David Hale

[Disco Demons 92]

http://www.heraldsun...f-1225934580219

could see this coming a mile away!hawks need a ruckman

Edited October 5, 2010 by disco_demon

[Sir Why You Little 36,737]

That post came from incredulity not malice.

I only single out the great ones, WYL.

You know that...

Yes i know RP that's why i laughed. I am well aware of what you meant in the above post. Yes we need B/U for the big Russian, but my concern is that Hale is a battling reserves player right now so our first round pick for him may be a huge gamble. It may turn into a bargain as well.

I have not seen enough of him, but North Supporters i know have already forgotten he exists. So i am a touched concerned.

But i do have faith in our FD. I am merely asking a few Questions, and i have already bought my 2011 membership B)

[e25 5]

Fraser is arguably more of a winger than PJ.

The market will decide Hale's worth.

It's just a shame that we have a cashed up, pick-ed up, competitor up north, jacking up the prices.

Let's not forget - some on here are just as delusional about the worth of our trade bait. Warnock is worth a top 20 pick?! Maric similarly over-rated.

I claim Warnock is worth around pick 17/18 out of desperate hope.

And because of the convenient fact that Carlton & Hawthorn have those picks.

Maric is barely worth a 3rd rounder.

I also think it's entirely possible that the Suns have no real interest in Hale, but know that we are in the box seat & understand how much we want him.

As our list will be peaking shortly before theirs, they understand the need to make things difficult for us.

Of course these tactics are employed as standard.

[daisycutter 29,429]

Yes i know RP that's why i laughed. I am well aware of what you meant in the above post. Yes we need B/U for the big Russian, but my concern is that Hale is a battling reserves player right now so our first round pick for him may be a huge gamble. It may turn into a bargain as well.

I have not seen enough of him, but North Supporters i know have already forgotten he exists. So i am a touched concerned.

But i do have faith in our FD. I am merely asking a few Questions, and i have already bought my 2011 membership B)

haha, beware the back-hander WYL

and keep your tent in good order B)

[Sir Why You Little 36,737]

haha, beware the back-hander WYL

and keep your tent in good order B)

My tent was fine when i left it this morning, although the Power Bills have risen something SHOCKING lately!!-anyone else notice this (what's going on Brumby???) B)

[demoniac 1,316]

There is another element to the Hale deal that we maybe forgetting.

It is Hale that wants out.

He is contracted for two more seasons so North can set the terms.

If no one agrees he stays a North player till next year.

Simple as that!

So it is pretty much take it or leave it.

The MFC does not have much leverage.

The imperative for North to trade is in the $425,000 a season they'll be paying a ruckman to pay in the VFL for each of the next 2 seasons. North are strong in the ruck with Goldstein and McIntosh who form one of the better ruck divisions in the AFL with Petrie to return next year as a key forward who can take a turn as a follower. Therein lies Hale's problem in being the third best ruckman at a team with 2 very good ruckman. As a result he has been played as a key forward which he is quite simply not. He is a ruckman who can take a mark when rested forward.

We have the All Australian Jamar, the very average Paul Johnson and then the still raw and developing Spencer, Gawn and Fitzpatrick. Quite simply Hale is a better ruckman and a better forward than PJ and thus represents a significant upgrade as a Second Ruck who can take a mark and kick a goal resting forward.

If the cost was Pick 12 and 31 for Hale and 17 I'd be a little bit uneasy and want to be assured that we think Hale has the desire to be the best player he can be and not just a guy happy cruising through an AFL career and counting his money. I'd hope that Barry Prendergast is ok with the drop in first round selection in terms of the players he is hoping to get. To a degree we've been spoiled by the Johnstone and Maclean trades. They were exceptional for us and disastrous for the Lions and the Blues. That sort of imbalance is rare in a trade and if we judge all trades by them we'll never do a trade again. In terms of the 2 remaining years at $425,000 on his contract I'd presume that he would sign a 3 year deal with us at $1.1 million incorporating around $200,000 in the third year.

Of course there are a few other teams in the market for a ruckman such as the Hawks and the Bombers so it all may come to nowt.

[Sir Why You Little 36,737]

The imperative for North to trade is in the $425,000 a season they'll be paying a ruckman to pay in the VFL for each of the next 2 seasons. North are strong in the ruck with Goldstein and McIntosh who form one of the better ruck divisions in the AFL with Petrie to return next year as a key forward who can take a turn as a follower. Therein lies Hale's problem in being the third best ruckman at a team with 2 very good ruckman. As a result he has been played as a key forward which he is quite simply not. He is a ruckman who can take a mark when rested forward.

