If I remember correctly Tom Hawkins was touted as a No.1 draft pick before Geelong took him under the father/son rule. And if I remember correctly he was going to set the football world alight from the moment he stepped onto a football field at AFL level.

Well he hasn't! Yes, he played in a winning grand final but was hardly best on ground (and quite frankly M. Newton of the MFC would have been OK with that team around him). Looking at him yesterday he was woeful, hardly touched the ball and when he did he was all thumbs. At the moment he looks severely out of his depth, a VFL player at best!

From what I hear and read Geelong fans aren't too impressed and are starting to see him as a list clogger!

Which brings me to Jack Watts. Three years or so younger than Hawkins and without the huge body, Watts appears more nimble, faster and to have better skills than Hawkins.

Frankly, I don't care if we don't see the kid at senior level for another year (or at least 'till late in this season). He must be given tine to properly develop and to grow into his body.

What I do not want to see is Jack Watts as another Tom Hawkins.

i have thought of this comparison over the last year.. was hawkins ment to be the next tony lockett!? maybe the hype has got into his head. though it is a complete joke how the media hype up these young kids before they have played a game!

No comparison... When he comes back, Jack will not play a game of AFL footy where he doesn't get a kick. Has shown an ability to get the ball.

What has surprised about Hawkins is the fact he's not getting the ball on the lead. I played back pocket on a team that Hawkins kicked 10 on when he was 17. The guy simply was bigger than anyone and was a huge target on the lead. It's tough but I don't know if he's able to play anywhere but out of the goal square, and don't know if he's been given the chance to play as a true FF.

He (Hawkins) is still young and IMO still see alot of potential Geelong are far from there best at the moment and it's because a fare chunk of there players are down on form Hawkins included. As for the Jack watts comparison IMO 2 completely diffident players. Watts will hopefully mold himself on reiwoldt and hawkins is more of kozi who can play in the ruck or full forward.

i have thought of this comparison over the last year.. was hawkins ment to be the next tony lockett!? maybe the hype has got into his head. though it is a complete joke how the media hype up these young kids before they have played a game!

Not sure it was the media. I think the fans had a lot to do with it and still do. The media only reflects the market, and clearly a lot of people are interested in the success or otherwise of Jack Watts. Understandably

The challenge though for the clubs and its fans is to get the best out of jack, and that means giving him space to develop and improve. He will not get a game in the seniors until he earns it. we are no longer giving specy places away if we want to be a serious finals contender. And we do, and we can be.

The team is flying along nicely now so we dont need young jack. we will when he hits his straps, and i like you do not mind if that is next year. Let him be BOG at Casey a couple of times to get his confidence sky high, and then make an impact when he comes. the last thing we want is for him to come in, make little impact, then go back to the 2s.

He will be a star. let's just give him time

is this really a thread?

edit: it's a bad post that belongs in a long list of Jack Watts threads.

2008 he barely played for the cats...i remember after the hawks beat the cats in the grand final they were saying they should put a massive preason into hawkins or trade him...i think they seemed to rush him in before he was ready...maybe melb is actually looking at watts as another hawkins already...

If I remember correctly Tom Hawkins was touted as a No.1 draft pick before Geelong took him under the father/son rule. And if I remember correctly he was going to set the football world alight from the moment he stepped onto a football field at AFL level.

Well he hasn't! Yes, he played in a winning grand final but was hardly best on ground (and quite frankly M. Newton of the MFC would have been OK with that team around him). Looking at him yesterday he was woeful, hardly touched the ball and when he did he was all thumbs. At the moment he looks severely out of his depth, a VFL player at best!

From what I hear and read Geelong fans aren't too impressed and are starting to see him as a list clogger!

Which brings me to Jack Watts. Three years or so younger than Hawkins and without the huge body, Watts appears more nimble, faster and to have better skills than Hawkins.

Frankly, I don't care if we don't see the kid at senior level for another year (or at least 'till late in this season). He must be given tine to properly develop and to grow into his body.

What I do not want to see is Jack Watts as another Tom Hawkins.

Hawkins is whats called a 'Gorilla'.

Riewoldt or Loyd or Watts or Buddy are Not...

Big Mobile athletic forwards like this are brilliant.

We'll have our own semi - gorilla, if, he comes good down the track in Fitzpatrick, or Martin, but both of these are reasonably athletic & quick.

