The Marking Problem of our Talls

[Harrisonrules 273]

I'm sure we are all thoroughly enjoying the development of Mark Jamar. his tap and body work is fantastic, his improvement around the ground is great, particularly his contested marking and kicking especially for goal, it must be close to 90% accuracy. Our back up is the problem. Martin, Johnson, Spencer all have a reasonable capacity to releave Russian at the bounce. Our problem is to find out what to do with them then. A second possition for a tall requires one extra major skill to justify their place on the ground and that is overhead contested marking. This is a major problem at Melbourne. Johnson looks so good until the pack flies and he just cannot read the flight of the ball, Spencer takes an occasional mark but his other skills are poor. He needs several years to develop to justify his position. Martin was good down back, but has taken a lot longer to adjust to a forward postion. Down back he took some good marks but will take more time to satify us with his marking elsewhere. The next level of potentially forward talls, eg 194 to 196cm who might hold down a set position and pinch hit in the ruck similarly have let us down in the contested marking area. Leaving aside JW and LJ, Newton, Dunn, Miller, Bate are our tall forwards but non of them can competatively mark high ina contested situation. Newton gets up there but drops most, Dunn has a good range of skills but rarely if ever flies high and hard for a contested mark and brings it down, Bate has 50% hands and cann't jump at all. Miller has extremely poor hands and has no sense of flying for a mark in a pack, if you doubt me I suggest you look at the final quarter of the Darwin game. There were about 8 chances for him to mark the hard ball and he just couldn't compete. Bate is the only one who has a chance of surviving becasue he has great goal sense and a beautifully accurate kick over distance. Fortunately our tall backs can all mark, Frawly, Warnock, Rivers, Garland, MacDonald.

So where is our hope. Its a year away. I believe Fitzpatrick is our man. And my opinion is as much hope as evidence. I've seen a couple of his games, but several video clips around the draft time. In those he was a great mark, can play forward or back, has great speed and agility and he is 200 cm. Along with JW and LJ he is the missing forward tall and backup ruck. Go Fitzy... I believe Gawm will take time and will be the replacement for Jamar.

[Inner Demon 1]

Way too early to call. Fitzpatrick isn't even playing well enough to crack a game for Casey seniors. That is a long, long way from playing AFL at all, let alone playing well at AFL level. I don't see why you'd put Fitzpatrick more than a year ahead of Gawn in terms of development.

[armstrong35 262]

Way too early to call. Fitzpatrick isn't even playing well enough to crack a game for Casey seniors. That is a long, long way from playing AFL at all, let alone playing well at AFL level. I don't see why you'd put Fitzpatrick more than a year ahead of Gawn in terms of development.

he is injured so how can he?

[Inner Demon 1]

He wasn't, his injury is recent.

Regardless, if he's too injured to be playing this year, just like Gawn, then there's still no explanation for why he should be on a faster timeline than Gawn in cracking into Casey seniors let alone the MFC team, and beyond that playing well.

The OP was predicting we'd see Fitzpatrick making an impact on the MFC team next season. From my perspective, this is as unrealistic as the calls last year/early this year to see Blease do the same. None of those 3 players have played a game for Casey seniors, let alone a number of good games for Casey seniors to earn elevation, and even beyond that play enough games for MFC to start being important members of the team.

It seems that in this age of constant updates and 24/7 information people lose track of time somewhat and lose perspective in how long it genuinely takes players to earn a spot in the side.

[armstrong35 262]

He wasn't, his injury is recent.

Regardless, if he's too injured to be playing this year, just like Gawn, then there's still no explanation for why he should be on a faster timeline than Gawn in cracking into Casey seniors let alone the MFC team, and beyond that playing well.

The OP was predicting we'd see Fitzpatrick making an impact on the MFC team next season. From my perspective, this is as unrealistic as the calls last year/early this year to see Blease do the same. None of those 3 players have played a game for Casey seniors, let alone a number of good games for Casey seniors to earn elevation, and even beyond that play enough games for MFC to start being important members of the team.

It seems that in this age of constant updates and 24/7 information people lose track of time somewhat and lose perspective in how long it genuinely takes players to earn a spot in the side.

i agree with what your saying

just thought u were meaning in the last few weeks.

i havnt seen them play much but hopefully next year they are both ready to come into the side and jamar has another ruck to help him out at and fitzy as a forward if theres no other option

[Inner Demon 1]

Lot of ground to cover for Fitzpatrick to crack into the forward line next season that already has Jurrah, Watts, Bate, Petterd, Wonaeamirri, Bennell, Green, Sylvia, Jetta & Miller all jostling for position.

[armstrong35 262]

Lot of ground to cover for Fitzpatrick to crack into the forward line next season that already has Jurrah, Watts, Bate, Petterd, Wonaeamirri, Bennell, Green, Sylvia, Jetta & Miller all jostling for position.

miller who knows whats going to happen with him and then green only has a few years left so they might be looking for that tall option and if no one else then he might have to be that option

[Eth 4]

Lot of ground to cover for Fitzpatrick to crack into the forward line next season that already has Jurrah, Watts, Bate, Petterd, Wonaeamirri, Bennell, Green, Sylvia, Jetta & Miller all jostling for position.

How many of them are 2 metres tall?