We have the All Australian Jamar, the very average Paul Johnson and then the still raw and developing Spencer, Gawn and Fitzpatrick. Quite simply Hale is a better ruckman and a better forward than PJ and thus represents a significant upgrade as a Second Ruck who can take a mark and kick a goal resting forward.

If the cost was Pick 12 and 31 for Hale and 17 I'd be a little bit uneasy and want to be assured that we think Hale has the desire to be the best player he can be and not just a guy happy cruising through an AFL career and counting his money. I'd hope that Barry Prendergast is ok with the drop in first round selection in terms of the players he is hoping to get. To a degree we've been spoiled by the Johnstone and Maclean trades. They were exceptional for us and disastrous for the Lions and the Blues. That sort of imbalance is rare in a trade and if we judge all trades by them we'll never do a trade again. In terms of the 2 remaining years at $425,000 on his contract I'd presume that he would sign a 3 year deal with us at $1.1 million incorporating around $200,000 in the third year.

Of course there are a few other teams in the market for a ruckman such as the Hawks and the Bombers so it all may come to nowt.

Well written piece, and pretty much sums it up.

How Big is David Hale's desire to succeed? That is the Big one.

We are planning to play finals next year and beyond-so we need him to do a very important job.

It's a Leigh Brown scenario really isn't it, I saw Leigh Brown play a few games at Werribee on ABC and would never have pictured him with a Premiership medallion, but then neither would he back then.

Maybe Hale is loving the idea of getting a crack with LJ & co up forward. The FD will know. We don't. B)

[e25 5]

I can understand Chris Judd, but how does a thread about David Hale possibly getting traded to MFC reach 13 pages?!??

[Sir Why You Little 36,737]

I can understand Chris Judd, but how does a thread about David Hale possibly getting traded to MFC reach 13 pages?!??

Its our first pick in a very important Draft. The MFC gets this one right & we are seriously on the journey.

[H_T 3,038]

What we didn't get was a buck-up ruck/fwd to help Jamar. We want one don't we?

Well guess what boys and girls - they don't grow on trees, you have to pay for it.

Well said. Are you okay rp ?

You're doing just fine.

Everybody take a deep breath. There is still 6 more days to go. I'll be backing the FD decisions. After all they know what we need. I thought we all did too. Apparently some aren't willing to give in order to get. Just remember, there's 15 other sides capable of out bidding us.

[Bonkers 990]

Well said. Are you okay rp ?

You're doing just fine.

Everybody take a deep breath. There is still 6 more days to go. I'll be backing the FD decisions. After all they know what we need. I thought we all did too. Apparently some aren't willing to give in order to get. Just remember, there's 15 other sides capable of out bidding us.

I can't speak for others on this forum but the issue is not whether I'd be willing to give to get. The issue is what price compared to the true value of David Hale do we have to pay. For me he isn't worth any more than pick 45. I'd be willing to give a second rounder because we need a role player. However giving any more than that is just allowing north to bend us over a barrel. Sydney gave up pick 28 from memory for Mumford last year who is a first ruck, St.kilda gave up pick 99 for King who was a role player. I just don't see the value in hutchy's rumored trade, it is almost ridiculous to think that the FD proposed that trade.

[Steamin Demon 392]

Fraser is 20 times better ruckman than Hale.

Is Hale even worth that much?

Maybe 3-4 years ago yes but I'm talking about the present. This is the same Josh Fraser that got smashed but Jack Fitzy only 2 months ago and the same Josh Fraser that couldn't get a game ahead of Leroy Brown or Cameron Wood.

[Robbie57 2,003]

The FD will do the best deal they can achieve. Nixon is talking it up by adding the Hawks in the mix because its really only Nth and Melb talking. Under the new rules the Hawks are not seriously going to go for Hale. Nth must get rid of him especially given their circumstances it would be a nightmare for them to have him suck in their cap. He is now totally useless to them in the way Mark Blake is not worth a candle for geelong.

So lets not caught up in the posturing going on the FD will be better placed than anyone here to know whats on offer.

Maybe they say to Nth thanks but no thanks we will wait to see whats around next year and take Fraser for the one year left in him to help out the russian.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Fraser is 20 times better ruckman than Hale.

He isnt at all.