Hawkins is whats called a 'Gorilla'.

Riewoldt or Loyd or Watts or Buddy are Not...

Big Mobile athletic forwards like this are brilliant.

We'll have our own semi - gorilla, if, he comes good down the track in Fitzpatrick, or Martin, but both of these are reasonably athletic & quick.

Watching Martin in the forward line he didnt seem overly quick, but I do like the way he played that day, took a few strong marks and kicks well, I see a future for him at the club.

Back to the topic, I have watched Tom Hawkins play a few times and at time he looks either scared or he does not know what to do with the ball... when he is dead infromt of goal, he is a gorilla.

Where Jack Watts has the ability and the smarts.

From the MFC webpage, Casey Scorpions review

Jack Watts -

I thought Jack was good. He kicked two goals, and again - considering the conditions, he worked hard to make a contribution. He had a really good third quarter from the perspective of coming up and getting involved in the middle of the ground. Naturally, when you’re kicking into the wind, the ball’s not going to come to you that readily in the forward line, so he had to work hard, and he got a lot of good ball between wing and half back. He’s just so neat, and he’s got good lateral movement. He gets around guys, and he’s a neat kick, and he hits targets. He was covering both sides of the ground, so he was actually working pretty hard, I thought He had six chases, which is fantastic, and he put on a lot of pressure - he wanted to stay in the game.

Watching Martin in the forward line he didnt seem overly quick, but I do like the way he played that day, took a few strong marks and kicks well, I see a future for him at the club.

Back to the topic, I have watched Tom Hawkins play a few times and at time he looks either scared or he does not know what to do with the ball... when he is dead infromt of goal, he is a gorilla.

Where Jack Watts has the ability and the smarts.

From the MFC webpage, Casey Scorpions review

Jack Watts -

I thought Jack was good. He kicked two goals, and again - considering the conditions, he worked hard to make a contribution. He had a really good third quarter from the perspective of coming up and getting involved in the middle of the ground. Naturally, when you're kicking into the wind, the ball's not going to come to you that readily in the forward line, so he had to work hard, and he got a lot of good ball between wing and half back. He's just so neat, and he's got good lateral movement. He gets around guys, and he's a neat kick, and he hits targets. He was covering both sides of the ground, so he was actually working pretty hard, I thought He had six chases, which is fantastic, and he put on a lot of pressure - he wanted to stay in the game.

Martin is extremely quick leg speed for his size, & has good lateral movement, as well as a beautifull reader of the flight of the ball.

Tom Hawkins is a Gorilla by his size, height x weight/strength... Neanderthal-ish.

Hawkins was compared to a young Tony Locket in a throw away line by Dennis Pagan when doing special comments

I have never seen so much fascination for a player in all my years of watching football than Jack Watts

The only thing Hawkins has over Watts is a Premiership and a bigger fridge

Does anyone remember Graeme Jacobs? He was centre-half forward in Melbourne's last premiership team and may have kicked four goals in the semi-finals, two in the grand. Kind of disappeared after that. He may have transferred to South Melbourne. Does anyone remember him?

Watching Martin in the forward line he didnt seem overly quick, but I do like the way he played that day, took a few strong marks and kicks well, I see a future for him at the club.

Back to the topic, I have watched Tom Hawkins play a few times and at time he looks either scared or he does not know what to do with the ball... when he is dead infromt of goal, he is a gorilla.

Where Jack Watts has the ability and the smarts.

From the MFC webpage, Casey Scorpions review

Jack Watts -

I thought Jack was good. He kicked two goals, and again - considering the conditions, he worked hard to make a contribution. He had a really good third quarter from the perspective of coming up and getting involved in the middle of the ground. Naturally, when you’re kicking into the wind, the ball’s not going to come to you that readily in the forward line, so he had to work hard, and he got a lot of good ball between wing and half back. He’s just so neat, and he’s got good lateral movement. He gets around guys, and he’s a neat kick, and he hits targets. He was covering both sides of the ground, so he was actually working pretty hard, I thought He had six chases, which is fantastic, and he put on a lot of pressure - he wanted to stay in the game.

Stef Martin finished first or second (can't remember)in the 2008 Grand Final day sprint......he is very quick, nuff said.

what part of overly quick do people not understand? Why is it people only see & hear what they want to and filter out the rest?

