The Middle Ground

[rpfc 28,539]

Explanations and biases:

With the 7 forwards close to being set (Wonaeamirri, Jurrah, Green, Bate, Watts, Sylvia, and 'Miller/Petterd') aswell as the defensive 7 (Rivers, Garland, Warnock, Frawley, Grimes, Bruce, and 'McDonald/Bennell') I have left 8 spots for the rucks (2) and midfielders (6).

Keep in mind that Sylvia, Grimes, Bruce, Green, Bate, and 'McDonald/Bennell' will have a run a through the middle from time to time.

As I have a slight majority seeing McDonald as a mid (as opposed to a defender) and I have included him in the midfield poll.

Moloney, Davey, Morton, and Jones are midfield locks at this stage, and I have taken the step of giving them 4 of the available 6 spots in the midfield.

Jamar is also a clear lock as No 1 ruck.

Edited November 4, 2009 by Nasher
Fixed some spelling in your poll

[Guest straussski]

y isnt strauss mention in the midfield group? he was drafted as a midfielder...but would probly play off hlf back?

[rpfc 28,539]

y isnt strauss mention in the midfield group? he was drafted as a midfielder...but would probly play off hlf back?

I could included him but I doubt it would make a difference to the end result.

And, yes, I see him off half back, and included him in the 'Backward Thinking' poll.

[Guest straussski]

I could included him but I doubt it would make a difference to the end result.

And, yes, I see him off half back, and included him in the 'Backward Thinking' poll.

fair enough

[rpfc 28,539]

I changed the wording of the first question because I felt it looked like I was asking who would play No 1 ruck if Jamar was injured.

I am, of course, trying to pin down our best 22, so I changed the wording to illustrate I am looking for the person to be back-up ruck to Jamar.

Edited November 4, 2009 by rpfc

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

Why wasn't Sylvia named?

C: DAVEY, JONES,SYLVIA

FOLL: JAMAR, SCULLY, MOLONEY

McDonald and Martin on the bench. Jones to the bench if we get Ball.

[... 11]

Couldn't complete the survey. Enjoyed the las two you've ran, but felt this one corralled me into decisions that didn't necessarily have to be made. Aside from the fact that injuries and form will dictate who is available, statements such as "McDonald in the backline at the expense of Bennell" left me wondering if we have a bench. Also, you claim that Jamar is a certainty for first ruck, where I wonder if he might play more of a forward role with Spencer as first ruck. A lot of the survey depended on us agreeing with some presumptions that aren't as clear-cut as you have made them out to be.

That said, I'm not having a go, and think that the 'midfield poll' (notice correct use of apostrophies) would be a difficult poll to put together.

[rpfc 28,539]

Couldn't complete the survey. Enjoyed the las two you've ran, but felt this one corralled me into decisions that didn't necessarily have to be made. Aside from the fact that injuries and form will dictate who is available, statements such as "McDonald in the backline at the expense of Bennell" left me wondering if we have a bench. Also, you claim that Jamar is a certainty for first ruck, where I wonder if he might play more of a forward role with Spencer as first ruck. A lot of the survey depended on us agreeing with some presumptions that aren't as clear-cut as you have made them out to be.

That said, I'm not having a go, and think that the 'midfield poll' (notice correct use of apostrophies) would be a difficult poll to put together.

It could have made it wide-ranging and nuanced but it would have been untenable.

The McDonald/Bennell situation is a flow on from the 'Backward Thinking' poll in which a majority of posters saw McDonald in the midfield and not in the backline, and a plurality of posters wished to see Bennell starting in the backline (with Rivers, Frawley, Warnock, Garland, Grimes, and Bruce).

I see all three polls as synergistic and, therefore, questions in this poll are affected by answers in another.

The Jamar question is an interesting one, as I also see him rotating through the forward line. But the fact is - he will take the first bounce in 2010 and a number of bounces thereafter. He is our best ruck.

No poll is perfect, but I really would like posters to complete it and leave their reservations in a post. I do, and others, take notice.

I don't claim this to be an exact science, I just want to know what my fellow Demons' supporters are thinking - re: next year.

[45HG 1,549]

No Grimes for the middle rp?

I feel as though on any given day upwards of 9 players will play a midfielder role, so 6 is a bit limiting. However, this thread did push me to make my own best 22, so thank you

[rpfc 28,539]

Why wasn't Sylvia named?

