Why wasn't ever Jeff White moved forward? Daniher's fault? We might have kept Jolly then. He just became the ever continuous shrinking ruckman the longer his career progressed. With all his skills he would have been the gun CHF. Frawley's still growing as a premier defender. An heir apparent to Scarlett IMO. Don't mess with him.

So we move an AA ruckman at the time forward for an underperforming player who spat the dummy? Dont think so. The centre circle rule was not in place when Jolly was traded.

White was moved forward a number of times and proved himself inept in key forward role.

One of White's weaknesses was his poor body on body contest, he was not a strong overhead mark (his great hangers were often chestmarks two or three deep when he had the sit) and he was an indifferent kick for goal.

So we move an AA ruckman at the time forward for an underperforming player who spat the dummy? Dont think so. The centre circle rule was not in place when Jolly was traded.

White was moved forward a number of times and proved himself inept in key forward role.

One of White's weaknesses was his poor body on body contest, he was not a strong overhead mark (his great hangers were often chestmarks two or three deep when he had the sit) and he was an indifferent kick for goal.

I disagree with his goal kicking. It was very good from the 40-50 metre range.

What you say about White's forward prowess sounds similar to how Jack Watts is perceived by many. But that's not stopping attempts to develop him.

So why was Jolly underperforming with us and then leaves to become a gun ruckman? Not spitting the dummy. He made the right decision. He was never going to develop with the opportunituies he got under Daniher. I dispute White was an a complete AA ruckman. Sure with his great leap he touched the ball first often. But it could go anywhere. He looked good but accuracy was a trade off for his lack of height despite his leap.

Edited November 1, 201014 yr by america de cali

White was an excellent shot at goal.

Thanks for some sensible feedback mate.

I also agree- I think he could become our Brian Lake- move down the forward line on occassions.

I also agree- I think he could become our Brian Lake- move down the forward line on occassions.

As I alluded to, Lake has the tendency to do this without the endorsement of his coach. Despite the fact that it can come off, I'm not 100% comfortable with players ignoring coaches instructions and doing as they please.

I think we might see Frawley given more licence as he develops.

In the Irish game he kicked a beautiful goal on the run, backing himself out of defence

As I alluded to, Lake has the tendency to do this without the endorsement of his coach. Despite the fact that it can come off, I'm not 100% comfortable with players ignoring coaches instructions and doing as they please.

That is called initiative-good players have it- I had it- one's that can read the game.

Had MFC had a forward line that could get on the park Neitz would have remained a backmen, a position I feel he was more suited to at the time. The whole game is won and lost in defence and we possibly have the best young defence in the AFL. The main man down there is Frawley, take him out at our peril.

That is called initiative-good players have it- I had it- one's that can read the game.

Initiative is fine if given licence to use it by your coach.

If you do it against his wishes, you become a liability.

The tail cannot wag the dog.

-good players have it- I had it- one's that can read the game.

Hahahaha

Scarlett, that's all that needs to be said.

He's a top 3 FB, makes attacking runs...don't move him, it makes no football sense beyond appeasing a few guys around here who just don't get it. Why do people think he can play up forward anyway?

They don't, but they'd like to imagine he can.

It's a punt and one we don't need to make, in fact we'd be weakening the side if we did.

End of story.

I disagree with his goal kicking. It was very good from the 40-50 metre range.

What you say about White's forward prowess sounds similar to how Jack Watts is perceived by many. But that's not stopping attempts to develop him.

So why was Jolly underperforming with us and then leaves to become a gun ruckman? Not spitting the dummy. He made the right decision. He was never going to develop with the opportunituies he got under Daniher. I dispute White was an a complete AA ruckman. Sure with his great leap he touched the ball first often. But it could go anywhere. He looked good but accuracy was a trade off for his lack of height despite his leap.

White was nothing special in front of goal from any distance.

And your greatly mistaken if you are comparing White and Watts forward process. The assessment of White was over a 10 year period. Watts has been with the Club 2 years. Go figure the rest.

In his final year at MFC in 2004, Jolly missed alot of the season through injury. White was an athletic ruckman who made up for lack of height at the centre through his marvellous leap and great athleticism and tank. During 2004, White dominated the centre bounce area and was the No 1 ruckman in the AFL. White won AA honours.Its not a matter of dispute. He was judged by the AA experts as such Together with Scott Thompson, they were pivotal in MFC topping the table by Rd16. But when Thompson got injured and White started to tire toward season end, MFC's hopes in that year faded. Jolly did play in the last few rounds but played poorly. In addition he cracked the sads off the field and wanted to be No 1 ruckman without ever showing the mettle. He was traded by MFC to Sydney with one year to go on his contract. It took Jolly a further 3 years to become a No 1 ruckman at the Swans. In his first year at Sydney, he saw more pine than a Bunnings warehouse playing 2nd fiddle to Jason Ball. He has become a very good ruckman but at MFC he was many years off that as a green developing player.And you assertion about development under Daniher was quite wrong.

That is called initiative-good players have it- I had it- one's that can read the game.

Where has it gone JCB? B)

That is called initiative-good players have it- I had it- one's that can read the game.

Thanks for that value-add.

Meh. Tyre pumping.

Some people have to.

White was nothing special in front of goal from any distance.

