yeah

You'd be better off doing number of games won, as opposed to ladder position, which depends not just on us but on other clubs as well.

8-10 wins, aronund 11th on the ladder

More importantly, we will see significant signs of improvement.

At least, we'd better.

I agree we'll probably win about 7-8 games this year.

The reason we won't win many more than this is because of our rebuild, we are relying on too many inexperienced and young players in key positions. If all these guyz step up and take hold of their position, we will do well, but obviously that won't happen with so many teenagers.

To evince this, I have in my starting 22:

- Bennel, Jurrah, Watts, Wonaeamirri, Grimes, Morton, Maric (with strauss, Blease, Scully and Trengove the next players into my 22)- all these guyz are teenagers!

- Garland, Frawley, Bate, Pettard, Jones, Marin are also in my 22... they are under 22 even though they are sometimes treated as experienced players

Basically we have lots of young players, which all clubs do, but OUR young players are all in our starting team!

Add to that list picks 11,18,34,50 and PSD1... of which 1 or 2 of those guyz will surely play games in 2010... plus Jetta and McNamara

Our rise to the top half of the ladder will only happen once the guyz I have mentioned above have played around 50 games, have strong AFL bodies, and the new teenagers in our team are able to be protected by the experienced players by playing more peripheral role in the team.

I feel sorry that guyz like Watts, Jurrah and Morton have to play such huge roles in the team... but i guess that just shows where we are at atm. I just can't wait for all these guyz to mature together. We will be scary good in 2012.

I voted 15th with a 6-16 record.

2011 is when all the draft picks will start cooking and a 7th-10th finish could be feasible.

I still have grave concerns about our midfield (the most important ingredient to winning a game):

-16th in clearances

- Moloney is our best midfielder (good player but shouldn't be a club's #1 ranked mid)

- Despite his crap 2009, we'll dearly miss a fit and firing Mclean

- Jones is 'say-so'

- Trengove and Scully aren't ready to win us games yet.

- Not sure if Sylvia is better suited to starting mid or high half fwd?

Furthermore there were many games prior to the list management period where we were very much inferior, (eg- Essendon, Brisbane, Collingwood x2, Port, Hawthorn). Our general field kicking was at times deplorable, so this will have to improve drastically in order to double our win tally.

I think 2010 is too early to start predicting double figure wins. Hope I'm wrong though.

Edited November 21, 200915 yr by Bring-Back-Powell

Position 8, That is what the Club as a whole should be aiming for.

Our team will still be under valued & to some degree & unknown to the other 15 sides.

Early Foxtel games will help us to stay just under that Radar-that is a real Bonus.

"The Darkest Hour is just before the Dawn"

Furthermore there were many games prior to the list management period where we were very much inferior, (eg- Essendon, Brisbane, Collingwood x2, Port, Hawthorn). Our general field kicking was at times deplorable, so this will have to improve drastically in order to double our win tally.

The counter point to this would be that even during the "list management period" we had some decent showings - beating Port, essentially beating Richmond (though we both I understand what you would say), a good showing against the Saints, a smacking of Freo (only our 3rd 10 goal win since our last Grand Final), 3 decent quaters at the cattery.

Now don't get me wrong, I am fully aware of the circumstances of each of those matches and am not saying the 2-3 good quarters he or there is acceptable, however I think we have shown enough to give the impression that we have a very solid base to work from.

It seems like forever ago, but I specifically remember the first 6-7 weeks felt like things were starting to gel into place and we were starting to see the systems take form - unfortunately more injuries and poor form lead to the season ending the way it did.

lol @ whoever voted 1

Lots of love for even numbered positions, there.

i picked 10th

I think its really important we improve when we dont have the ball

We are starting to gain players who can actually kick so that should help lessen our clanger count and get more

chances into our forward 50

Looking forward to the debut of Blease , Strauss and Co

We got flogged far too much in Baileys first season although we did improve last year

I think 10 goal losses are unacceptable this year no matter who it is against

The are some fantasy's out there.

14th Would be a steady improvement, anything better would be a surpise.

lol @ whoever voted 1

I couldn't help it. Something about the 'be honest' in big capital letters made me do it.

11th for me. A few more wins against Victorian clubs would be great.

I don't think we'll see us get belted by 6-8 goals as much next year. I think we'll see more 3-6 goal losses.

I guess one good thing this year was we only lost my more than 10 goals once, which is a lot better than how many we suffered in '08.

The counter point to this would be that even during the "list management period" we had some decent showings - beating Port, essentially beating Richmond (though we both I understand what you would say), a good showing against the Saints, a smacking of Freo (only our 3rd 10 goal win since our last Grand Final), 3 decent quaters at the cattery.

Now don't get me wrong, I am fully aware of the circumstances of each of those matches and am not saying the 2-3 good quarters he or there is acceptable, however I think we have shown enough to give the impression that we have a very solid base to work from.

It seems like forever ago, but I specifically remember the first 6-7 weeks felt like things were starting to gel into place and we were starting to see the systems take form - unfortunately more injuries and poor form lead to the season ending the way it did.