C: DAVEY, JONES,SYLVIA

FOLL: JAMAR, SCULLY, MOLONEY

McDonald and Martin on the bench. Jones to the bench if we get Ball.

Sylvia is named as a forward in these series of polls. I see him as a HFF that will also run through the middle.

I could have added a question on whether we see him as a mid or a fwd but this is an exercise to nail down the 'best 22' and Sylvia is definitely that.

Just off a HFF...

No Grimes for the middle rp?

I feel as though on any given day upwards of 9 players will play a midfielder role, so 6 is a bit limiting. However, this thread did push me to make my own best 22, so thank you

With Grimes seemingly accepted (although I realise it isn't definitive) as starting in the backline I didn't add him as a variable in the midfield.

Although, as I said in the OP, he will run through the midfield.

The rotations will be increased - again as I said in the OP - with Sylvia, Bate, and Green going through the middle from the forward line and Grimes, Bruce, and 'McDonald/Bennell' from the backline.

6 is a bit limiting

This is a very deliberate exercise, and one of the things that make my eyes roll is when a poster makes his 'best 22' with far too many mids. Mids in the FP, mids on HBF...

It's like the AA team...

I want to see a little balance, and that is what this about: get your forwards sorted, set out who is in defence, and then pick your best midfielders from there.

[DeeSpencer 25,723]

This is a very deliberate exercise, and one of the things that make my eyes roll is when a poster makes his 'best 22' with far too many mids. Mids in the FP, mids on HBF...

It's like the AA team...

I want to see a little balance, and that is what this about: get your forwards sorted, set out who is in defence, and then pick your best midfielders from there.

I would argue that the most balanced teams have 7 defenders, 5 permanent forwards, 2 rucks and 8 through the middle. But making it tough does make it more interesting. I'd be inclined to pick 7 mids in my best 22 (2 rucks, 7 defenders, 6 forwards), but have Green (strangely missing in most Demon peoples mind at the moment but I'm sure he's in the forward line) and Sylvia as part of the forward line.

I'd go McDonald, Moloney, Davey, Jones, Morton, Scully, Trengove. Disappointed to leave out Lynden Dunn, I do like him as a tagger. A Grimes/McDonald half back and midfield switch might be a good ploy for several of our games.

Was Ricky Petterd in the forward line set up, did I not read him in the options.

[sylvias dukes 9]

WTF is going on with this Mcdonald not being in our best 22. Also he will not prevent the progress of the young players

[... 11]

It could have made it wide-ranging and nuanced but it would have been untenable.

The McDonald/Bennell situation is a flow on from the 'Backward Thinking' poll in which a majority of posters saw McDonald in the midfield and not in the backline, and a plurality of posters wished to see Bennell starting in the backline (with Rivers, Frawley, Warnock, Garland, Grimes, and Bruce).

I see all three polls as synergistic and, therefore, questions in this poll are affected by answers in another.

The Jamar question is an interesting one, as I also see him rotating through the forward line. But the fact is - he will take the first bounce in 2010 and a number of bounces thereafter. He is our best ruck.

No poll is perfect, but I really would like posters to complete it and leave their reservations in a post. I do, and others, take notice.

I don't claim this to be an exact science, I just want to know what my fellow Demons' supporters are thinking - re: next year.

Can't disagree with any of that.

Your set up of these polls reminds me of the naming of Swan on a half forward flank in the AA team! And no Le Cras!

I must also commend you on the use of the word 'plurality'. So seldom one has the opportunity to use that word in a sentence.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Good Poll.

Alot more informative than a simple yes no choice to a question biased to the author's desired outcome.

[Nasher 33,616]

You spelled "Bartram" "Batram" again. That annoys me, so I fixed it

[H_T 3,049]

Good Poll.

Alot more informative than a simple yes no choice to a question biased to the author's desired outcome.

Couldn't help yourself, could you ?

This poll is indeed informative. But I suppose that's what you get when you ask a million questions relating to positions all over the ground, rather than people's opinions on one player in particular.

Let's not detract from this poll, if that is your intention RR.

Well done rpfc.

edit: -

Rp, of the six questions asked, questions 3 and 4 don't refer to the "start of 2010" like the other questions do. Is that just meant to be that way for the poll.... ? Just thought I would ask.

Edited November 4, 2009 by High Tower

[rpfc 28,539]

WTF is going on with this Mcdonald not being in our best 22. Also he will not prevent the progress of the young players

I agree that the Captain should play, I was eager to know how others felt. I also wanted to know whether they saw McDonald play in the midfield or defence.

