do people think would be fair compensation if we did lose Scully or Trengove to GWS?

I think at minimum a "before 1st round" pick.

More than Geelong got for Ablett, that's for sure.

[45HG 1,539]

Out of interest, what do people think would be fair compensation if we did lose Scully or Trengove to GWS?

Given that we knocked back two top ten picks to get him, selected him with pick 2 and he's showing that he's well worth it - I'd say astronomical compensation.

[ox_5 163]

Accepting that there is one grain of truth in the "Richmond are a real worry" theory, I have a question - the only guarantee that an out of contract Scully has is that he can go to GWS as they will have first selections. If we cant negotiate then he ( or any player)can nominate for the ND or PSD - GWS first grab at him.

My question is as follows - can GWS draft someone in the ND or PSD and then do a deal with another club and pass the player on ?

Sheedy's comment that he will help other clubs get what they want if it helps their cause - how does that work ?

( for the record - I dont share the concern that Tom will leave - not to say we should not be vigilant, and knowing the FD will leave no stone unturned, history shows that besides the "go home factor" VERY FEW footballers move to another club after two seasons)

Safe bet that the response to your reasonable questions will go as follows...

hangon007, on 28 November 2010 - 05:59 PM, said:

If I told you the answer to that I would have to shot you. So sorry you will never get the answer from me.

If you want an opinion on everything sorry I'm the wrong poster to read. They are far better qualified than me around here... so if I was you, I would just listen to all those wise posters saying - "she will be right mate, we have no worries, this team or that team are no threat"

[old55 23,576]

Given that we knocked back two top ten picks to get him, selected him with pick 2 and he's showing that he's well worth it - I'd say astronomical compensation.

The highest level of compensation is Band 1 which is what Geelong got for Ablett. There isn't anything higher. I agree it wouldn't be sufficient compensation for Scully or Trengove but that's what it is ...

Band 1: 1st round pick BEFORE finalists (i.e. mid first round) + 1st round pick immediately after your 1st round pick [for Ablett]

Band 2: 1st round pick immediately after your 1st round pick [no GC players got this]

Band 3: Pick end of 1st round [for Bock, Harbrow, Brown, Rischitelli]

Band 4: Pick end of 2nd round [for Krakoeur]

Band 5: Pick end of 3rd round

fixed the Band 1 description

Edited December 14, 2010 by old55

[rpfc 28,433]

The highest level of compensation is Band 1 which is what Geelong got for Ablett. There isn't anything higher. I agree it wouldn't be sufficient compensation for Scully or Trengove but that's what it is ...

Band 1: 1st round pick after finalists (i.e. mid first round) + 1st round pick immediately after your 1st round pick [for Ablett]

Band 2: 1st round pick immediately after your 1st round pick [no GC players got this]

Band 3: Pick end of 1st round [for Bock, Harbrow, Brown, Rischitelli]

Band 4: Pick end of 2nd round [for Krakoeur]

Band 5: Pick end of 3rd round

So Pick 10 and 19?

That is getting there but hardly adequate for losing a #1 or #2 pick should it come about.

[e25 5]

For targets, I'm thinking:

RICH - Cotchin, Martin (now tied up), Riewoldt, Griffiths

PA - Boak, Hartlett, Trengove,

GEEL - Selwood, Bartel, Menzel, Varcoe

MELB - Scully, Blease, Trengove, Watts, Morton, Grimes, Gysberts, Bate, Weetra

CARL - Kreuzer, Murphy, Gibbs, Yarran

WB - Higgins, Grant, Cordy, Jones, Roughead

FREO - Hill, Palmer, Suban, Morabito, Fyfe

NM - Cunnington, Hansen, Greenwood, Anthony, Bastinac, Grima, Goldstein,

BRIS - Leuenberger, Rich, Bartlett, Clark

ADEL - Dangerfield, Otten, McKernan, Davis, Douglas, Vince, Mackay

HAW - Rioli, Stratton, Franklin, Ellis, Young, Birchall

ESS - Pears, Gumbleton, Hurley, Melksham, Carlisle, Ryder

WC - Naitanui (now tied up), Shuey, Swift, Shepherd, Kennedy, Hurn, Brown

COLL - Dawes, Sidebottom, Thomas, Pendlebury, Brown, Reid

SYD - Hanneberry, Rohan, Johnston, Reid

STK - McEvoy, Armitage