Carlton in 04 by 105?

The other one?

Hawks by 75 in '06

I voted 15th with a 6-16 record.

2011 is when all the draft picks will start cooking and a 7th-10th finish could be feasible.

I still have grave concerns about our midfield (the most important ingredient to winning a game):

-16th in clearances

- Moloney is our best midfielder (good player but shouldn't be a club's #1 ranked mid)

- Despite his crap 2009, we'll dearly miss a fit and firing Mclean

- Jones is 'say-so'

- Trengove and Scully aren't ready to win us games yet.

- Not sure if Sylvia is better suited to starting mid or high half fwd?

Furthermore there were many games prior to the list management period where we were very much inferior, (eg- Essendon, Brisbane, Collingwood x2, Port, Hawthorn). Our general field kicking was at times deplorable, so this will have to improve drastically in order to double our win tally.

I think 2010 is too early to start predicting double figure wins. Hope I'm wrong though.

Dont slash your wrists.

We should improve on LY. The list management issue cost us 3 to 4 wins. We were better in the 2nd half than 1st half where there was palpable improvement in a number of areas.

-16th in clearances - Everyone knows our midfield was carp last year.

- Moloney is our best midfielder (good player but shouldn't be a club's #1 ranked mid) - At this point he might but by mid 2010 and certainly end of 2010 he wont be.

- Despite his crap 2009, we'll dearly miss a fit and firing Mclean - He had a crap and injury ridden 2007 and 2008. His 2009 was lack lustre and we have lost little on that performance

- Jones is 'say-so' - He had a better year than

- Trengove and Scully aren't ready to win us games yet - They dont have to win games but FFS even you must see that our midfield with them in it must be better off from day 1

- Not sure if Sylvia is better suited to starting mid or high half fwd? - So long as he is playing and focussed he will hurt opposition team and can break games.

I would be expecting 8 wins in 2010 which should put us at around 11-12. Any more will be a bonus. The team is still young and they will tire during a long season. The beltings should be fewer but the performances should be better across the Board

It's less important where we finish on the ladder and more important how many games we win.

Given that list management cost one clear win last year, and maybe two outright if we are honest, then anything less than eight wins is insufficient.

After scanning the fixture a couple of weeks ago I reckoned on 8 wins, 10 if we were very lucky.

As for ladder position, I think 12th-13th would be about right unless something extraordinary happened. I expect to finish above Norf, Freo & Port, with someone like the Swans or Essendon slipping (heh heh).

10th. Cost ourselves a few wins last year with list management, that would have had us on 5-6-7 wins, and i expect with all the talented kids running around we'll get on a short roll or two of wins. Couple of years down the track when a solid team has developed.. look out!

lol @ whoever voted 1

We can't finish number 1. We have a big game in China on Oct 17 and we must have a 6 week break b/w our last AFL game and our Shanghai shoot-out with Brisbane.

So we'll have use our 'list management' strategies for another year.

You'd be better off doing number of games won, as opposed to ladder position, which depends not just on us but on other clubs as well.

you know strangely there is actually a relationship between games won and ladder position. They aren't mutually exclusive entities. Get this: the more you win the higher you finish. You might even be able to make a guess where a side will finish on the ladder with a given amount of wins if you really think about it

No doubt you knew before last season that Essendon's 10 1/2 wins would get them into the finals.

I see us with around 9 wins - last year that gets us 9th, 2007 that gets us 14th.

Edited November 22, 200915 yr by 45hotgod16

No doubt you knew before last season that Essendon's 10 1/2 wins would get them into the finals.

I see us with around 9 wins - last year that gets us 9th, 2007 that gets us 14th.

Yeah and its usually worth 11th or 12th which is what you voted for I assume

Not a big mental stretch

But the numbers of wins would be a truer reflection of how we will see the year going because ladder position depends on 15 other teams' wins and losses. Not too difficult to understand.

But the numbers of wins would be a truer reflection of how we will see the year going because ladder position depends on 15 other teams' wins and losses. Not too difficult to understand.

by naming a ladder position you are saying 'how many sides will be worse/better than us' which is a more accurate gauge of our standing in the competition

Seems different to your initial slant but play on.

I actually voted 10th, so even with my number of wins you can't gauge a ladder position from my estimate.

Perhaps it would be better to get out the fixture and tick the games we think we'll win - maybe I'll make a poll about that.

Wow. I voted 14th. But that's a worst-case scenario. We could go as high as 9th I reckon. But at the end of the season when we're fighting it out to just make it in, you'd suggest we wouldn't have the mature bodies to make it.

It seems to me VERY often that there are clubs that make a sudden and significant impact in finals, after having been in the doldrums for a while. After their impact they slide back into 6-12th place depending on how their lists go with injury. But their initial rise is so often not predicted by anyone.

Think the Hawks the year before they won the flag. I reckon 2011 will be the year we come from ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE to glide effortlessly into contention. Around that time the Dogs will be doing a minor rebuild and the Cats will be in the slide.

That year, however, could very well be next year. Like I said, when it happens no-one sees it coming.