I can't speak for others on this forum but the issue is not whether I'd be willing to give to get. The issue is what price compared to the true value of David Hale do we have to pay. For me he isn't worth any more than pick 45. I'd be willing to give a second rounder because we need a role player. However giving any more than that is just allowing north to bend us over a barrel. Sydney gave up pick 28 from memory for Mumford last year who is a first ruck, St.kilda gave up pick 99 for King who was a role player. I just don't see the value in hutchy's rumored trade, it is almost ridiculous to think that the FD proposed that trade.

What is proposed is effectively around what Swans paid for Mumford. Steven King was offloaded at pick 99 for salary cap reasons at GFC not market value. The true value of Hale is what the market will pay for him.

[beelzebub 23,242]

What is proposed is effectively around what Swans paid for Mumford. Steven King was offloaded at pick 99 for salary cap reasons at GFC not market value. The true value of Hale is what the market will pay for him.

a-men to that...reluctantly. Despite what any of us feel he is worth...the market will dictate.

[Guest Mr Untouchable]

Melbourne: Pick #17 + Hale

Nth Melbourne: Pick #12 + #32

[agent_orange 0]

I claim Warnock is worth around pick 17/18 out of desperate hope.

And because of the convenient fact that Carlton & Hawthorn have those picks.

Maric is barely worth a 3rd rounder.

I also think it's entirely possible that the Suns have no real interest in Hale, but know that we are in the box seat & understand how much we want him.

As our list will be peaking shortly before theirs, they understand the need to make things difficult for us.

Of course these tactics are employed as standard.

Hale could say I am not going to the Gold Coast, either the dee's or stay at north melbourne and thanks for the 400,000 big ones Brad.

Mind you, I wouldn't mind going to the Gold Coast during winter. But I'd rather play football in the city where it all happens.

Can't wait to see what happens with BRUOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSE

We might get something good for him if he isn't happy

[Adzman 2,154]

Does anyone rate Jesse White of Sydney above David Hale? He is a pinch hitter in the ruck, and is rumored to be on the table during trade talks. He is a capable forward, perhaps more so than Hale. Obviously not as good in the ruck as Hale, but would cost us less to get from the Swans, and fills a need for a forward/ruckman type.

[Bonkers 990]

He isnt at all.

What is proposed is effectively around what Swans paid for Mumford. Steven King was offloaded at pick 99 for salary cap reasons at GFC not market value. The true value of Hale is what the market will pay for him.

The true value of Hale is what he is worth(IMO pick 45 or there abouts), don't get that mixed up with what price the market will pay.

[beelzebub 23,242]

id think many would jump at White...but not sure the Swannies will give him up too easily...spose its an option...if its available

[old55 22,996]

Melbourne: Pick #17 + Hale

Nth Melbourne: Pick #12 + #32

I really hope the deal gets done because I want our FD to get what they want to take us to the flag.

They obviously rate Hale to provide structure that we need to progress. There's been plenty of talk about getting games into young players but thiose games have to be in the right structure otherwise they can't learn the patterns we are going to play. Pies players said it took 2-3 years to get them playing their game-plan right. Fitzy or Gawn aren't going to provide this for years - wasted development years for our entire team. Hale's rucking ability will enable Jamar to get deep and he really is a massive headache for defenders.

The hysteria in this thread is predictable, just take a deep breath, despite inaccurate protestations:

- we're NOT losing a first round pick, just down grading one and losing a late 2nd rounder

- it's not a major unheralded direction change, Bailey has said he wants a tall target and he clearly foreshadowed the possibility of trading early picks to fill a need.

[beelzebub 23,242]

Melbourne: Pick #17 + Hale

Nth Melbourne: Pick #12 + #32

plus maybe something towards his wages...i keep pushing it but if you dont ask you dont get !!

[agent_orange 0]

Stop talking sense, it will get you nowhere.

I don't know much about Hale. He was 4th in NM B&F a couple of years ago and there are three footy clubs chasing him. Those clubs will have monitored him for months, looked at vision, analyzed his game and matched it to theirs, done research on his medical status and spoken to dozens of people about him before making a decision.

I ask myself - do I want to believe a bunch of internet jockeys who have marginal knowledge or 3 clubs who have expended much energy coupled with infinately better knowledge researching him?

I'll back the FD, but as someone once said "footy is an opinion business" so don't let common sense get in the way of your thinking.

That is assuming he has rucking ability.

[daisycutter 29,429]

FYI

Hun quotes Hales contract at $375k. So far I've heard $375k, $400k and $425k

[beelzebub 23,242]

375 isnt so..000 bad !!