Here's an idea I have just thought of - how about we head-hunt the development coach responsible for Riewoldt's career? Couldn't tell you who it was, but instead of f***ing around with untried blokes like Schwarz, Neitz, etc (as much as I love them to death), get someone down there with a proven record of turning a potential superstar in to a true superstar. Get Neitz or Schwarz down there as a mentor.

Those suggesting we hire another specialist coach... Do you know how much this would cost the club?

What the going rate is for a specialist forward coach?

Have you seen the state of the club's finances recently?

What do you expect this specialist coach to be able to do that can't already be done by Mahoney and Kelly O'Donnell (as development coach)?

The cost of a one session per week/fortnight specialist coach would be minimal. We'd be paying a bloke who already has a full time job elsewhere, most likely in the media these days. The person in question would be coming in for just a few hours each trip to do some one on one work with the tall forwards.

I understand your position on this, and I am firmly in the same camp in terms of supporting Mahoney, but falling back on the money defence in this case isn't viable, we're talking small change here and the club's finances are a world away from the parlous state of 2-3 years ago.

Would you suggest refusing our rucks a specialist ruck coach on the same argument or would you be content having Scott West work on their rucking technique??

The most interesting thing Garry said on Footy Classified was that he was exactly the same, struggling to keep his feet, at the same stage of his career.

Why are so many posters desperate to figure out what's broke with Jack that we need to fix, rather than just accepting the blatantly obvious fact that he is young and developing?

Agree 100%. A moment of reason buried in yet another pointless Jack W thread.

Agree 100%. A moment of reason buried in yet another pointless Jack W thread.

Given the high level of sensitivity regarding any perceived criticism of Watts, perhaps consider this same topic in terms of the development of Jack Fitzpatrick, Liam Jurrah, Stefan Martin, Matthew Bate & Brad Miller.

The issue remains the same, playing key position is a specialist role, why shouldn't there be a specialist coach??

Would the "right person for the job" want to take on a role working only once a week or fortnight?

Would someone willing to take on that role be able to provide something Mahoney or O'Donnell can't?

Ive no idea how much, but no matter how minimal the cost, it is too high if there is no benefit to be gained from it.

Given the high level of sensitivity regarding any perceived criticism of Watts, perhaps consider this same topic in terms of the development of Jack Fitzpatrick, Liam Jurrah, Stefan Martin, Matthew Bate & Brad Miller.

The issue remains the same, playing key position is a specialist role, why shouldn't there be a specialist coach??

Maybe because the game is moving on, Nick R does not spend the whole game stadning in the goal square and leading straight to the ball, we even have Barry Hall who I regard as one of the old school, doing a lot of defensive pressure work........the only stay at home is Fevola (reasons why, think about it)..........I would prefer Jack Watts to be able to bob up anywhere and dish off, as well as grab a couple of marks in the 50 a la Saint Nick.......we have moved on 10 years from Neitz etc I personally don't see the benefit of a specialist coach.......Ruck is about the only one......with the other positions being taught by somebody who played there....defender Wellman for the defence, West for the midfield and Mahoney for the forwards.......move forward with the game

This idea of a specialist key forward coach isn't particularly backwards. There are plenty of them going around in the AFL right now. David Schwarz, Wayne Carey & Brian Taylor are just a few I'm aware of who have been used as 'consultants' or 'specialists' in recent years. It's not about teaching a player to play precisely as they themselves play, it's about working on small nuances of play that those people have expertise in like using your body in one-on-one marking contests, leading, and controlling the ball to a teamates' advantage in a contested situation.

Again, use of this specialist would by no means be any kind of suggestion that Josh Mahoney is incapable, a couple of years ago I recall we were using Danny Frawley in this kind of role for our key defenders.

Being a great forward is not a pre-requisite for being a good coach, nor does being a great forward automatically make you a great coach.

Basically, you've got no idea whether or not Josh Mahoney is a better coach than Ox or Garry. In fact, I'd hazard a guess that he probably is a much better coach than either of those two, given that he's a coach and they aren't. Josh was one of the first blokes Dean head-hunted when he took the job. I have a very hard time swallowing this forumulated opinion that he can't coach.

Absolutely spot on - if you are questionning the qulaity of his coaching then judge his potential coach on what they have achieved...as a coach not as a player. For that matter lets get Peter Hudson down... no forget that get a good coach.

He's.

Played.

7.

Games.

Edited June 9, 201015 yr by calabreseboy

For people who think our forward coach needs to have been a star forward themselves:

Do you seriously think that Matthew Lloyd was a good key forward because he had the best conscious knowledege of how to kick alot of goals? Sure, he would have learned tricks and techniques that helped him throughout his career, but he didn't necassarily learn more than other experienced players of lesser quality. By far the main thing that set him apart was his superior natural talent, and you can't just impart that on other players.

It is silly to assume that Lloyd, Schwartz, Lyon, or anyone else would be a better coach than Mahoney because they were better footballers. Unless they have better communications skills (I would seriously doubt this in Schwartz' and Lloyd's case) or have a superior knowledge (which we can only speculate on), chances are they wouldn't be better.