Note: Whoever made that 3 post into one post with 3 quotes - Thanks. I can't get the hang of quoting more than one post, unless it is just cutting and pasting and wrapping in quote tags. And if that is what I should do - that's a lot of work...

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Couldn't help yourself, could you ?

This poll is indeed informative. But I suppose that's what you get when you ask a million questions relating to positions all over the ground, rather than people's opinions on one player in particular.

Let's not detract from this poll, if that is your intention RR.

SNAP. Too easy by half.

You are the only detraction here HT. I did say it was a good poll. Move on

[H_T 3,049]

SNAP. Too easy by half.

Confirmation of your intention.

[rpfc 28,539]

Rp, of the six questions asked, questions 3 and 4 don't refer to the "start of 2010" like the other questions do. Is that just meant to be that way for the poll.... ? Just thought I would ask.

The 'start of 2010' thing applies more to the other questions.

Questions 3 and 4 are 'over the season' questions - who plays the most in 2010.

With the other questions I wanted to know who people think will start as 2nd ruck (some might say we have a diferent ruck pair by the end of the season), whether Junior will start in the AFL (some will say injury or form will push him out by the end of the season), whether Scully and Trengove will start in the AFL (they, of course, will play in 2010, but I wanted to know whether posters thought they should start there), and where McDonald will start in 2010 (as a mid, as a defender, out of the team - it may change by the end of the season).

I think that makes sense...

[rpfc 28,539]

You spelled "Bartram" "Batram" again. That annoys me, so I fixed it

Thakyou for that, Primary Administrator.

[H_T 3,049]

The 'start of 2010' thing applies more to the other questions.

Questions 3 and 4 are 'over the season' questions - who plays the most in 2010.

With the other questions I wanted to know who people think will start as 2nd ruck (some might say we have a diferent ruck pair by the end of the season), whether Junior will start in the AFL (some will say injury or form will push him out by the end of the season), whether Scully and Trengove will start in the AFL (they, of course, will play in 2010, but I wanted to know whether posters thought they should start there), and where McDonald will start in 2010 (as a mid, as a defender, out of the team - it may change by the end of the season).

I think that makes sense...

Yes it does. Thanks.

[Viney Vidi Vici 148]

These polls are just proving to me how many players we're going to have on the fringes by the end of this year. Theres lots of players we've given time to over the last couple of years, and that people think has a chance of making it (Jetta, Bennell, Maric, Dunn etc) that aren't going to get a regular look-in in our best 22. List management is going to be interesting over the next couple of years.

[beelzebub 23,380]

This probably wont surprise any ...however if McDonald is not actually in the best 22 come the start of round one...why does he get an auto leg up ?? Are we now going to perpetuate a maxim..of 'the "nearly best " to play.?

If he is..then fine. if he isnt Im not sure that gives the right message. All players need to earn their spot...captain or no captain. Having said that he is amongst our best run-withs..( when and if fit ) I can see him either playing tag roles or spending some time on the pine. He will need to be managed well. Oll Junior is a much admired quieter achiever. Just not convinced he will be in the top 22 all year. Quite a few champing at the bit...do we deny them game time. Bails is all about getting games into them..only one way to do that.

Not sure the directives of some questions work as i dont think Davey will be part of any starting midfield..yet I couldnt not answer the last question ( I didnt answer yes to both )

6 isnt enough to limit within the bounds of the mids really...but if thats your intent..I'll play along.

[rpfc 28,539]

6 isnt enough to limit within the bounds of the mids really...but if thats your intent..I'll play along.

I have said a few times - Sylvia, Bate, Green, Bruce, Grimes, and 'McDonald/Bennell' will run through the middle from the forward line or back line.

I think that Davey, Moloney, Morton, Jones, Sylvia, Bate, Green, Bruce, Grimes, Scully, Trengove, and one of McDonald and Bennell are enough legs to run through the middle. That's 12 players rotating through all areas of the ground and the bench. Leaving 10 spots for two rucks, 4 set forwards (Watts, Wonna, Jurrah, and one of Miller/Petterd), and 4 set defenders (Frawley, Rivers, Warnock, and Garland).

I think it's a decent compromise.

I also didn't want to see blatant poor balancing of a team to fit in as many mids as possible ie. 1 ruckman, Blease on a HFF, Davey in a FP, etc

Note: Davey in a FP is disengenous because he will spend more time in the midfield than in a pocket so it is not a balanced 22.