[Inner Demon 1]

So you'd like to see us leave out young, talented players who have earned their places in our side by performing at AFL level in deference to someone who has done exactly nothing so far other than grow to a certain height??

No.

[H_T 3,032]

Lot of ground to cover for Fitzpatrick to crack into the forward line next season that already has Jurrah, Watts, Bate, Petterd, Wonaeamirri, Bennell, Green, Sylvia, Jetta & Miller all jostling for position.

Agree. I think Fitzy at this stage is a premature call and unrealistic call for next year 2011. The Mfc is "hell" bent on being a competitive environment, and a hard nut to crack to get into the starting 22. It's been stated that players have to earn their call-up, there is no easy games given. Of the above mentioned by ID, Fitzy has plenty of competition and in my opinion a hell of a lot of development to go, to bring him up to speed. That said, Bailey was keen on Fitzy at draft time, and I'm tipping he can't wait to "mould" him into something worthwhile.

The hair cut was the first step.

[jnrmac 19,905]

Ricky Bobby is a fantastic contested mark

[rpfc 28,052]

So where is our hope. Its a year away. I believe Fitzpatrick is our man. And my opinion is as much hope as evidence. I've seen a couple of his games, but several video clips around the draft time. In those he was a great mark, can play forward or back, has great speed and agility and he is 200 cm. Along with JW and LJ he is the missing forward tall and backup ruck. Go Fitzy... I believe Gawm will take time and will be the replacement for Jamar.

Fitzpatrick is how long away?!!?

You have got to be kidding me.

This is where most posters would comment on your age but I won't. Above all that. I will say this, if you think Jack Watts will come on next year you are optimistic, if you think Fitzpatrick will come on next year you're hepped up on goof balls.

And a forward line with Watts, Jurrah, Petterd, and Bate will be fine with marking enough ball - mainly because Scully, Trengove, McKenzie, Gysberts, Bennell, and Grimes will be shovelling it down their throat - with quality and quantity - for a decade.

[Roost It 1,434]

And a forward line with Watts, Jurrah, Petterd, and Bate will be fine with marking enough ball - mainly because Scully, Trengove, McKenzie, Gysberts, Bennell, and Grimes will be shovelling it down their throat - with quality and quantity - for a decade.

[Eth 4]

And a forward line with Watts, Jurrah, Petterd, and Bate will be fine with marking enough ball - mainly because Scully, Trengove, McKenzie, Gysberts, Bennell, and Grimes will be shovelling it down their throat - with quality and quantity - for a decade.

Plus Fitzpatrick and that's pretty awesome

[Harrisonrules 273]

Bailey recently stated publicly that the forward line will need one more solid tall to stand by Jack Watts and Liam Jurrah. His vision is for the three talls. And don't forget Liam is only 188. Jurrah and Watts are mobile talls but lack weight. We need the solid pack marking forward according to Dean Bailey. There is nobody in the club who is measuring up to this requirement at the moment. Fitzy is the next in line to show his wares. Middle of next year he may appear but even if it is 2012 my opinion stands. If Gawm progresses quicker I'll be happy. In my opinion Fitzpatrick will appear earlier.

[Bleasey as that 99]

Way too early to call. Fitzpatrick isn't even playing well enough to crack a game for Casey seniors. That is a long, long way from playing AFL at all, let alone playing well at AFL level. I don't see why you'd put Fitzpatrick more than a year ahead of Gawn in terms of development.

agree...

from what I'v seen in terms of TAC cup and draft camp etc. Gawn will be ready well before fitzpatrick is...

[Akum 2,660]

There is actually an important point to this thread.

This year we've done poorly when we've picked another ruckman to back up Jamar - the second ruckman (Spencer or PJ) has contributed virtually nothing and we've been worse for not having picked another runner instead. We've looked much better when we've used that 22nd spot for a runner, even if it's meant that we've had to resort to Dunn or Sylvia as back-up to Jamar.

We're badly in need of a tall who can hold down a place in the forward line, but who could also pinch-hit in the ruck - like Kreuzer or Hawkins - but we don't have anyone at the moment who can fit the bill. Spencer, PJ & even Meesen are all tap ruckmen who contribute very little around the ground, and are nowhere near worth selecting as a forward. Like many, I was hoping that Stef Martin would step up this year, but so far he's given no indication at all that he'll ever be worth a spot in the 22 as a forward.

In their junior footy, Fitzpatrick held down FF while being able to step into the breach as ruckman if needed, and Gawn rucked but could provide a dangerous forward target when needed. At this stage it looks like we have no alternative but to wait until either of them come through.

In the meantime we'll always be vulnerable whenever Jamar needs a rest.

[DeeSpencer 24,792]

The other options besides waiting for Gawn or Fitzpatrick (who may never deliver) are:

1. Spencer improves to a stage where he can ruck for 50% of game time with little difference to Jamar, allowing Jamar to go forward.

2. Martin. His game against Brisbane was the best game we've seen from a back up this year. It was pretty decent. If Stef can ruck 35% and provide a contest up forward and still maintain forward pressure for another 35% and hold up his man (which Spencer and PJ haven't done in their games) then he deserves a spot going forward.

Either way the team will have to cop some pain as we introduce one of these strategies more regularly this year and probably next.