He's.

Played.

9.

Games.

7.

He's.

Played.

7.

Games.

That's not particularly relevant reasoning for why all of our tall forwards shouldn't have the benefit of a specialist or consultant type key forward coach.

get matty lloyed down

To teach him what, the art of diving?

My personal opinion is that Watts will become a Jonathon Brown type player once he finishes growing, bulks up, and becomes comfortable with his size, so just imagine if we'd been able to get him when we had a nibble a couple of years ago. Would love to see a few more blokes who command that level of respect (Scotty West is a great start) employed around the club. (Thinking forward a bit there if course seing big Browny is still playing)

Is it time to have a separate Jack Watts board so that we don't have to tolerate more threads on the same issue? If you want to read the same thing repeatedly you can just check that board?

orrrrr you could just avoid the threads about Jack Watts if you're sick of hearing about it...

Is it time to have a separate Jack Watts board so that we don't have to tolerate more threads on the same issue? If you want to read the same thing repeatedly you can just check that board?

We might have to ask Saints central if they'd mind opening a thread for him just prior to him leaving after he requests a release on compassionate grounds.

If I was his dad, I think my hair might be thinning & my smile disappearing as I contemplate the Fate & the future.

Can't somebody just pass on Lyons suggestion's 2 the YOUNG lad??????

Or better yet, wouldn't it be great if the club just cut out everyone throwing their advice at him and just had Gaz as his mentor? The kid needs confidence and direction, and having heard Garry speak many times, I would say they are the things he can instill.

My gut feeling is that Franklins was making at lot more progress at 19 than our Jack.

Does anyone know how old he was in 2007?

Born in January 1987 so he was 20 for that season. Career average stats are:

Career Season Averages

Year Team Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts Frees For Frees Ag. Brownlow

2010 Hawthorn 7 11.0 5.7 16.7 4.3 3.1 2.7 3.4 0.4 1.1 1.7

2009 Hawthorn 21 8.9 6.1 15.0 5.2 3.2 2.2 2.3 0.4 1.0 1.9 0.19

2008 Hawthorn 25 12.3 3.0 15.3 6.3 4.5 3.5 2.0 0.2 1.1 3.0 0.91

2007 Hawthorn 22 9.1 4.2 13.3 5.6 3.3 2.8 2.2 0 0.8 2.0 0.25

2006 Hawthorn 14 7.0 4.1 11.1 3.8 2.2 0.6 1.8 0.1 0.6 1.8 0.36

2005 Hawthorn 20 7.0 3.6 10.6 3.8 1.0 0.6 2.0 0 0.8 1.3 0.05

Career 109 9.3 4.3 13.6 5.0 3.0 2.2 2.2 0.2 0.9 2.0

Who's teaching Watts to play forward?

No one. He comes to training, does a few drills around some witched hats, has a few kick-to-kicks and runs a lap or two. The coaches sit on the sidelines barking a few instructions. Five minutes goal kicking, then he changes and has a pie before he goes home.

Jeez.

No chips though.

We really should employ someone, on a full time basis, to be a forwards coach.

Bailey, Connolly and Schwab should get together with Bailey having the most say on this proposed, and radical, "Forwards Coach."

Is everyone still with me? Stay with me now.

This "Forwards coach" will be charged with attempting accomplishments like; turning Petterd into a dangerous medium forward capable of kicking multiple goals, designing a forward structure that tears apart more seasoned teams like Brisbane and Port Adelaide, exposing young talent (Watts, Jetta, Bennell, and Wonaeamirri) while still being competitive.

Sounds like a tough job and those expectations are rather extreme.

I reckon Josh Mahoney would be good in that role.

He certainly has the experience and the runs on the board...

rpfc, you should post more often. what on earth is your signature about ?

agree that Mahoney is that man for the job. who else faces a more challenging task than Mahoney in the AFL I wonder ...

As for Watts - does he have a mature key forward teammate alongside him that will take the oppositions best back away from him ? No. He is it !

Sarcasm aside, though witty as it was there is the real expectation that the setups and methodologies employed by the forwards leaves a lot to be desired. Positioning leading into contests is often poor. Leading to foward incursions is often lacking. Presenting ...see leading. As this obviously falls under the auspecies of Josh Mahoney , here lays the reason many ask who is teaching Jack Watts.

Our defence is solidifying and becoming more cohesive by every match. our midfield is a force in the making...our forward line... our forward line ... Ferris...hello !!!!!!

You win games by amassing goals...amazing really that. we can stop them... we just need a better ability to score them...and early.

So again if its JM job...he needs to do better. forward line to date season 2010........... 5/10

Yes it will be better with LJ but hes a freak and hardly needs coaching..( in fact better if you dont ) Will be better for Petterds return.. but he needs more tutoring as well.

If we are to fight on with what we have.. Josh ( if owning the comensurate knowledge and skills ) needs to impose this learning with a greater emphasis.