And your greatly mistaken if you are comparing White and Watts forward process. The assessment of White was over a 10 year period. Watts has been with the Club 2 years. Go figure the rest.

In his final year at MFC in 2004, Jolly missed alot of the season through injury. White was an athletic ruckman who made up for lack of height at the centre through his marvellous leap and great athleticism and tank. During 2004, White dominated the centre bounce area and was the No 1 ruckman in the AFL. White won AA honours.Its not a matter of dispute. He was judged by the AA experts as such Together with Scott Thompson, they were pivotal in MFC topping the table by Rd16. But when Thompson got injured and White started to tire toward season end, MFC's hopes in that year faded. Jolly did play in the last few rounds but played poorly. In addition he cracked the sads off the field and wanted to be No 1 ruckman without ever showing the mettle. He was traded by MFC to Sydney with one year to go on his contract. It took Jolly a further 3 years to become a No 1 ruckman at the Swans. In his first year at Sydney, he saw more pine than a Bunnings warehouse playing 2nd fiddle to Jason Ball. He has become a very good ruckman but at MFC he was many years off that as a green developing player.And you assertion about development under Daniher was quite wrong.

Still disagree on Whites goal kicking.

Jeff White does not deserve AA honours if he couldn't complete the business end of the season without tiring. Not good enough for the highest rating if he can't perform in the finals and crunch rounds.

From speaking to my Sydney friends they rated Jolly as a good bargain in his first season.

Edited November 2, 201014 yr by america de cali

I think we might see Frawley given more licence as he develops.

In the Irish game he kicked a beautiful goal on the run, backing himself out of defence

The two best fullbacks I can remember are Chris Langford and Steve Silvagni.

Silvagni was occasionally used up forward with some success while (if I remember correctly), Langford was a stay at home fullback - please correct me if I'm wrong. And I think the Bombers have used Fletcher up forward from time to time, again with some success.

If Frawley does develop further I could see no reason why he couldn't be used up forward on occasion if the situation warranted such a move and the backline was reasonably secure. It never hurts to have the option available!

The two best fullbacks I can remember are Chris Langford and Steve Silvagni.

Silvagni was occasionally used up forward with some success while (if I remember correctly), Langford was a stay at home fullback - please correct me if I'm wrong. And I think the Bombers have used Fletcher up forward from time to time, again with some success.

If Frawley does develop further I could see no reason why he couldn't be used up forward on occasion if the situation warranted such a move and the backline was reasonably secure. It never hurts to have the option available!

I could envisage the situation one day when we might be getting pumped and he'd be thrown forward in particular if he ain't getting the ball down back. But I'd save that for a desperation scenario in the uncharted future. Provides too much value down back at the moment. And there is a lot of potential down forward at the moment that needs to be untapped.

Or tapped, even.

They don't, but they'd like to imagine he can.

It's a punt and one we don't need to make, in fact we'd be weakening the side if we did.

End of story.

WhaT DO YOU MEAN 'END OF STORY' that's the kind of attitude that keeps one 6th to 10th. Some say backs win flags, once it was key forwards, there is no simple formula. Collingwood wouldn't have one without Jolly this year. Any team has a 101 combinations and permutations, good coaches are able to be get a good balance between innovative and steadiness, backs and forwards, talls and smalls, experience and youth ...the list could go on and on. The story never ends, every game every year is a new chapter.

Still disagree on Whites goal kicking.

Jeff White does not deserve AA honours if he couldn't complete the business end of the season without tiring. Not good enough for the highest rating if he can't perform in the finals and crunch rounds.

From speaking to my Sydney friends they rated Jolly as a good bargain in his first season.

So does Mark Jamar not deserve to be AA? He had a ripper season yet stil tired towards the end.

And to your first comment, remember that free kick against the Dogs in 2005?

WhaT DO YOU MEAN 'END OF STORY' that's the kind of attitude that keeps one 6th to 10th. Some say backs win flags, once it was key forwards, there is no simple formula. Collingwood wouldn't have one without Jolly this year. Any team has a 101 combinations and permutations, good coaches are able to be get a good balance between innovative and steadiness, backs and forwards, talls and smalls, experience and youth ...the list could go on and on. The story never ends, every game every year is a new chapter.

Frawley is an AA backman.

Let's throw him forward.

That isn't the attitude that gets you from 10th to a flag.

Let me tell everone here - if we win a flag, Frawley will be FB kicking someone's arse.

Not floating forward and trying to snag a few.

So does Mark Jamar not deserve to be AA? He had a ripper season yet stil tired towards the end.

And to your first comment, remember that free kick against the Dogs in 2005?

No secret Mark Jamar is one of my favorite players. Just read my posts. I'd rate him an A and that's taking into consideration his sensational improvement. Next year hopefully AA. Needs to show he can sustain form for a full season and in particular IF WE GET TO THE BLOODY FINALS HE KEEPS IT! Last season was long and tough for him. If we had a realistic finals incentive I think he would have risen to the challenge. I believe he is made of more sterner stuff than most of our 2004 campaigners.

I don't remember that one but I do remember every goal kicking champ I've seen kick a shocker every once in a while.

Edited November 2, 201014 yr by america de cali

Hahahaha

Have you got it??

Where has it gone JCB? B)

Haven't played for over 40 years now- but others will understand such as Daisycutter and Deeluded.