Does anyone remember Graeme Jacobs? He was centre-half forward in Melbourne's last premiership team and may have kicked four goals in the semi-finals, two in the grand. Kind of disappeared after that. He may have transferred to South Melbourne. Does anyone remember him?

Not sure how this is relevant to the topic, but I remember Graeme. Wore #20 if my memory serves me correctly. Premiership player in first season. Was cleared to South Melbourne after a few years with the Dees.

I think the issue with Hawkins is similar to many key position players and how difficult it is to play that role in today's football. You only have the plethora of high draft, key position players that have not lived up to expectations. Think Gumbleton, Hansen, Thorp, Sellar, Dowler, Hawkins, Henderson and Josh Kennedy. Current game plans make it difficult for key forwards to perform. It is only the truly outstanding players such as Riewoldt, Franklin, Brown and Fevola that have defied this trend.

I think the issue with Hawkins is similar to many key position players and how difficult it is to play that role in today's football. You only have the plethora of high draft, key position players that have not lived up to expectations. Think Gumbleton, Hansen, Thorp, Sellar, Dowler, Hawkins, Henderson and Josh Kennedy. Current game plans make it difficult for key forwards to perform. It is only the truly outstanding players such as Riewoldt, Franklin, Brown and Fevola that have defied this trend.

I don't think Josh Kennedy quite deserves to be listed with that lot.

I think the issue with Hawkins is similar to many key position players and how difficult it is to play that role in today's football. You only have the plethora of high draft, key position players that have not lived up to expectations. Think Gumbleton, Hansen, Thorp, Sellar, Dowler, Hawkins, Henderson and Josh Kennedy. Current game plans make it difficult for key forwards to perform. It is only the truly outstanding players such as Riewoldt, Franklin, Brown and Fevola that have defied this trend.

Yeah. Hawkins strikes me as a non versatile player. His only position is inside forward 50 and in this day and age, the trend of forwards is mobility and flexibility. Hawkins seems to have little of either.

Not sure how this is relevant to the topic, but I remember Graeme. Wore #20 if my memory serves me correctly. Premiership player in first season. Was cleared to South Melbourne after a few years with the Dees.

Jacobs was a 20yo k.p.p in a premiership side who then fell off the pace when his team fell off the pace. Same as Hawkins.

Does anyone remember Graeme Jacobs? He was centre-half forward in Melbourne's last premiership team and may have kicked four goals in the semi-finals, two in the grand. Kind of disappeared after that. He may have transferred to South Melbourne. Does anyone remember him?

Certainly remember Graeme Jacobs (spelt Graham on some football cards) at both Melbourne and South Melbourne

Wore 20 at the Demons

He probably had better games at South but he sure was a handy forward in 1964 (his debut year)

I believe he was non playing coach of Vermont and led them to a premiership in 1982

Vermont went on to be one of the most successful suburban clubs in the state

I wouldn't be surprised to see Jack play a role similar to Cale Morton when he comes in, sort of half forward/wing until he becomes more comfortable with AFL football. That way he wouldn't be up against some of the bigger full backs that would have it all over him for strength and size.

Hawkins has been a big disappointment and I guess the cats must be glad they got him Father and Son and didn't have to pay too big a price for him.

Certainly remember Graeme Jacobs (spelt Graham on some football cards) at both Melbourne and South Melbourne

Wore 20 at the Demons

He probably had better games at South but he sure was a handy forward in 1964 (his debut year)

I believe he was non playing coach of Vermont and led them to a premiership in 1982

Vermont went on to be one of the most successful suburban clubs in the state

Didn't Graham play Cricket for Victoria as well?

2008 he barely played for the cats...i remember after the hawks beat the cats in the grand final they were saying they should put a massive preason into hawkins or trade him...i think they seemed to rush him in before he was ready...maybe melb is actually looking at watts as another hawkins already...

Finally after 3789 Jack Watts threads someone has put their finger on it. Melbourne, who recruited a tall, extremely skilled, super quick and mobile player with beautiful lateral movement and a pair of hands you could spin silk from actually now believe he is in fact another Hawkins. A struggling young forward who himself is still learning the game at AFL level. I'm no longer reading Jack Watts threads!